When does adolescent arrogance re: music disappear?

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Or does it?

I say this because I am 17 and have a friend of the same age who thinks pop=manufactured=crap, "dance" has no instruments thus crap, rap has no instruments thus crap, someone who sells lots must be good (i know the opposite is just as ridiculous), dismisses anything that doesn't sound like the six or so bands he likes (Pearl Jam, REM, etc..) as terrible, dismisses stuff that does sound like the six or so bands he likes as terrible because his friends told him to, moving fingers on a fret fast = greatest musical skill ever, twiddling knobs/scratching records=not a skill to and so on

I believe I stopped thinking along those lines at 14, but my friend doesn't look like he's going to grow out of it. He has a brother about 5 or 6 years in a (crap) metal band who seems to think the same way. Should I expect him to grow out of it? Is it a good or bad thing if he doesn't? What do those beliefs reflect anyway: poppism? rockism? proto-hipsterism? assholism?

I might sound like a snob saying all this but the guy is a complete fascist who feels the need to offer his ignorant, narrow-minded opinion on any and all music (he claims to like classical because its "better than Linkin Park").

Any thoughts at all?

― Fergal Cussen (Burger), Friday, 14 February 2003 00:39 (twenty-three years ago)

it never disappears. we all have our own arrogances.

― gaz (gaz), Friday, 14 February 2003 00:43 (twenty-three years ago)

it becomes grey panther arrogance, and is thus justified

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 14 February 2003 00:44 (twenty-three years ago)

look on this board for yer answer.

(in other words -- some never outgrow it)

― Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 14 February 2003 00:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think these kind of adolescent strongly-held beliefs about musical value really have anything do with any kind of thought-through ideology. Rather I would guess that his reaction to music that he does and doesn't like is a visceral and immediate one. A certain kind of music sounds good to him; therefore, it's cool. Or, it's cool; therefore, it sounds good to him. This usually happens in adolescence when someone is in the process of constructing an adult identity that they latch on to certain role models in an almost obsessive way. The rock stars he likes probably fulfill that role for him. (I hope that doesn't sound condescending - I was an adolescent too once.)

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 February 2003 00:48 (twenty-three years ago)

the only thing that annoys me is when someone says a style or genre isn't music, or isn't "real music". it's a pretty arrogant statement. other than that, there's nothing i think people should have to grow out of. some people definitely don't outgrow some of the attitudes described above, but it doesn't really bother me.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 14 February 2003 00:51 (twenty-three years ago)

(someone on ile had a story abt how his dad bought him a bunch of bert and ernie valentines to give out in second grade, only everyone laughed that he was still into bert and ernie, so he went home and was mean to his dad about it EVEN THOUGH HE SECRETLY STILL LIKED BERT AND ERNIE)

(i think this story explains everything ever anywhere kinda)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 14 February 2003 00:54 (twenty-three years ago)

It bothers me massively, crushingly at times, it's like the eternal struggle. I'm not sure why I can't just let it go but I sometimes feel as much as writing it's my job to make morons of all these people, it's a constant stress but I suppose you don't need to be a great writer to be a good preacher.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 February 2003 01:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Tell the truth, Mark, that someone was you, wasn't it?

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 14 February 2003 01:04 (twenty-three years ago)

NO I HATE BERT AND ERNIE I HATE THEM I'VE ALWAYS HATED THEM SHUT UP SHUT UP YOU'RE THE ONE THAT LIKES THEM YOU NOT ME I HATED THEM SINCE I WZ BORN u r a POOPIEHEAD I HATE YOU

― bert-and-ernie lover (mark s), Friday, 14 February 2003 01:07 (twenty-three years ago)

That's not adolescent arrogance, it's simply ignorance.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 14 February 2003 01:08 (twenty-three years ago)

hi fergus,

ideally you shouldn't care about what he thinks about your music. if you are true friends, you will accept him the way he is.

i recommend an open dialogue about what you like about music and why. you seem rather MATURE for a 17 year old so this is ENTIRELY PLAUSIBLE.

but your worst fear may be that your friend who is narrow minded will guiltily REALIZE THE ERROR OF HIS NARROW MINDED WAYS ON A MUSIC BULLETIN BOARD and try desperately to reverse his ways however possible, including lashing out against the music he earlier championed... blindly convincing himself that THE MUSIC HE CHAMPIONED WAS STUPID rather than realizing that HE WAS STUPID for championing it so.

― gygax!, Friday, 14 February 2003 01:17 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, he sounds like an utter boob.....although he's right about classical music; it IS better than Linkin Park. But then again, so is silence.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 14 February 2003 01:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Let him like music for his own reasons... If you try to force him to change his views and he is not willing to do so, morally you'll be no better than he is.

― Curtis Stephens, Friday, 14 February 2003 01:30 (twenty-three years ago)

he claims to like classical because its "better than Linkin Park"

I've heard of worse rationales. Do people claim to like classical music to get someone into bed?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 14 February 2003 02:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Only "Bolero".

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Friday, 14 February 2003 02:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Adolescent arrogance about music disappears when you cease to be an adolescent and become an adult.

Then it become adult arrogance about music, obv.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 14 February 2003 09:51 (twenty-three years ago)

i still love bert and ernie too

― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 14 February 2003 09:59 (twenty-three years ago)

there's a 17-year old who listens to rem and pearl jam?!!!

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 14 February 2003 10:05 (twenty-three years ago)

... Never had it. Which is what bothered me: This constant self-criticism, downplaying my taste/choices, is sth that stood in the way of complete enjoyment. Only rarely did I feel justified about my choices.

― nathalie (nathalie), Friday, 14 February 2003 10:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I know a whole load of people older than 17 who still have that My Six Bands Are Better Than All That Other Shit thing going on. I was emphatically still an asshole when I was 17. And 18. I suspect I still might be, but I won't know until I'm 20. I think I've still got the thing gygax mentioned to some extent as well, and suspect that one day I'll go back and actually realise that all the indie rock I usd to swear by and am now embarrassed and irritated by is actually REALLY GOOD AFTER ALL.

― Ferg (Ferg), Friday, 14 February 2003 22:10 (twenty-three years ago)

(i found mark's 2nd hand anecdote really poignant, if i think about it i even get a little choked up)

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 14 February 2003 22:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah agreed Mitch, it is kinda crushing.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 15 February 2003 01:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I just realised that the post makes it sound like the stuf he hates is Pearl Jam. That is the stuff he likes.

― Fergal Cussen (Burger), Saturday, 15 February 2003 12:43 (twenty-three years ago)

yes, i too didn't like the way The Muppets pretty much ditched Ernie and particularly Bert when they got their own gig (Ernie & Bert should have been the critics in the opera box imo)

'i love music' is snoop puppy donny style

― george gosset (gegoss), Saturday, 15 February 2003 22:39 (twenty-three years ago)

The Bert & Ernie story was from Chris V., IIRC.

My Bert & Ernie are Oasis. Who are all of yours?

― felicity (felicity), Saturday, 15 February 2003 23:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Your friend is doomed. DOOMED!!

― original bgm, Sunday, 16 February 2003 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I second --Tad. Some people just can't shake that puritanical analog
musical bullshit. Furg, tell your friend almost every album your friend worships has been recorded, mixed, and mastered on a Computer. That might shut him up for a day or so.

― Hayden (Hayden), Sunday, 16 February 2003 02:27 (twenty-three years ago)

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