CD reissues that are actually worth buying

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prompted by a comment in the Cocteaus thread. what cd reissues are actually worthwhile getting, even if you own the older cd version? i'm not talking so much about cd reissues which include rarities, b-sides, etc. (like all the bowie stuff). i'm thinking more all along the lines of the recent reissue of remastered Rolling Stones CDs (like Aftermath or Beggar's Banquet), which sound much better than their original CD issues.

Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 16 February 2003 00:42 (twenty-three years ago)

as i also said on the Cocteau thread, another example of an artist whose reissued CDs are better than the originals is Frank Zappa. the original CD issues of we're only in it for the money was notorious -- FZ essentially used mid-eighties musicians to re-record over the tracks laid down by the original Mothers. (he also claimed that the masters were in awful shape, and he had to do it anyway). anyway, better versions of the master were "found" sometime shortly before Zappa died and the latest CD version of WOITFTM pretty much restored the original Mothers. another FZ botch was you are what it is, whose original CD version was disasterous.

Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 16 February 2003 00:45 (twenty-three years ago)

john fahey's america

jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 16 February 2003 00:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Like I mentioned on that other thread, the only re-MASTERED cd I've really been blown away by was RAW POWER by Iggy & the Stooges, which boasted a much different sound than the coke-up Bowie production of the original. If I remember correctly, there was some Zeppelin box set about a decade ago that boasted a dubious re-mastering by Jimmy Page....


I believe it was this one.....http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002IQ1.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

....that totally changed the sonic character of the tracks therein....i.e. an re-mastering that backfired (it should be noted that it was followed a few years later by yet another remasteing that appeased the purists).

Beyond that, I've stopped being suckered in by re-issues unless there is some appended tracks that were heretofore unavailable (and even then, sometimes it's not worth it). There are several albums that suffer from shoddy production that could use a re-mastering (FIRE DANCES by Killing Joke springs immediately to mind -- way too treble-heavy, no bass at all....much like AND JUSTICE FOR ALL by Metallica), but as a general rule, remasterd reissues just seem like an underhanded manouver to siphon (syphon?) more funds out of the devoted music consumer (as whose ears are sophisticated enough -- and we're not talking about dedicated audiophiles, but rather the average John and Joan Q. Public -- to really pick out subtle sonic differences heightened in the new mix.)

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 16 February 2003 00:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Is 'remastering' sometimes just a euphemism for remixing? Why does mastering affect the sound so much anyway?. If I was a producer I'd just want the sodding masterers to copy the sound I had made onto a disc. What is what is all this 'mastering' shit?

Sorry, I don't know anything.

N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 16 February 2003 01:01 (twenty-three years ago)

another example of an artist whose reissued CDs are better than the originals is Frank Zappa

Are the reissues blank?

paul cox (paul cox), Sunday, 16 February 2003 01:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Meow!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 16 February 2003 01:31 (twenty-three years ago)

The Peter Gabriel remasters are lovely.

Hayden (Hayden), Sunday, 16 February 2003 02:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Being a Cocteaus fan I feel foolish asking this but what are these reissues of which people speak? Just re-releases of same albums? I find it amusing if Guthrie has done any remixing, based on his comment years ago that he thought remixing his own work was crap because it was like "eating something, having a shit and then eating your shit". Such a charming young man =)

Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 16 February 2003 02:19 (twenty-three years ago)

nick - mastering an LP meant simply taking the final tape mix and cutting the master disk for all subsequent pressings. it was up to the cutting technician to make it sound as good as possible via their knowledge of the lathe and the laying down of the cut.

current digital mastering goes further - it takes the final mix and tweaks all the tracks so that they sound good next to each other. it also allows any fixing up of dull final mixes and so on. i'd say that at least 50% of the sound of most recent releases is due to mastering.

re-mastering, initially, digitises whatever analog source material is available. usually some sort of noise reduction is then performed on the whole thing because tape, cassette or whatever is a bit hissy. and finally the standard digital mastering techniques are applied to some degree or another, usually not so much.

i'll take a good remastered cd against any medium. i was never fond of vinyl because you have to take such good care of the artifact else it easily gets scratched and, to my ears, any cd sounds as good.

as for great remasters, the best i've heard in recent times have been the 3 sock cover Henry Cow records. not only did they restore the original mixes (2 of the initial cd releases were remixed by the group) but they sound crisp and luscious, totally enhancing my love of them. the first one - Leg End - was actually digitised from an original Japanese vinyl pressing that had never been played (the original master tapes had been lost).

phil turnbull (philT), Sunday, 16 February 2003 03:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks for that but could you elaborate on what you mean in these two sentences (sorry):

it takes the final mix and tweaks all the tracks so that they sound good next to each other.

i'd say that at least 50% of the sound of most recent releases is due to mastering.

N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 16 February 2003 03:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Every reissue LTM has done is worth buying, oh yes

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Sunday, 16 February 2003 03:44 (twenty-three years ago)

The reissue of Slanted and Enchanted is the most worthwhile purchase I've made in a long time, reissue or not.

I think Ryko is still printing the expanded editions of early Costello albums, and those are great to have. Out of print, sadly, are the expanded Ryko reissues of the early Bowie albums, which I recommend hunting down.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Ryko's Costello albums are out of print as well, but Rhino picked them up and is making them double-disc affairs with even more booty tacked onto the end.

paul cox (paul cox), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:14 (twenty-three years ago)

it takes the final mix and tweaks all the tracks so that they sound good next to each other. i'd say that at least 50% of the sound of most recent releases is due to mastering

the mastering engineer will use a bank of analogue and digital equipment (equalisation, compression, volume, etc) to change the sonic characteristics of each track. comparisons are made between each track and the tracks that adjoin it (and the release as a whole) to ensure that they sound similar to one another and that, unless specifically required, transition from song to song is barely apparent.

if the mix of all tracks is good then very little work is required at the mastering stage. in any case, almost all current major releases will have a large amount of time and money spent on making the mastering as good as possible.

hope that explains it.

phil turnbull (philT), Sunday, 16 February 2003 06:58 (twenty-three years ago)

The two remaster series I've been really pleased with are the Byrds and Blue Oyster Cult reissues. The Byrds reissues especially, as the bonus tracks are actually worthwhile. My fave of the whole series is the reissue of Notorious Byrds Brothers which I prefer over my original vinyl - kinda surprising since it's so hard to enhance any of Gary Usher's work without completely wrecking it.

The BOC reissues are a no brainer. The first CDs just rocked. The reissues ROCK.

Chris Barrus (xibalba), Sunday, 16 February 2003 07:53 (twenty-three years ago)

tad, whats the deal with the 2 diff versions of "only in it for the money"???

chaki (chaki), Sunday, 16 February 2003 07:57 (twenty-three years ago)

The BOC reissues are a no brainer. The first CDs just rocked. The reissues ROCK

The bonus tracks on Secret Treaties are off tha hook! "Mommy" is a classic!! A sick Meltzer lyric that shoulda made the original lp. A great album, made that much greater...

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Sunday, 16 February 2003 08:02 (twenty-three years ago)

tad, whats the deal with the 2 diff versions of "only in it for the money"???

the original cd issue of we're only in it for the money was remastered by frank zappa. he replaced the original bass and drums (and maybe some other instrumentation) with then-current Zappa bandmates (Chad Wackerman instead of Jimmy Carl Black; and Scott Thunes instead of Roy Estrada), as well as restoring portions that had been censored upon its original sixties. based on what i know and read, Zappa was pretty slippery re why he did this -- at one point he claimed that the master recordings were badly deteriorated and unsuitable for digitalization; at another he just came out and said that he didn't like the original Mothers' playing and wanted to replace it with the more technically-proficient Eighties bandmembers. the latter is probably correct, since woitftm was "remastered" again in 1995 after he died, and restored to its original recording.

i also know that Zappa pretty much junked the original orchestration for ruben and the jets, but since that one's only really for Zappa freaks who owned the original version vinyl, i guess no-one minded as much (except the Zappa freaks). the only copy of ruben i have is the remastered CD, which definitely sounds very Eighties (and not at all Sixties). the 1990 vinyl-to-CD you are what you is was badly remastered because apparently its remastering was done when Zappa was really sick from his cancer, and didn't exert any quality control at all over it (and it's real bad in spots -- very obvious drops in sound and equalization, an overall muddy mix).

Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 16 February 2003 08:39 (twenty-three years ago)

As said earlier in the thread, mastering wrt vinyl is typically a case of getting the master tape onto the lacquer with as few compromises as possible (i.e. those forced by the iniquities of the vinyl itself), and maybe a little additional, creative EQing/compression if the cutting engineer feels s/he's doing you a favour.

Digital mastering *could* involve nothing so much as pressing the record button, seeing as the target medium doesn't have the limitations of vinyl and isn't going to throw a wobbly if you give it something with great flapping stereo sub-bass. However, mastering in the digital domain thesedays seems to involve a great deal of effort to promote a sense of coherence between successive tracks, or (less kindly) to make everything sound as loud as everything else. This can, at its crudest, just be a case of brick-walling everything above a certain level (i.e. compressing with an infinity:1 ratio above, say, -8dB and applying 7.9dB make-up gain; result = all transients squashed but everything sounds LOUD and FULL), or can involve subtler application of multi-band compression and EQ to nudge the sound towards a particular flavour.

When I do mastering for other people it's (thankfully) compilations of already well-recorded and mastered material which I tinker with as little as possible - just a bit of soft-limiting to balance out the perceived levels of successive tracks, and some attention paid to duration of inter-track gaps.

RE-mastering is usually a case of going back to the earliest-generation stereo mixdown tape available and getting a sympathetic pair of ears to caress the material into hi-res digital for dithering down to CD. If the stories are to be believed, many 80s CD issues of 60s/70s LPs were made from whatever nth-gen tape was to hand, frequently from one already RIAA-EQed for vinyl, and done with the relatively primitive equipment of the day (ADCs struggling to reach 14-bit precision). Of course, the counterargument would be to say that a decent digital transfer done in 1988 at least wouldn't bear the scars of a further 15 years of tape degradation, which a fancy 24/96k transfer done now would.

Remastering *can* indeed be a case of merely beefing up the low end for 00s audiences, remixing from the original multi-tracks (obviously this has to be done for the reissues that are now appearing in 5.1 surround), or any amount of cavalier dicking about. You just don't know.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 16 February 2003 17:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Michael, I'll give you a pound if you just REMOVE all inter-track gaps. We haven't got all day.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 16 February 2003 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm working on software that'll remove all inter-disc gaps too. A never-ending cacophony that you can't switch off. Returning mastering to its true source: The Master in Doctor Who.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 16 February 2003 18:16 (twenty-three years ago)


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