Absolutely Unforgivable...

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Maybe I'm completely mistaken, but I'd like to think I'm a reasonably open minded guy. I'm generally able to conduct myself like a mature adult when discussing otherwise sensitive topics such as politics, sex and religion, without making snap judgments or sweeping condemnations. HOWEVER, because my life is also governed by a pathological obsession with meaningless trivia, I tend to take some otherwise insignificant matters ENTIRELY TOO SERIOUSLY. For example, even if I'm connecting on an intellectual level and am engaged in a thoughtful discourse/exchange of ideas with someone and suddenly find out that they're a fan of......say.....Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston or maybe Puddle of Mudd, I INSTANTLY AND IRREVOCABLY LOSE ALL SEMBLANCE OF RESPECT FOR THEM! There is no disucssion. It ends there.
If you suffer from simillar blindsighted prejudices, who are the deal breakers for you? Which artists will make you write someone off without hope of redemption?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 12:23 (twenty-three years ago)

First person to say "Killing Joke" gets yawned at.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 12:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, but Alex, what if said individual is a huge fan of Killing Joke and you happen to visit their home, only to find a lifesize cut out of Mariah/Whitney/Puddle?

― cybele (cybele), Monday, 31 March 2003 12:37 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, and you you also connect with them on an intellectual level and someone with whom you can have a thoughtful discourse/exchange of ideas...

― cybele (cybele), Monday, 31 March 2003 12:38 (twenty-three years ago)

pardon the grammar...my post is missing words. i think you get the point though...

― cybele (cybele), Monday, 31 March 2003 12:43 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't quite go to Alex's extreme but i'm always a bit disappointed when my girlfriend declares her love for the new single by Somthing Corporate, Puddle Of Mudd, Murder Dolls or some other american corp-rawk - maybe its more my problem than hers, but nah fuck that, she's wrong!

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 31 March 2003 12:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Now, irrational prejudice is never, NEVER a good thing, but I've got a bullet for everyone that's ever stood in a crowd and sung "One Way" by The Levellers.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:02 (twenty-three years ago)

if said individual is a huge fan of Killing Joke and you happen to visit their home, only to find a lifesize cut out of Mariah/Whitney/Puddle?

The unlikelihood of said scenario is tantamount to the fracturous merging of matter and anti-matter and would surely result in a cataclysm of super-nova proportions.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:03 (twenty-three years ago)

I know there's SOMEONE on ILM to prove you wrong, Alex.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Why not make a band like Something Corporate the basis for intellectual conversation? Instead of dismissing, just question why? At the same time, they might wonder why you like, I dunno...The Clash, John Cage...I find it interesting why a person is drawn to certain kinds of music, no matter what. Even a band whose very name was likely chosen by a committee. Was it the radio, print, or a music video which drew them to a band like Something Corporate? Sorry, I just *really* like that example.

On a hypocritical note, I'd have to say Creed. There is something very wrong with Creed. Then again, this is coming from a self-professed fan of Barry Manilow.

― Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd have to say Creed. There is something very wrong with Creed.

You're damn right there is, and that's precisely my point.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:42 (twenty-three years ago)

the lighthouse family...

― robin (robin), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Y'know, I got over this snobbery about 6 years ago, when I realized that there are some really great people who just plain have shit taste.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:47 (twenty-three years ago)

But what if a band like Creed were stripped of their image? Would we still hate them? I'm not so sure...

What if Mariah was busking in a subway station?

― Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I kid myself that I've simillarly evolved (I did, after all, marry a woman who owns several Van Morrison discs and has a strenuously worriesome tolerance for Simply Red), but it's just a shallow, flimsy facade. I'd still be dumbstruck and sickened if I spotted a Jennifer Lopez or Shania Twain album in the collection of a person I otherwise respected.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 13:57 (twenty-three years ago)

the dealbreaker for me has to be "Gangster's Paradise" by Coolio. i was at a party where someone put it on, and everyone there were standing around in a ridiculous circle rapping along with every word. i still shudder when i think of it, and now that i remember, i have not spoken more than two words to any of them since said incident.

― Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:03 (twenty-three years ago)

It would seem that Planet Janet, found here,

http://www.eccentricity.net/janet/Passions.html

is done by someone who professes her love for both killing joke and mariah carey. And I know how little this adds to the discussion, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

― Jonathan, Monday, 31 March 2003 14:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Goddamn.....I can feel the very fibre of the universe unravelling as I type this. THE CENTER CANNOT HOLD!GOOD FUCKING CHRIST, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL HUMAN LIFE TAKE COVER..IT'S ALL GOING TO BLOW SKY HIGH!

I, of course, will be firing off a vitriol-fueled e-mail to this infidel with all speed.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Ahh, but doesn't this email show that you are willing to start a discussion with someone who hates one of the "unforgiveable" bands? Does this mean that people can redeem themselves? Or are you writing her to ask that she destroy all copies of her killing joke albums, as she doesn't deserve them?

― Jonathan, Monday, 31 March 2003 14:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe she'll send you a mix-tape in return.

― Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually, looking over the whole list, she's got great taste, I'd think!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, I'm guessing that the Mariah is a guilty pleasure. Or maybe the Killing Joke is. heh.

― Jonathan, Monday, 31 March 2003 14:28 (twenty-three years ago)

For me, it isn't a question of what they like, so much as how much... I can be friends with anyone .. but if they own less than 500 recordings, I do not engage them (or humor them) in discussions about music - becaue they obviously don't really care.

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't find her e-mail address, so apparently no discussion will ensue. I was merely going to inform, nay EXHORT AT her that she shames and sullies Killing Joke by invoking their good name in a list that also includes pabulum like Carey, Cyndi Lauper and -- good god -- Bif Naked and Savage Garden.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Pink Floyd and Pavement.
I, for the life of me, cannot understand what critics and chinstroking fan-oids see or hear in this shapeless glop. Really. I don't. Someone please explain it to me.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't have specific bands that trigger it I doubt, but I do know what you mean Alex. For me it's something someone says, like I don't care about what people like but I really hate if someone says something that shows they can't understand people appreciating music or whatever. Anything about "manufactured rubbish" would usually make me think the person was a bit stupid, I guess you have to appreciate that being at college now this sort of thing is commonplace.

I remember at school this massive muscular smelly guy in my class was telling me one day how he liked Savage Garden, I just found it fucking hilarious.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:35 (twenty-three years ago)

For me, I don't think it's so much what they listen to that bothers me, but it's more their attitude. I've met Limp Bizkit who act like they know a lot about music, though two minutes in you realize they know very little. What's worse is when they act like their band, like limp bizkit, creed, or nickelback, is better than other bands, but they have no argument to back themselves up. It's those kind of people where I just feel like walking away from the conversation.

As for the muscular thing, the best thing I ever saw was years ago when I was working in a grocery store. These two guys were waiting for their girlfriends to get back to the car, so they got out, leaned on the car (it was some kind of slick sports car), took off their shirts and turned up the music. It was some cheesy techno thing like What Is Love by Haddaway. They couldn't have looked more pathetic if they tried.

― Jonathan, Monday, 31 March 2003 14:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Except "What is Love" is a pretty good song, so good on 'em.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:58 (twenty-three years ago)

actually, i find it very hard to relate to anyone who enjoys the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. I feel that anyone with a modicum of musical sense would see right through that chum but this past month, I have been let down in disheartening new ways.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:25 (twenty-three years ago)

All-Beatles-all-the-time people.

― original bgm, Monday, 31 March 2003 15:32 (twenty-three years ago)

its difficult to take most ppl who like radiohead seriously.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I must admit I find this a little hard to swallow. What if they own 600 recordings that are all crap--say, a combination of Rick Astley, Celine Dion, and NKOTB (apologies to fans of the aforesaid)? On the other hand, what if they own 300 recordings of the most incredibly stimulating and varied artists ever? How does the lack of volume render their knowledge or opinions about music inferior to your own?

Some extremely knowledgeable people simply can't afford to spend the approximately $5000 or so to build up a substantial collection--and others may not feel it necessary to 'hoard' albums they don't listen to regularly. I think this is the most ridiculous method of determining who "really cares" about music that I have ever heard. Defend it if you are able.

― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:52 (twenty-three years ago)

All-Beatles-all-the-time people.

They're sort've a strange demographic on their own. One of my colleagues here at work is an ALL-BEATLES-ALL-THE-TIME person (she goes to Rutles conventions, for god's sakes.) Now, I know I'm not one to chuck stones at fanatics ("Mr.Pot? Call on line one for you from a Mr.Kettle!"), but there's something vaguely disquieting about folks who embrace the Beatles -- and solely the Beatles -- so fervently ....sort've like Sc*entolog*sts and religious fundamentalists.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have never met a person who likes just the beatles.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean its diff to imagine anyone liking one thing and one thing only.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Some extremely knowledgeable people simply can't afford to spend the approximately $5000 ..

Yeah, true... ..but if they had 600 records that were "all crap" - they would at least have a passion for it .. and would be interesting to talk with. (500 was hyperbole, by the way .. 80 might be more reasonable..) The quantity though indicates breadth and depth ... and it's only a minimum criterion. I'm specifically thinking of a guy I met who tried to foist his opinions about music on me - later to discover he owned only 15 records. Also, I'm thinking of someone who calls her taste "eclectic" because she listens to everything from Fleetwood Mac to Pure Prarie League. .. Not saying it's a "Deal Breaker" and I couldn't be friends with such a person .. just that I wouldn't try to talk with them about music.

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:15 (twenty-three years ago)

I knew someone was going to mention Celine Dion eventually.

I find that she's just about tolerable if you don't listen to her music, look at her or read or watch anything about her. Just pretend she's a disembodied name relating to no physical entity and pretend that you pronounce 'Celine' as 'Sea Lion'.

See, not so bad now?

― mei (mei), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Very uplifting. Although I like Lewis Black's description as, "The second most awful thing happening in a desert right now."

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex, her address is:

[email protected]

exhort away!

― mei (mei), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks, mei!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm specifically thinking of a guy I met who tried to foist his opinions about music on me - later to discover he owned only 15 records.

This is easier to accept. I was reading your post as a suggestion that understanding/enjoyment of music was directly correlated to the number of albums owned. I see that was the underlying idea, but it may be more valid as the "essential number" bar is lowered. I suppose this chap could download a lot and listen to great radio stations, but only 15 records does not suggest that music is much of a priority in anyone's life.

― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 31 March 2003 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Rutles conventions?!? I guess they're giving everyone conventions these days.

there's something vaguely disquieting about folks who embrace the Beatles -- and solely the Beatles -- so fervently ....sort've like Sc*entolog*sts and religious fundamentalists.

Yes, OTM! And this type of fan exists with other bands too. VH1 used to have a program about ULTIMATE FAN types who would own every minor variation of every release by a certain band (Motley Crue, ABBA, a couple others) and little else. Just watching them creeped me out. "When I'm in the office, I listen to Metallica, when I'm driving home I listen to Metallica, when I wake up, I listen TO METALLICA!"

But the Beatles variation is by far the most prevalent.

― original bgm, Monday, 31 March 2003 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I especially felt bad for their coworkers and family who no doubt would rather have a rectal examination than ever have ti listen to any of these songs again.

― original bgm, Monday, 31 March 2003 17:33 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, those "Ultimate Fan" shoes used to really depress me. I mean, yeah, I adore Killing Joke -- but I do listen to a bajillion other bands too.

Worse than that was the "Graveside Groupies" show, which featured truly sad bastard weeping abjectly at Shannon Hoon's grave and whatnot. Get lives.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

"Ultimate Fan" shoWs!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 17:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Ultimate Fan Shoes!!

― original bgm, Monday, 31 March 2003 17:41 (twenty-three years ago)

And I've never seen "Graveside Groupies" but it sounds classy.

― original bgm, Monday, 31 March 2003 17:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I used to be a total fucking music snob. I'm a lot better now, to the point that my only real musical turn-off is when someone likes Limp Bizkit. They represent basically everything I hate in music: extreme arrogance without corresponding talent, cock-rock cliches, self-aggrandizement, and worst of all, Fred Durst looks like the kind of guy who would beat the shit out of his wife, masturbate over her prone body and come all over her broken back. I fucking hate him and I fucking hate his fans. If I find out that the person I'm talking to actually likes the maggot, I quietly excuse myself and go somewhere private to vomit.

― justin s., Monday, 31 March 2003 18:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Dude, those shoes are Tootie! Britney is so derivative!

― dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 31 March 2003 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

hey justin, you can tell that about a person by just looking at him ? You should be working for the fbi or something. Jesus, maybe you do...

― kevin brady (groeuvre), Monday, 31 March 2003 18:14 (twenty-three years ago)

All-Beatles-all-the-time people.
Mod up Alan N. +1, Insightful.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:29 (twenty-three years ago)

God sent James Taylor to annoy me. That's the only reason he's on this earth.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 31 March 2003 20:51 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't want to contribute to this thread because it'll become apparent that i have no respect for anyone. whatsoever.

― di smith (lucylurex), Monday, 31 March 2003 21:07 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm also hecka-creeped out and instantly, violently repelled if someone's into "worship music" and any of the following: Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Billy O'Riley, Mike Savage, Sean Hannity, Robert Novak and the entirety of the Fox News Network.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 March 2003 22:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Its an old one and fortunately hasn't come up in a while but; anyone who claps along to the Steve Miller Band.

― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Monday, 31 March 2003 22:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Kevin, I wish I could tell if someone were an asshole just by looking at him. I would save me a lot of trouble in my personal life. However, Fred Durst just... I dunno... puts out this total "wife-beater" vibe to me. I had the misfortune of seeing him live at some random tour and he just radiated aggression and macho posturing. That, and I have this irrational dislike for people who always wear backward baseball caps.

― justin s., Monday, 31 March 2003 23:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Isn't radiating aggression and macho posturing the whole point of his act? Anyway, I used to totally judge people like this, oh you like so and so, your taste is crap and you're most likely and idiot, or at least so different from me there's no point talking to you. I'm better at that now I think. I was thinking, ok, so I watched the Mariah Carey film (what the hell was it called again?) thinking it would be campy or funny (it wasn't, but whatever), but then I thought oh I'd *never* watch a movie if Celine Dion made one never! But then I realized I'd totally watch a Celine Dion movie! I mean she's the worst ever! It would be great! (ok not great but you know). So I don't know where to draw the line. I know some people are kidding around here but if liking a band makes you an asshole, you probably have a few issues of your own.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 31 March 2003 23:32 (twenty-three years ago)

oh wow. I thought this thread was about unforgiveable artists, not fans. No, I have no beefs with fans ever for what they like. If I have a beef with their fanship, its usually because of why they like them.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 31 March 2003 23:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I have a beef with fans who take it personally when you don't like their precious ickle favourite band.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 31 March 2003 23:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Hootie And The Blowfish.

Does this count if the person in question is a really smokin' hot chick with a killer bod? Because as long as I'm gonna be shallow and write someone off for their taste in music, I'm gonna be equally shallow and give her a free pass if she's an uber-babe. Shallow is as shallow does...

― Davlo (Davlo), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 01:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex, I lose all respect for people with such shallow
criteria for respect AS aesthetic taste in music.
Or any other aesthetic choices - my reasons for
respecting/not respecting deal more with issues of
character.

Though true, if I find myself disagreeing with someone
constantly on matters of music, movies, etc. we are
probably not going to become close friends cause we just
won't have that much to talk about.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 07:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Ppl who refer to music purely adjectivally. As in "Put on something mellow" or "something rockin'" or worst of all "something weird". Anybody who doesn't share my monomaniacal rigour should be annihilated

― dave q, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 08:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I can now enjoy my wifes Van Morrison and Travis records w/o making a face. I still make the face when its that Lifehouse song.
BUT I took away the copy of Hootie Blowfish and disposed of it. Maturity or not I have limits

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 11:40 (twenty-three years ago)

I've never been able to detect much of a correlation between being a likeable character and having a strong interest in music or "good taste". But I have noticed a pretty strong correlation between having an obnoxious character and thinking highly of oneself on the grounds of (presumed) good taste.

― ArfArf, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Well thankya, Captain Humorless.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 13:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Girl Scout Heroin has a wife?! I have been thinking all this time that GSH is a girl(scout).

― Davlo (Davlo), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 20:56 (twenty-three years ago)

dave q otm once again

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 21:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I am muy macho yet in touch with my gay side

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 21:47 (twenty-three years ago)

MORFEEN!!

― Aaron A., Tuesday, 1 April 2003 21:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Girl scout heroin changes name to SplendidMullet.......hmmm thats better (touches nads)

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 22:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I remember when I taught Alex how to use the bold tags! How awesome! Anyway, on this issue - at first it was NO YOU SUCK I WILL NOT HANG OUT WITH YOU and then shortly thereafter (five minutes) it was 'well we can hang out but I will hold this against you constantly' and then several years down the road it turns into 'I guess that's okay as long as you don't make me listen to it all the time' and then finally 'Haha, your taste sure is awful, let's go out for a drink'

― Millar (Millar), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 22:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I want to see the buddy picture of Dave Q and Millar out on the road.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 00:36 (twenty-three years ago)

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