lee konitz

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so i was listening to 'ONCE' by company and Lee konitz playing in that context was just wonderful to hear. In the way he was so restrained, I guess, and yet being able to make contributions and so on (I suppose its quite easy to get this idea that to be able to live in that sort of environment you have to go for it and do the 'out' stuff and sax players who can play 'restrained' i guess don't want to know much abt free improv).

and that's even before we are getting to the tone he draws out of that alto (he is also on soprano and does a bit of drumming too, all fine stuff).

recommend...

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 6 July 2003 17:29 (twenty years ago) link

You're in luck, Julio - Verve have just this week re-released 'Motion', a fantastic 1961 alb that Konitz made with Elvin Jones (and a bassist whose name I can't recall) - incredible sustained improvisations, and that wonderfully dry, papery Konitz sound. Also search the mid-fifties duo alb he made w/ fellow Tristano disciple Warne Marsh, still available as a mid-price Atlantic disc. It has a fantastic black and white cover shot of Lee and Warne sharing a laugh together on what looks like a riverbank.

And oh yeah, 'The Birth of the Cool'...

Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 6 July 2003 18:33 (twenty years ago) link

excellent.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 6 July 2003 19:24 (twenty years ago) link

Search: Jimmy Guiffre. Especially the late 50's incarnation of the Jimmy Guiffre 3. I have a treasured cassette with Lee and Warne on one side, and Jimmy on the other, and it's seamless.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Sunday, 6 July 2003 21:34 (twenty years ago) link

lee konitz + martial solal - "star eyes" on hatHUT.

this is a live date from 1983. recommended.

vahid (vahid), Sunday, 6 July 2003 22:28 (twenty years ago) link

don't mind me, though, i'd recommend anything on hatHUT.

vahid (vahid), Sunday, 6 July 2003 22:29 (twenty years ago) link

haven't heard that vahid but the 74 date ["jazz a juan"] with solal is v. nice, solal needs more exposure for sure.

anyways
anything lee recorded with lennie tristano will be worth hearing, although the sound quality is often poor for such classic records as the toronto [53 i think] cd. the wonderfully warm yet acidic tone [tonewise he copied parker better than anyone, maybe bettered parker at what bird was trying to sound like] is superbly recorded on the "lennie tristano" lp of 1955 - lee leads and solos on 5 out of 9 cuts, i think, on that: all the things you are and you go to my head are so sweet/sharp. those are my favorite recordings by konitz, i think.

apart from birth of the cool lee had two other very important sessions in 1949: the "intuition" recordings with lennie, which are credited in retrospect with prefiguring or outright inventing free jazz; and lee's own first dates as a leader, "subconscious-lee" which is nearly more deserving of the title birth of the cool than the miles sessions, i think, because most cool jazz isn't so well-rehearsed and orchestrated as botc - lots of it sounds more like subconscious-lee, in some ways.

stan kenton's recordings are of course difficult to navigate with a straight face for many, but city of glass / this modern world is a great place to start.

i never felt lee's work with mulligan gelled too well, but i think he's having a great time on the mingus dates he was invited to in the 70s.

mig, Monday, 7 July 2003 01:47 (twenty years ago) link

well stan kenton lps simply vary widely in quality and style. one isn't guaranteed to like one if you've liked others. but "city of glass" (the cd reissue in particular) is one of the finest things i own, although i'm still unsure what role kenton himself played in the proceedings. it's a very scary set of music.

amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 7 July 2003 02:39 (twenty years ago) link

thanks all. masayuki takayanagi played a version of 'subconcious-lee' on live at moers 1980 and i enjoyed that.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 July 2003 12:03 (twenty years ago) link

what's the date of once, julio? the set on soprano i saw konitz do at company in the mid-80s was one of best/weirdest/loveliest perfs i ever saw by anyone: i wonder if this is the one?

mark s (mark s), Monday, 7 July 2003 12:19 (twenty years ago) link

it was from company week in 1987.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 July 2003 12:33 (twenty years ago) link

two weeks pass...
*revive*

''Verve have just this week re-released 'Motion', a fantastic 1961 alb that Konitz made with Elvin Jones (and a bassist whose name I can't recall) - incredible sustained improvisations, and that wonderfully dry, papery Konitz sound.''

got this last week. the name of the bassist is sonny dallas. beautiful improvisations and I think elvin Jones' playing keeps you on yr toes. I almost think he's gonna break the structure apart at times, he creates some wonderful moments of tension with Konitz and the bass is a wonderful link. At least that's what i got from the one listen so far.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 27 July 2003 21:23 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
Some of my favourite after 50 years or more are the Black Lion in '54 with perhaps the best of all the pianists- Ronnie Ball.this guy just suited the cool sounds they produced at that time and what a pity more wern't recorded. And what a master Ted Brown is- still may fav tenor since the 50's.

John Hicks, Friday, 26 September 2003 13:48 (twenty years ago) link

Sonny Dallas's bass playing on "Motion" is the most underrated recorded performance by a jazz artist I know. His playing is sublime.

ArfArf, Friday, 26 September 2003 15:04 (twenty years ago) link

Lee Konitz's Rebellious Jukebox in Wire is one of the best I've ever read, his honesty and passion were wonderful

Dadaismus (Dada), Saturday, 27 September 2003 14:41 (twenty years ago) link

yeah i liked that a lot but bcz it was just funny how he hated everything that was played (though, as i recall he sent a letter saying that the two tracks he liked were omitted from the feature).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 28 September 2003 12:09 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
Sounds like Gary Peacock was being the asshole, but it's still funny. I wonder what he and Matt Wilson are like as a rhythm section, since Matt is like the nicest guy ever. I really want to hear that duo album that he and Lee Konitz made.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 21:39 (twenty years ago) link

This was supposed to be on the Elvis Costello/Konitz thread. Shit.

Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 21:42 (twenty years ago) link

Has anybody heard the Tristano/Marsh/Konitz Mosaic box? I am totally unfamiliar with anything by Konitz outside of his playing on Birth Of The Cool, and it's been so long since I listened to that that I'd be hearing it totally afresh if I played it this evening.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
What a beautiful, beautiful man.

Saw him last night in two settings: a wonderful quartet with Baron, Gress and Frisell (holy shit Sundar!!! you are so right -- this guy might be the greatest living guitarist), and an awful duet with Paul Bley. Seriously: Paul Bley: FUCK YOU, you are an asshole. Fucking awful overplaying indulgent mofo. no wonder annette left your ass.

But man: KONITZ. What a tone. What an absolute TITAN of the alto.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 29 January 2005 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link

seriously dude, the more I think about it, it's like

1. Parker
2. Coleman
3 Konitz

EVERBOdY ELSE

Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 29 January 2005 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I really wanna hear that PSF solo disc he put out a few years back.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 29 January 2005 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Joey Baron is totally goofy but very likeable.

The encore was Frisell/Konitz duet and quite frankly I could live the rest of my days inside the music made by the two of them together. Almost wish the whole program was just that duet...

Stormy Davis (diamond), Saturday, 29 January 2005 21:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Sonny Dallas's bass playing on "Motion" is the most underrated recorded performance by a jazz artist I know. His playing is sublime.
I'm listening to it right now. What else has this guy played on?

Ken L (Ken L), Monday, 7 February 2005 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

six months pass...
Did John Hicks really post on this thread? Probably a different John Hicks.

I never did get a hold of any more records with Sonny Dallas on them. But one thing's for sure- he never drops the ball on Motion.

k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Hey, it looks like Lee is playing at the Jazz Standard starting tomorrow.

k/l (Ken L), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

GO!!!!

Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 03:47 (eighteen years ago) link

surprised i never posted on this thread.

rec: lone-lee.

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 08:42 (eighteen years ago) link

"...the more I think about it, it's like
1. Parker
2. Coleman
3 Konitz

EVERBOdY ELSE

-- Stormy Davis (electrifyingmoj...), January 29th, 2005."

You gotta go at least five deep: Johnny Hodges! Benny Carter!

Not Thaat Chuck, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 14:00 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...
No Cannonball Adderley?

Anyway, I've been really enjoying Subconscious-Lee. I couldn't parse this stuff when I was in jazz school for some reason, and even kind of turned my nose up at it. I had a big black/white jazz musician complex back then so that might have been the problem.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 01:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd never really given Konitz much of a listen when I was younger, because I associated him with the more-conservative end of the Tristano school. But I heard some selections from the Milestone Duets recordings today for the first time, and was doubly floored — first by the playing, then second when the DJ announced that it was Konitz on alto.

mark 0 (mark 0), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 06:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I had a big black/white jazz musician complex back then so that might have been the problem.

You're probably talking about "authenticity" issues, but [veering off topic here; I blame insomnia] race has been more a problem for listeners and promoters than for the actual musicians. I'll bet Benny Goodman took some flack for his integrated small groups in the 30's, and Charlie Parker would sometimes try to pass off Red Rodney as an albino during tours of the south a decade later.

The one example I can think of from a musician's standpoint is Charles Tyler quitting Albert Ayler's group over the impromptu hiring of Michel Samson one night in Cleveland, mentioned here.

mark 0 (mark 0), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 06:50 (seventeen years ago) link

You're probably talking about "authenticity" issues

Right. It wasn't that I wouldn't listen to white musicians, but only white musicians I felt could "swing" properly. I thought the Tristano school was all about some esoteric academic approach (which it was in a way, I guess) and that somehow diminished it as jazz. But I'm talking about me in high school, maybe early in college, that's all.

race has been more a problem for listeners and promoters than for the actual musicians

I'd imagine it was more of a problem for some in the 60s, when you had the increasing prevalence of black political movements. I have also heard one or two white musicians gripe about some big name black bandleaders today supposedly favoring black musicians. It always sounded like sour grapes to me, so I never paid it much mind.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 12:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Search: "Satori," also with Solal.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 22:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I really dislike Satori, actually.

BTW, I just read that Tristano apparently didn't like strong drummers, which might be another reason I didn't initially respond to Tristano-school records.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

only thing I ever have is a bootleg of him playing on la monte young's 'map of 49's dream' with jon hassell, rosenboom & zazeela. it's great, I didn't know it was only the tip of the iceberg, I'll check this other stuff out.

milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 14 September 2006 18:43 (seventeen years ago) link

fourteen years pass...

Inside Hi-Fi is worth a mention here. It's a delightfully simple album that swings hard and with some gorgeous lyricism.

calzino, Saturday, 19 June 2021 23:01 (three years ago) link


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