this is the thread where you answer my 8 bar/grime/garage questions, and talk about how great nasty crew are

other good thing i've heard recently - dizzee's 2hr djing thing on 1xtra a month ago.

i got a bit of that Dizzee thing - the track before they freestyle over DJ ZInc's 'Go DJ' is great - killer bassline!

Do you have links to these NASTY crew / Dizzee mixes, toby?

do you use a pc? if so get on the uk garage dc++ hub. i'm not sure it's available on macs, though.

toby, i can give you the donkey kick thing now that it's out.

vice versa is on the covermount CD of the new Deuce mag *plug plug* - as mixed by Nasty Crew.

there are loads of mixes of Ice Rink and Eskimo.

of Eskimo there's the original,
the devil (beatless) mix [GROUNDBREAKING!],
the refix with Hungry Tiger in ["Eskimo 3"],
the Braindead mix by Tubby,
the donkey kick vocal,
the unreleased Platinum 45 full vocal VIP with Wiley n Dizzee [IT'S AMAZING!].

and personally, i hear the hype about Nasty but given the Duece CD and set's ive heard, i don't think they're a patch on Dizzee and Wiley yet, though very much in the same vein. even "Vice Versa" ain't all that mefinks.

there are too many versions of Ice Rink to mention: most of Roll Deep and Nasty Crew have jumped up on it.

i) you can get 'vice versa' (aka 'girls love boys') on slsk i think, let me know if you're a user and feel free to purge my files i have shit loads.

ii) 'donkey kick' i haven't noticed but surely it's up on dubplate.net???

iii) there are quite a few versions of 'ice rink', the most recent with kano, sharkey and sniper being the best i think.

iv) i don't know what you mean about 'feedback'....you were disapointed it doesn't actually have any feedback in it!?!? it's heavy as fuck!

as for nasty crew you can check them out monday nights 8-10 (i think) on deja vu 92.3 fm. you should be able to pick it up in north west. nasty crew are definitely the ones to watch now, kano and sharkey are arguably the best mcs on the scene (well they're my favourites at least) and jammer is a really imaginative producer, though i don't think they have as much raw talent as rolldeep and i wouldn't like to say if jammer is better than wiley or danny weed (he's certainly different). but yeah nasty and east connection are the ones right now.
there's a very good nasty crew set up on ukmusicworldwide.com that's well worth checking out.

2 ice rinks comps have come out, with 4 versions each. 1st headlined with dizzee, 2nd with kano

donkey kick is prob on juno, aloing with that kano 'old skool' song no one else seems to stock

anyway fuck all this suburban ish, it's all about k2 and dem lott!

and the genius producer no one has mentioned: moses

also d-ee looks great in vice this month

the new dem lott tune is wack. K2 are so '01!

who's moses?

yeah i know, isn't it great

haha!

thanks everyone. where can i get deuce? borders?

the vice versa i want is the remix that tim talks about on skykicking:

http://skykicking.tripod.com/2003_07_01_archive.html#105842459652528559

i've only found mp3s of the orginal...

toby there isn't a remix

b-but tim says:

“Vice Versa” replicates that track’s realisation that at some point the underlying rhythmic matrix of a dance style (2-step’s bump’n’flex, 8-bar’s bang’n’scrape) is internalised, felt even when it’s not heard, and so abandons the basic beat structure, replacing it with a much less familiar, much more compelling substitute which forces the dancer to find the rhythm by instinct alone.

The real headtrip though is the remix, which takes the original’s Spartan recorder hook and expands it into an exotic, utopian flute loop that’s flushed with Eastern promise, furnished with Oriental synths and belly dancer percussion.

a-and:

Sharkie Major - Ain't a Game

ahhh didn't read that bit, sorry! i though tim's over enthusiasm had you confused!

there's about 20 tracks on the Duece CD.
i'll get you one, though in general if you can't find it get it from www.deucemag.com

sorry that last post was for toby

is it mixed?

yup

thanks martin! i'll have a look in borders anyway...

it's my first issue as news editor *martin beams*

Back to Jammer for a sec ... he has a wicked compositional sense. He almost has a classicist style -- he knows his chord structure and counter-melody really well and employs them in simple but very effective ways. Birds in The Sky is probably in my top three for best written UKG tracks ...

Yeah I agree wholeheartedly. Have you heard 'Feedback'? If you ignore the fact that it sounds similar to the crystal maze theme it has a really classical sense of melody with the strings and stuff, it's a very complex tune but still bangs. Also Danny Weed is good at this - 'salt beef' and 'creeper'.

... and "Rat Race" which features something that sounds suspiciously like a cordless power drill!

I guess why I pick Jammer over Danny Weed is that Jammer's sounds/patches/samples are a bit more carefully selected ... the tendency in UKG to go for the most default-y of default string patches is not necessarily the best policy I think.

Danny Weed's still got a bit of that, and those bizarre mid-rangey basslines with a bit of ring modulation on 'em .... too weird for me!

anyone know what this is?

it starts out with the lyrics from "wickedest ting" but then ... everybody seems to drop the ball. no idea what the rhythm track is ... don't care for it much though :-(

i think it's by pay as you go? is that the sidewinder b2b with dj slimzee stevem?

dj narrows 'saved soul'. stevem, i've got a dubzie of it with gods gift and wiley in my UKG folder on slsk. username 'Sean Fuck'

fuck it the riddim might be 'know we'??? fuck knows

hey sean, what's yr slsk username? (ha i've probably gotten stuff before from you without realizing.)

"ahhh didn't read that bit, sorry! i though tim's over enthusiasm had you confused!"

Hey! Although I was being a bit flowery I admit. Saying "this tune rocks" always feels slightly reductive.

The Vice-Versa Remix I have is instrumental incidentally, and totally different to the original except that the original has a recorder and the remix uses what sounds like a flute. It's possible my copy was misnamed. It starts off with a guy saying "And now let me introduce our project for the future!" Which is great, obviously.

I find "Salt Beef" slightly overrated - it's good and all but it sounds v. quintessentially Roll Deep, not as wacked-out as "Ice Rink" but not as yummy sounding as Danny's stuff with Target. Maybe it works better with an MC?

The snippet of "Rat Race" I've heard sounds amazing.

how did i miss this thread?

The mp3 of the Vice Versa remix Tim's talking about is just labelled 'Kano & Jammer - Vice Versa' I think. But I wrote '(remix)' at the end to differentiate it from the Boys luv Girls one, and gave it to Tim. Maybe the correct name is something completely different, or maybe it was the untitled b-side of Vice Versa.

I love Salt Beef for the bassline and the breathy flute sound.

oh yeah, and my blog: http://keith.wh3rd.net

I think it sorta makes sense that it's a remix - it takes the little asthmatic recorder melody and the shuddering beats from the original and just... expands them - albeit far beyond the point of recognisability.

i got it in the end, labelled "vice versa instrumental". i got the other tracks i was looking for, too.

i think i overrated nasty crew a bit up there, they're good but not as good as roll deep.

heh, i like the idea of something making it onto pazz & jop or whatever as a result of a mislabeled mp3

i also love the fact that i'm going to have to seriously sit down and decide what grime tunes are gonna make it into my personal top 10

(shortlist: "boys luv girls", the "ice rink" eps, "vice versa (remix)", wiley - "blizzard", "rat race", any of the plasticman tunes i've heard so far, "birds in the sky", "ain't a game", "i luv u (sharkie remix)", etc etc etc.)

Let's do this:

Danny Weed & Target - Fresh Air
Skepta - that synth pop tune Keith talks about on his blog
Jammer & Kano - Vice Versa (Boys Luv Girls)
Jammer - Vice Versa (Remix)
Donae'o & Mr Fidgit - Bounce (Remix)
Ruff Squad - R U Double F
Wiley - Ice Rink ft. Dizzee Rascal *or* Kano
Sharkie Major - Ain't A Game
Wiley ft. Harry Toddler - Donkey Kick
Roll Deep - that mystery track

Interchangable with some of the above:

The Ends - Are You Really From The Ends (the remix on the Nasty Crew audio set which is not actually the Jammer mix; the one with the "Down Down Biznizz" style beats)
Jammer & D.E.E. - Birds In The Sky
Roll Deep - Roll Deep Regular
Roll Deep/Danny Weed - Rat Race
Target - Earthwarrior (or Dumpvalve?) (Remix)

Here's a CDR-80 mix i made for a friend last week.

1. Wiley ft. Sharkey Major "Ice Rink"
2. Rolldeep Crew "Rolldeep Regular"
3. Danny Weed "Salt Beef"
4. D Double E "Birds In The Sky"
5. Kano "Boys Love Girls"
6. Musical Mobb "bad Bongo Behaviour"
7. Plasticman "Shox Waves"
8. Nasty Crew "Don't Ya Know"
9. East Connection "We're Ready (Wiley Remix)"
10. Jon E Cash "War (VIP Mix)"
11. Wiley "Pulse Eskimo AKA The Gunshot Riddim"
12. Sharkey Major "This Aint A Game"
13. Rolldeep Crew "Bounce"
14. Musical Mobb "Pulse X (VIP Mix)
15. Lady Stush "Dollar Sign"
16. Wiley "Happens For A Reason"
17. The Streets ft. Rolldeep "Let's Push Things Forward"

Its in no way definitive and im not evben sure if ive remembered the tracklisting properly. In hgindsight i'd probably swap "bad bongo behaviour" for "Fresh Air", and maybe Lady Stush for another Wiley tune - "Dobkey Kick" or "Icepole" or "Igloo". The Streets can piss off for Ruff Squad "Tings In Boots".

My personal top ten runs something like:
1. Wiley "Ice Rink"
2. Wiley "Igloo"
3. Jon E Cash "War (VIP Mix)
4. Beat Assasins ft. Kano & Clarkey "Old Skool"
5. Danny Weed "Salt Beef" (especially as heard with Flo Dan spitting the "rolldeep regular" refrain!)
6. Plasticman "Shox Waves"
7. Musical Mobb "Bad Bongo Behaviour"
8. Sharkey "This Aint A Game"
9. Harry Toddler "Donkey Kick"
10. Danny Weed & Target "Freshair".

Hmmm. Not in order really but probably my 10 most listened to records of any genre this year let alone garage.

I quite like Plasticman but his stuff sounds a tad anal retentive, and it strikes me that Target does something similar and yet much better. That something being a Source Direct-style edgy post-techstep neurosis (as opposed to, say, Wiley/Danny Weed style mentalism); the "much better" being added doses sparkly musicality, more physically impacting beats, generally better programming. Actually Target is *very much* the Source Direct to Plasicman's Photek.

Wiley, "Blizzard"; Danny Weed, "Salt Beef" - can people sit through to the end of these? I like the general phrases that make up each these tracks but spun out to 2-3 minutes I'm checking my watch and thinking about elsewhere. They don't so much tread a line between boredom and excitement as much as they're boring songs with wow moments.

(I've just the said the same thing twice then but tried to play it off as a distinction / contrast, haven't I?)

David, both those tracks are underwhelming as instrumental 8-bars and awesome with rapping over the top. They're not designed to be heard without rapping, but due to the nature of the market (the instrumental version is most readily available because MCs want it to rap over)it's all you can find on the interweb.

There are 8-bars that work well as instrumentals - "Fresh Air" is probably the most notable example.

I really like Lewi White - "Star Ship" - piercing, syrupy synth. (I can't talk about this music without creasing up into an uncomfortable cringe. And I can read about it even less. I think it benefits being talked about in 'strict' musicological / trend-analysis terms more than any other. Which is why I can read you on it quite comfortably, Tim.)

(Zemko to thread, stat.)

Yeah it's very difficult to latch onto mentally, to find ways of describing what it is that a particular track does and how that's different to other tracks.

kano ice rink has got to be the best of the lot... or dizzy. sharky's good but kano changes his pace, sounds and flow all the time and it sounds heavy

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