dizzee rascal - jezebel

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discuss! i've seen a couple of reviews of the album describe this as misogynist, and most others don't mention it at all, but for me it's one of the best things on there. it's certainly one of the most affecting things i've heard this year, more so than "do it" - the bleak inevitability of the narrative, combined with that melody... wow. i must have heard it a hundred times in the last month, but i've yet to tire of it. and i don't think it's misogynist, either.

more later when my flatmate's not around and i can listen to it (i'm banned for playing grime stuff when she's in).

― toby (tsg20), Sunday, 20 July 2003 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

it's certainly not as misogynist as "swallow", is it? really it belongs on that thread from a few days back "songs that thing they're being 'progressive' or 'feminist' when really they're being skeevy." i mean, the sentiments are kinda admirable - teenage girls shouldn't sleep around, safe sex or you get preggers, etc. - but delievered with such contempt that you can't really take it seriously.

i agree that the melody is aces. but then mannie fresh came up with a lot of good melodies to go long with his tales of wifey swappin and tastin rubbers.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 20 July 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

see also donaeo's "bounce": hey kids, don't do drugs, just fuck hoez!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 20 July 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, obviously i'm all for sex over guns.

drugs i'm not so shure of

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 20 July 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

it's one of the best moments on the album - it's not especially misogynist. big-picture-wise it chimes in with boy in da corner's themes of being trapped, life being a cycle that repeats itself (this explains the really problematic line about the "two little girls, two more of her that's two jezebels" - to me this is abt kids often following in the footsteps of their parents, not being given oppotunities to break away and do better, NOT saying these are innate feminine qualities), wanting to escape (cf the line abt "aint no love thing here, it's just one big cycle" earlier in the album and the closing line of jezebel "if only i was 6 years younger, damn") - also dizzee isn't a dependable narrator, he flits from character to character throughout the album and within each track to the point you can't really say whether he is speaking for himself or not. this is partly what's so fascinating abt him - he's got the whole multiple-personality thing going on that eminem does so well. jezebel is actlly pretty insightful for my money, with blame is not just laid on women ("the boys still come"). if anything, listening to it closely you empathize with the women described and their lives. it's also got those spine tingling pizzicato string sections holding all together, thus = the best thing on boy in da corner, along w/ do it...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 20 July 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

jess what's w/ the new name???

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 20 July 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I think this song is one of the more boring, plodding songs from the album.

― sean g, Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

you = mental! ;-)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Although i do like the "...boom ting! i really hope yr not a crim i really hope your not a jezzie" chorus. Ok, the lyrics are actually really good but mainly because they acuurately describe about 90% of female kind.

― sean g, Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

just stand there a while sean while all female ilx0rs prepare to shoot you down in righteous flames!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i forgot i had this still set for that name (see ile)...i think i'll keep it tho

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

But seriously. I don't think it's particularly misogynistic; Dizzee clearly takes a narrators stance opposed to actually passing judgement on Jezebel (apart from in the chorus where he hopes this boom ting isn't a crim nor a jezzie, but then who wants a girl or boy who fucks about and has STDs anyway?).

If the reviews are reffering to the language used then well it could be construed as being "misogynistic" but it's necessary to convey the realism of his ends and the girls and boys that play in the story. They talk like that, get over it. Dizzee clearly has sympathy for jezebel who's been fucked about by boys as much as she's fucked about herself. "If only she was 6 years younger - damn".

Anyway still think it's an underwhelming song but that's not the question so carry on!

― sean g, Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Speaking as a Canadian, my first visit to London (and in particular the East and the South bits where I lived briefly) was quite eye-opening. The teenage pregnancy problem is completely out-of-whack. I was shocked!

To me, it was a problem nobody was really dealing with either. It's taken a couple of years for me to hear a song (or indeed an album) that confronts it so head on. I Luv U is better, topically, but Jezebel is a different angle that I find no more misogynist than anything Jay Z's ever done (and in the case of Jay Z it largely seems like contextless boasting about what a pimp he is).

The pizzicato strings that form the basis of the track is one of Dizzee's best jobs. The melody and phrasing are very stron musically, but it doesn't suck or sound wimpy either. I would have liked to see him switch it up a bit to break the monotony, but Oh Well.

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Welcome to the ILM Strongo

― Andy K (Andy K), Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It's one of my favorite on the album. The rhythm's really subtle; It has a really unique momentum to it, with the 1-2-3-4 of the strings (and the interesting accents from the lower strings) he could probably flow over that alone. You hardly notice the drums except when they drop out (which is great!)

Teenage pregnancy is a big problem in America too! I'm assuming it is in a lot of places... There were around 1000 people at my high school, and like 15 pregnant girls the year I graduated!

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude as a Canadian/American I can say nothing will prepare you for the amount of prams (ie. strollers) you will see on a visit to London!

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah teenage pregnancy is at almost epidemic proportions around hackney and walthamstow (my ends) but whether it's a problem... well it's certainly a problem for anthony blairs!

― sean g, Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

it's a problem for the world's food and fuel supplies too!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 20 July 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

what is this "world" you speak of?

― sean g, Sunday, 20 July 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

the one i attempt to keep at bay with booze and records and cigarettes.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 20 July 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i am drinking gin in hackney smoking cigareetes and trying to keep it at bay, wishing i could get out and hoping my next gal is just nice. dizzee + jess = me!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 20 July 2003 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

and i've only had one mouthful of gin so it's got nothing to do with my reprehensible typing! back to the song tho, this is a classic case of the misinterpratations of dizzee and partly why i was so adamant he was not hip hop on another thread. the media want him to be the brit jay-z or prob more like 50 cent after his stabbing (i lay a night's beer down that this comparison will be made in the press within 1 month), a real ruffneck bad-bwoy eastender, the personification of mike skinner's "deep seeded urban decay", but he's not, he's a sensitive, witty KID who's trying to find his place in the world (in public) and making great music commentiong on the life he sees around him...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 20 July 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

well it's certainly a problem for anthony blairs!

Is he the father of them all?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 July 2003 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

*coffee shoots out nose*

― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Sunday, 20 July 2003 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

what's wrong with teenage girls sleeping around?

in partic that isn't wrong with teenage boys sleeping around?

(double standard, hello?)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 21 July 2003 01:15 (twenty-two years ago)

well, 1) it's not good for their health, 2) the uk has sky high levels of stds and teenage pregnancies, 3) no one's saying that it's any worse for girls than boys ("the boys still come"), if you discount the cervical cancer issue, that is...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 July 2003 08:11 (twenty-two years ago)

so does this mean someone's ready to tell me what a "crim" is, then?

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Monday, 21 July 2003 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

hey phil, it's just a rough gyal i think, in this context - first up i heard it as "grim" though, and i'm still not sure...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 21 July 2003 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

er... condoms?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

er... kids? er... often don't think of these things coz they're, er... kids?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

er... sex ed?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

er... truancy!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The first time I heard Boy In Da Corner I was surprised by all the references to school - till I realised Dizze was only 19 and it's prob. all fresh in his memory. Could 'crim' in this context mean 'underage'?

― Nathan W (Nathan Webb), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

he's only just 18 and a lot of the songs will have been written while he was still at school just over a year ago!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

jesus

― Nathan W (Nathan Webb), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

"crim" doesn't mean "criminal"? (Not in the literal sense but in the sense of someone doing something wrong, cf Fiona Apple)

I recently discovered this song, BTW, and it's fucking amazing. I like the mixture of disdain, contempt and desire all tumbling over itslef in the lyrics. People complaining about it being misogynist strike me as not only completely missing the point but being mentally incapable of seeing the point.

Also, it leads into "Give It Up" by The Goodmen almost flawlessly.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

People complaining about it being misogynist strike me as not only completely missing the point but being mentally incapable of seeing the point.

i heart dan perry.

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I hate it when I finally catch up to some fantastic piece of music that ILM has worn out already and said everything I want to say. But then I remember that I get to play the song over and over and my disappointment goes away.

I can't think of a recent song that's had a better ending than this.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

excellent, my personal fav song on the album. dizzee shows _regret_ and _despair), it doesn't come over mysogynist at all to me - "I really hope your not a grim / I really hope your not a jezzy, jezzy"..

he doesn't want girls to be sleeping around, putting themselves into dangerous positions - he sounds worried about them, not about _himself_.

― chris andrews (fraew), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

thinking about this song convinces me that i'm right to think that boy in da corner is much better than showtime.

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

From what I've heard, _Boy In Da Corner_ has higher highs but _Showtime_ is more consistent.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

(I'm also convinced he's saying "grim" because I've played this 20 times today.)

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

i finally bought a real copy of BIDC when i saw it on sale yesterday. i luv u's deathless, i know it's getting old here to praise that that third verse of jus' a rascal - still knock-out amazing, fix up is perfect in it's way, and a bunch of the supposed filler really does bulk up on repeated listens, but teasing out greatness feels like work when you've got "showtime" to listen to.

questionable jezebel lyrics:

"hoe can't keep her legs closed"
"pretty ma aint got a brain/got no shame/got juiced on the train"

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Showtime is more of what I originally got into Dizzee for - avalanches of great lines and pronunciation to detangle. It actually leaves Boy In Da Corner sounding more unexpected than it did before - the slower, more story-based lyrics on BIDC seem more of a detour now that he's shifted back to more of an "I Luv U" style.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 September 2004 03:47 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, listening again i couldn't believe how, uh, speak-y BIDC was when it wasn't "i luv u".

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:24 (twenty-one years ago)

There are some real "wow" moments on Showtime.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:26 (twenty-one years ago)

even more than on BIDC I think. Some of the actual delivery is just amazing.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:26 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh Hype Talk for one

― the neurotic rassafrassa of harrumph (blueski), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:33 (twenty-one years ago)

true. Stand Up Tall, Knock Knock, the whole bloody thing really!

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't get the distinction Tim makes between the two albums - BIDC has Stop Dat, Wot U On, Seems To Be, Live O, even Jus' A Rascal arguably. I can't see how he's shifted 'back' to I Luv U in either delivery or production.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I see a fair few parallels between tracks as well - Jus A Rascal is to Learn what Fix Up Look Sharp is to Everywhere, for example. They strike me as different variations on the same theme.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh i think he's moved further away from that if anything, maybe because there's less Wiley influence i'm not sure, but 'Showtime' sounds and behaves more hip hop than anything else. I get halfway through it thinking 'this is definitely better than AGDCFF but then despite a plethora of great bits towards the end I don't feel it as much.

also Do it and Brand New Day > Imagine so i'm surprised Ned rates that so much

― the neurotic rassafrassa of harrumph (blueski), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"I wanted to show my diversity with my writing skills, as a lyricist without going too deep and too paranoid, or too melancholy or whatever, without making it too much for peoples heads. Maybe some people thought that about the last one

I wanted to show a lot more range. It’s more of a party record than Boy In Da Corner. There’s a lot more vibesy and more dancey stuff on it. With the first album I was still coming to grips with the concept of y’know, writing songs?"

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 09:41 (twenty-one years ago)

haha ned rates "imagine" because its got a sample he recognizes from an old punk record

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 16 September 2004 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah there are the fast tracks on BITC but there's also stuff like the melodic tracks, "Cut Em Off", "Jezebel", "Round We Go" - all of which are a bit slower (although "Round We Go" doesn't *feel* slower due to the complexity of the narrative) because a) he's trying to tell specific stories with each one so it's like he wants you to pay really close attention, and b) the glumness of the subject matter suits what feels (in relation to his faster tracks) like a "pensive" tempo.

By comparison for me the first half of Showtime is just this big blur, but in a really good way, it reminds me of Ghostface a bit but more enjoyable as far as I'm concerned because I can actually follow what's happening if I concentrate.

I love "Imagine" by the way. Love it to bits. I can imagine how people could feel its too obviously sweet, even corny, but I've always felt that the hardcore continuum generally can't go wrong when it comes to corniness - Dizzee has picked up almost by osmosis that talent for making sparkly synth sounds filled to bursting with bittersweet plangency.

"Fickle" is still my favourite though.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 September 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"Fickle" is far and away the best track on the record, it's just awesome. "BORE STRAIGHT THROUGH", it may be the best track he's done to date.

What I like about "Imagine" is the really smart verse about seeing where you are and if you want out or to stay behind etc.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 September 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

i was listening to "stand up tall" on the way to university and i love the way he just launches into that final verse. i start anticipating it from the scratchy d-d-dirtee stank bit.

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 16 September 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

ha ha going into that third verse, my son ALWAYS without fail gets up out of his seat and shakes his ass in this really hilarious angular jitterbuggy kinda way.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 16 September 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

The scratchy bit really wrong-footed me the first time I heard it - it just sounded like such a surprising thing to hear in a Dizzee record. Maybe it shows how far we've come in such a short space of time that a bit of scratching sounds so out of place in a British rap record.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 September 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

To go back to Mitch's examples of questionable lyrics, I think the context and construction of the song keep those bits from being misogynistic. There's a lot of overlap between how people view this girl and what they call her, how she views herself and the various things she's done, and Dizzie's narrator looking at her with conflicting "Man, she's fucked up" and "Man, I WANT TO BONE HER" impulses that give the omniscient narrator way more personality and character than most songs. The entire song resonates with drama, regret and futility; judgement can't really be passed here because judging someone implies resolution and if there's one thing that sticks out about the song; it's the abrupt resolution-free ending.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Thursday, 16 September 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, the juxtaposition of a deeply sensual hotsex beat with nightmare lyrics about the perils of indiscriminate and dangerous sexing IS FUCKING AWESOME GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 September 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

the jezebel beat is a hotsex beat? did they change sex again without letting me know?

― m. (mitchlnw), Monday, 20 September 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

I AM BACK ON THIS SONG AGAIN IT IS BRILLIANT BEYOND WORDS

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 3 January 2005 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

This friend of my roommate's tried to be like "yeah he's cool and all, but he doesn't really, you know, tell stories or anything", to which I replied [PRESSING PLAY BUTTON VIGOROUSLY, SKIPPING EVEN MORE VIGOROUSLY TO TRACK TWELVE] "EAT IT FUCKNUT".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 3 January 2005 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

And did he?

― .adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 3 January 2005 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hooray for skipping vigorously to Dizzee Rascal songs! You have given me new dancing fodder.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 3 January 2005 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Adam. You are a smart. Ass.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 3 January 2005 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I am vigorously skipping to "Dream"!

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 3 January 2005 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I am energetically hopscotching to "We Ain't Havin' It"!

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 3 January 2005 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

But are you skipping like a TRUE puppet?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 January 2005 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)

this song is indeed good, mostly b/c of the harshness of the pizz strings (sounds like the cello's gonna break) but the sentiment was done better by AZ almost ten years ago w/ the song 'hoe happy jackie'

― jake b. (cerybut), Monday, 3 January 2005 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

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