Rhino Records and Soul Jazz: Money question???

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I heard that Rhino records makes a killing and that the two guys that started it are rolling in dough.

What about Soul Jazz? Do you think their making a profit from their comps? Or are doing well? They mostly just rerelease old stuff too. They seem to release a new comp every couple months or so.

Also, how are they paying for the tracks they use? Do they pay the artist a flat fee or give a percent of sales? And how much do you think they paid each artist about for their NY noise comp?

I got 21 questions....

thanks!

― jazzy k, Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Rhino has been owned by Warners for a few years now, but I think it was (and is) a very profitable outfit.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I have it on decent authority that Ari Up of the Slits, whose song gave SJ's In the Beginning There Was Rhythm comp its title track, didn't even know about it till after the fact, and I've heard things about non payment of artists as well.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Hum????? Interesting. I wonder what the story is for the rest of their comps? Maybe SJ worked something out with the record label the slits were on. And the band hasn't seen their cut.

Anyone else?

― jazzy k stepper, Tuesday, 22 July 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

The thing about soul jazz is that they run club nights and have the shop too. It would be interesting to know what the economics are - whether the club nights make little cash but act as promotion for the comps, etc... My guess is that the Dynamite CDs must make money, but I'm not sure about the rest. The Soul Jazz CDs always seem to be popular and are in the front windows of record stores, they get decent coverage in the press, etc... BUT, this is bearing in mind that I do most of my record shopping in Soho, read ILM, etc... so you would expect them to be big there. How popular they are outside of these obvious areas i have no idea. One good pointer may be looking at the Amazon sales rankings...

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 07:30 (twenty-two years ago)

bands (unless they have it written into their contract) have no say on where or who the record company licences their material to. i found a track my brother had recorded on a compilation, phoned him up to tell him what a good job they had done and he'd never heard of it, nevermind been paid. this is not uncommon.

― joni, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 07:36 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, having done that and taking some of the most recent releases we get the folowing sales ranking from Amazon (titles in order of most recent first):

New York Noise: 706
Nice up the dance: 5,337
Miami Sound: 6,681
Impact: 18,968

I guess that shows pretty respectable sales, but quickly taling off after a couple of months, which would point to a core of loyal consumers but not loads of interest outside of that. Also, it seems the dynamite ones are all ranking 40,000+, so maybe they don't sell as well as i expected

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 07:37 (twenty-two years ago)

40,000+ seems pretty good to me, for an independant.

I wonder if any of those Jamacian dudes are seeing any money from that? I was actually thinking about this today listening to the Dynamite series - am I right in thinking that there is no copyright legislation in JAM? Surely, that doesn't mean that you can distribute without paying the artist - correct me please.

― Michael Dieter, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 07:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Well the last Dynamite one came out, what, 2 or 3 years ago now so you wouldn't expect it to be high.

HMV had a fairly prominent cut-price deal on all Soul Jazz CDs recently so they have now got a 'profile' outside specialist shops.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 07:42 (twenty-two years ago)

the 40,000 number is the ranking, not units.

I'm very curious about the economics of this too.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 07:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Soul Jazz is certainly hugely influential - i'd say stuff like their ESG comp and In The Beginning There Was Rhythm either anticipated or instigated the resurgence in interest for these artists/movements...

What's the best Soul Jazz so far? for me, Saturday Night Fish Fry wins it, for Betty Harris's 'Break In the Road' alone!

― stevie (stevie), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 08:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"I have it on decent authority that Ari Up of the Slits, whose song gave SJ's In the Beginning There Was Rhythm comp its title track, didn't even know about it till after the fact"

In fairness, I understand that up until a year or two ago, Ari was living somewhere in the wilds of Jamaica and pretty much out of contact with everyone and everything!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

their New Orleans comps are pretty top-notch. i keep hoping they will just reissue the entire Lee Dorsey "Yes We Can" record though, and not just tantalize us with a few tracks. but where can Soul Jazz go next, locale-wise?

― abeta, Wednesday, 23 July 2003 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

An interesting comparison would be Nuphonic: their label was kind of the opposite way round to SJ - i.e. more new stuff than re-releases, whereas SJ is def more re-releases (at least in terms of sales + profile), and where SJ have a shop and promote club nights, Nuphonic actually opened a bar/club. Of course, the Nuphonic label went bust while the bar/club (the bridge and tunnel) is still open, at least as far as I know. Of course, Nuphonic tended to tie in their re-release comps with DJs or other things (Norman Jay, Andy Weatherall, Last night a DJ saved my life book), which probably would have driven more sales, but I assume reduced margins and these people would have needed to be payed as well of the artists.

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Wednesday, 23 July 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

ten months pass...

God, Saturday Night Fish Fry is ridiculously good. How good is that Wild Magnolias track?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 7 June 2004 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

why are soul jazz cds so fucking expensive? even dusty groove doesn't mark them below 16 bucks.

rhino is overpriced too.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 7 June 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Because they are BRITISH imports and the DOLLAR is worth SQUAT!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 7 June 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i wonder if they will fall out of favour and turn up in cheap bins? i got a lot of the early soul jazz / universal things for $5 or less aust.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Monday, 7 June 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

alex, dusty groove is FILLED with british imports and none of them--save some cds on the ace label--are as expensive as the soul jazz stuff.

they are also inordinately expensive in the uk (i checked a border's in oxford) and france.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 7 June 2004 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

They are/were SO cheap in the UK. The Soul Jazz stall in Spitalfields Market sold them for about 8 pounds each. Also, they are pretty ubiquitous in London bargain bins/used record stores, for some reaon.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 7 June 2004 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Everything is expensive in France. I didn't notice Soul Jazz stuff being excessively pricey. And $18US is about the regular price for a new CD these days (especially one with a snazzy slipcase and a thick book.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 7 June 2004 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

the US needs a little
http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/ctm/edinburgh/images/cburn-fopp.jpg

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 7 June 2004 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

depends on the distributor and what they charge. some distros are cheaper than others. Forced Exposure distributes Soul Jazz so maybe they charge more than others. don't know personally, though.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 7 June 2004 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

soul jazz cds were at least 21 euro in paris.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 7 June 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I paid AUD$37 for Saturday Night Fish Fry a couple of years back, making it possibly the most expensive single CD I have ever purchased. Luckily, it is utterly fab.

SJ favourite is 'Philadelphia Roots' though, for all the gorgeous instrumental tracks, esp 'I'm Gonna Make You Love Me' (I've just noticed CDDB has substituted the 'G' for a 'D' on my playlist..)

― wombatX (wombatX), Monday, 7 June 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i know this will sound hopelessly chauvinist, but something irks me about the brits taking a bunch of red-hot american music, and then selling it back to us at $20 a disc.

go american!

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

We always do that! It's our thing. For some reason when you do it we just end up with... Interpol.

Talking of Soul Jazz, has anyone got the 'Nu Yorica Vol.1 - Culture Clash in New York City' 70s Latin compilation? It looks like I might want it, but then my wish list is getting kind of out of control just lately, so I guess I need a heavy recommendation.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's one------------> (!)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Love the cover for it, too.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to be bankrupt. Any particular tracks you'd recommend for me to try out from filesharing?

Philadelphia Roots is indeed great. It's so damn evocative. 'United' by Music Makers, especially. Pretty impossible to find a year for half the stuff on it, which bothers obsessive iTunes users like me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Does Soul Jazz still put out stuff on the Satellite imprint? I really like that Sand album I have.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

We always do that! It's our thing. For some reason when you do it we just end up with... Interpol.

N ist rad.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

Who has been listening to this, then?
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0001ZMCZK.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
It's great.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm willing to bet that amateur!st has it, or at least has an interest in it.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 05:15 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

Philadelphia Roots is even better, by the way.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 16 September 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Philly Roots Volume 2 is out soon I believe.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Thursday, 16 September 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

'Nu Yorica Vol.1 - Culture Clash in New York City'

You've probably bought it by now, but I'll say it's not as great as you would hope it would be.

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 16 September 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe, but Barrio Nuevo is.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 16 September 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

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