Queensryche then and now

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I'm listening to Tribe for the second time, at the moment, after having listened to their first five albums a few times each in their newly remastered forms in recent weeks. I'm under no illusion that they're ever going to make more Rage for Orders, or even more Empires, but that doesn't keep me from missing their old goofy histrionic energy. They're one of those bands I think of as massively influential in a very small niche. Arguably they defined their niche, or at least redrew its borders.

And yet, I'm enjoying the new album in a way I very much didn't enjoy the three before it. It'll take me more listens to define how, exactly, but maybe it's something like: the sonic palette is still simplified, compared to the old big albums, but this time the songwriting sounds engaged, whereas on the other recent albums it sounded to me like they intentionally dumbed down their compositions.

Anybody else have early reactions or theories?

ara, Thursday, 24 July 2003 13:52 (twenty years ago) link

Hated them then, and I'll probably hate them now (I certainly hated them two years ago when they opened for Iron Maiden at the Garden).

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:39 (twenty years ago) link

"HERE IT IS, ANOTHER CHAH-NCE......"

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:55 (twenty years ago) link

(when they opened for Metallica on the "...And Justice" tour i remember thinking singer's DAY-GLO anarchy symbol t-shirt the height of poseurdom; i have since matured and seasoned my judgements so i now think it is beyond a pose and into criminally offensive territory)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 24 July 2003 14:58 (twenty years ago) link

I should have said "Anybody else who cares...".

ara, Thursday, 24 July 2003 15:02 (twenty years ago) link

haven't heard it yet. Kinda soured on the band with the '97 album, and losing your guitarist & lead songwriter as well as putting out a greatest hits generally sounds the death knell for a rock band.

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 24 July 2003 15:17 (twenty years ago) link

Chris "participated in the sessions" for this album, they say. Not sure exactly what that means.

ara, Thursday, 24 July 2003 15:28 (twenty years ago) link

I was just having a discussion with a friend the other day about Queensryche (a discussion of sorts rather than a heated debate, thank heavens) -- and my thought was that the music could be all right but Geoff Tate, man...I think I need Dan here to help me with this (and he might disagree), but it's a case of someone who can sing and actually does better (for me at least) with the operatic metal wail than some, but just something about his TONE...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 24 July 2003 15:32 (twenty years ago) link

I can sort of see how he sounds egotistical in a way even by the standards of the genre - like he's always blowing kisses at himself in the mirror or strutting his voice on a catwalk or, maybe more to the point, making tormented faces in the mirror. Sometimes I can find it repulsive but it also holds a certain fascination - it's part of the soaring, heroic melodrama of that stuff. I like how they multi-tracked and processed it almost to the point of airbrushing all over Empire - it goes with the hyper-compressed studio synths-and-swirling-arpeggios pomp-rock (which really is no harder than Linkin Park or Evanescence). I don't know actually if it's all that different from what a lot of other bands from the studio/production end of hair metal did - "Final Countdown" or "Wait" kind of stuff but I guess Queensryche really made it an aesthetic statement maybe? I'm listening to the album right now and quite enjoying it, thank you very much. The "Jet City Woman" pre-chorus just came on and it's classic. I played this so much on my Walkman riding my bike down suburban trails when I was 13 or 14. It's hard to say how much I'd like it if it didn't have nostalgic associations from a time when I had much fewer albums and so had to get more mileage out of each one. I still think "Another Rainy Night" is an underrated pop-AOR masterpiece in its way. "Empire" is pretty good too. Grudgingly I have to concede "Silent Lucidity" its status. "Queen Of the Reich" is a classic of course - it's actually the only really early track I know. I actually don't know their other albums. At some point I might give Rage for Order or Mindcrime a try so long as I don't have to pay for them but I have trouble getting excited about a new album. I still remember how awful "Sign Of the Times" was. I don't know that I really see them as being so niche-defining but I don't know them as well as ara does. I guess they were distinctive in a certain way for their time.

(And, yes, GT did look like Angelina Jolie.)

sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 24 July 2003 17:14 (twenty years ago) link

rage for order and mindcrime are both worth your time, even if the album photos for RfO incite more than just a snigger.

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 24 July 2003 17:26 (twenty years ago) link

i used to love them loads, my oldest brother was into them. i stopped caring after operation mindcrime but i remember once thinking they were the most intelligent band in the world and i was moreso just for listening. rage for order is definitely the best record, 'i only dream in infrared' is ab absolute classic. the first ep and album are also very good. when they made the very noticeable change away from being a brainy band they became dull and uninspiring, 'jet city woman' is just pathetic.

keith (keithmcl), Thursday, 24 July 2003 23:55 (twenty years ago) link

I think "Jet City Woman" is classic, but then I haven't listened to any of their other stuff, except for "Silent Lucidity", which I deplore, so I dunno what I'm missing.

Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 25 July 2003 03:03 (twenty years ago) link

The first two records might be a little too shrill and thin for many people, but 3-5 are awesome. Rage for Order is arguably the seminal progressive-metal album, Operation: Mindcrime is classic for its bizarrely paranoid politics, and Empire, flaws notwithstanding (I agree with the "Jet City Woman" detractors wholeheartedly), seems to me to succeed in all the niche-breakout ways that Metallica's black album failed...

ara, Friday, 25 July 2003 15:08 (twenty years ago) link

I think JCW is a decent power ballad but "Another Rainy Night" is the real gem of the album.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 July 2003 15:28 (twenty years ago) link

i remember back in the day people always hollering that singer had "the best voice in metal" ... hah hah ...

yeah if your idea of the "best singer in metal" is a euro sounding banshee that pierces eardrums with every note he hits. that guy sucks.

tk, Friday, 25 July 2003 15:33 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
My head hurts:

Art rock pioneers QUEENSRŸCHE will perform the classic album "Operation: Mindcrime" in its entirety on the upcoming fall 2004/winter 2005 tour, which is being presented by VH1 Classic. A "greatest hits" set will open each show, and at the end of the night there will be a preview of the upcoming Sanctuary Records release "Operation: Mindcrime II", the working title of the long-awaited, eagerly desired sequel to the groundbreaking concept album. Audiences will be blown away by the Surround Sound audio setup on the tour.

Vocalist Geoff Tate, guitarist Michael Wilton, guitarist Mike Stone, bassist Eddie Jackson and drummer Scott Rockenfield will open each show with a "greatest hits" set ending with the smash "Silent Lucidity". Local orchestra string sections will perform with the band in select cities. Michael Igor Delassandra, formerly an official composer for the Vatican, will accompany QUEENSRŸCHE and perform on keyboards.

“The band is so excited to be performing 'Operation: Mindcrime' in its entirety again after not having done this in 15 years," says Tate. "We are presenting it in a whole new way that finally does justice the intricacies of the story and the personalities of the characters.”

"Operation: Mindcrime" will be recreated in full with enhanced production. Live actors will embody the fascinating characters of this chilling tale — interacting both on stage and off. Vocalist Pamela Moore, who toured with QUEENSRŸCHE recently, will be back to provide the vocals of the album's pivotal character, "Sister Mary". New video footage will be incorporated as well. QUEENSRŸCHE also performed "Operation: Mindcrime" in its entirety in 1990-91, but this time around new and expanded video footage will be used. Fans who saw the show in 1990-91 will enjoy a more vivid experience this time.

One of the most exciting parts of each concert will certainly be the finale — the preview of "Operation: Mindcrime II". Fans have wanted a sequel ever since "Operation: Mindcrime" exploded and earned the band critical acclaim and commercial success. In particular, fans have always asked one burning question in relation to the "Operation: Mindcrime" plot: "Who killed Sister Mary?" The new album, scheduled for release in 2005, will address that question.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 05:03 (nineteen years ago) link

one year passes...
Someone - maybe an ILM denizen given the feelings in this thread - sold their entire Queensryche collection to my store and I am dutifully listening to them. I'm listening to the EP now and man, it holds up even after all these years. THis stuff could be on a new Nevermore disc and nobody would blink. Next up is *not* the debut full-length because I guess whomever sold us the rest didn't get rid of that one. That's fine. Unlike a lot, I never thought much of The Warning save for the title track and a couple others. Oh, and the goofy video (they all had goofy videos back then though).

The next couple hours after this EP ends, I shall be tossing on, in order, Rage For Order and Operation: Mindcrime. These are two of my favorite discs. The former is a mostly denigrated disc, and I think that's unfair. The band looked like weirdos on the back and sonically, it is a departure from the Maidenesque earlier material (and it also was the disc to come out before a disc certified as *groundbreaking*) but I think I like it a lot BECAUSE it's a departure. That and the huge fucking drum sound; actually, the production as a whole is kinda interesting, unlike the metal of the time.

As for Mindcrime, I know when it plays I will remember the day I first got it: Driving in my 1970 Maverick to the headshop called Dragonsong in Manassas, VA (yes, I used to cut class and hang out by the train depot in the Stephen Stills disc) I picked it up on cassette. Popped it into the car stereo that was worth more than the car. Started it while driving home, only a ten minute trip. Getting home, looking at the lyrics as it played, and never getting into the house until I sat in my parking spot and finished the tape off. Then I listened to it with headphones, reading it all. Then I called a friend, Jennifer Miller, who was a HS punk rocker who was my best friend. I called her over, she came and I played it for the third time that day, this time with her reading the lyrics on my bed. And when it was over, she was like, "wow." Yeah, I have fond memories of this one.

The person sold some of the other, later material. I won't be playing it.

Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Thursday, 26 January 2006 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link

That's a beautiful story, Brian.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 26 January 2006 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link

It was the part about cutting class that got ya, I'll bet...

Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Thursday, 26 January 2006 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link

And yes, I am digging Mindcrime as much as I thought I would...

Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Thursday, 26 January 2006 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Queen of the Reeeeeeeeee---iiiiiiiiiccccccchhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah! She's comin' for you!

righteousmaelstrom (righteousmaelstrom), Thursday, 26 January 2006 17:31 (eighteen years ago) link

"I remember now..."

Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Thursday, 26 January 2006 17:44 (eighteen years ago) link

"And WELCOME..."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 January 2006 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link

three months pass...
My boyfriend im 1991 was really super into them, so I listened to every album up to and including Empire about 900 times, and saw the Building Empires tour three times that year...

Jet City Woman is still one of my favorite Queensryche songs, but I always liked the bit between Another Rainy Night and Della Brown that went "sorry... it's starting to hit me like a um... um.. two ton... heavy thing."

luna (luna.c), Monday, 8 May 2006 21:38 (seventeen years ago) link

And um, sorry for reviving this.

luna (luna.c), Monday, 8 May 2006 21:38 (seventeen years ago) link

You've got a cardboard house.
Live there all the time.
Keep your memories tied with string
The face that many once-adored,
twenty years gone maybe more.
Somewhere you lost your dream.
Mama watched your every move,
but now you're all alone.
She's been gone for awhile.
Daddy left some time ago,
fading years pass too slow.
He's the only one, could make you smile.
--oh, you're still crying--
Big city bound.
Gonna make your mark.
Read your name in the lights.
All the ads and people say,
beauty lets you get your way.
Tried your best to prove them right.
But living on the streets ain't bad,
sad people make you glad.
Pardon me, could you spare some change?
--oh, you're still crying--
Street corner girl.
Watch the crowd go by,
fill your tin can with life.
Summer days tend to slip away
like your men you couldn't make them stay.
Hard to choose, whiskey or a wife.
Sometimes you wonder where's the end.
Where you goin' where you been?
Happiness seems so hard to win.
Most never care to find,
Della Brown sees it all the time.
Looking for that man
to make her smile again.

gear (gear), Monday, 8 May 2006 21:41 (seventeen years ago) link

I freely admit that the last person I expected to revive this thread was Luna.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 May 2006 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link

two years pass...

there's a place i like to hide
a doorway that i run to in the night

"Together we could rape the universe" (omar little), Wednesday, 6 May 2009 18:02 (fourteen years ago) link

The first 45 seconds of the first song on their first EP are awesome. After that, it's all shit.

Matt #2, Wednesday, 6 May 2009 18:06 (fourteen years ago) link

I hear they're playing Rage For Order in its entirety on the current tour. Pretty darn exciting if you ask me.

A. Begrand, Wednesday, 6 May 2009 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link

They were crap then. They're crap now. They will always be crap.

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 7 May 2009 01:24 (fourteen years ago) link

CRAPRYCHE!

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 7 May 2009 01:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Your mind tricked you to feel the pain
Of someone close to you leaving the game (of life)

once he puts that purple he will become an enemy (omar little), Thursday, 7 May 2009 01:27 (fourteen years ago) link

"Silent Lucidity" is eerily prescient of 9/11:

"The walls you built
Come tumbling down, and a new world will begin"

fall of the towers

"Living twice at once you learn
You're safe from pain in the dream domain"

safe from pain...after death

"A soul set free to fly
A round trip journey in your head"

flight references an obvious tipoff, plus a round-trip journey ONLY IN YOUR HEAD

dulce est desipere in loco (Euler), Thursday, 7 May 2009 01:31 (fourteen years ago) link

[Visualize your dreams
write them into permanent form
if you consist in your efforts
you will achieve
dream control

control

how is that, better?

dream control
dream control
help me

once he puts that purple he will become an enemy (omar little), Thursday, 7 May 2009 01:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Went to see the band at the Snoqualmie Casino a few weeks ago. Metal fans do not age well, particularly those who haven't changed their style since the '80s. Saw a lot of boofed hair and muffintops, both sexes.

That said, representing the ILM minority, I rate both O:M and O:M II highly. The new album has a lot of good moments, too, though I haven't shuffled it enough to know songs by name yet.

scampering alpaca, Thursday, 7 May 2009 04:48 (fourteen years ago) link

nine years pass...

Geoff Tate looks like an unemployed genie

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link

ten months pass...

looking forward to seeing them again this weekend. the band cooks now with the current lineup.

listening to Rage for Order now, this album is positively ear-wormy. "The Killing Words" practically feels like it could be on my cheesy 80's power ballad Spotify playlist. \m/

papa stank (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 22:21 (four years ago) link


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