Yeh Yeh music and its appreciation, C or D? (See also Girl Group music and its appreciation)

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The fascination with yeh-yeh music has always repelled me at the same time as it has enticed me.... I sort of wonder about the "ooh la la it's cute girls singing in French!" thing. Especially since most of the singers contained by this label are so ulta-feminine. From all accounts French culture was remarkably sexist in those days (if it isn't now, still) and I can't help thinking there's a kind of ironic appreciation for that era of (perceived) gender-role rigidity in the appreciation of the music. Or rather, the yeh-yeh girls sort of act out this quaint transgression, by which even the "rock out!" numbers sort of reinforce their essential feminity.

Yeah, so, there seems to be a degree of irony in people's appreciation of this music, i.e. the historical distance b/t ourselves and the performances is fetishized rather than bridge. I do this with a lot of music, too (inevitably?) but ultimately I find it more interesting to try to bridge that distance rather than maintain it for the sake of a kind of lifestyle accoutrement.

I guess this isn't much difference from the taste for super-feminine girl group pop in English, but with the added value of being in French, which allows for that "ooh lala" factor that has a similar allure/creepiness. So we can talk about girl groups too.

I should add that something else that fuels my suspicion: much of the sort of retro music that fans of yeh-yeh often enjoy (if the Other Music stock lists, and a few acquaintances, are to be believed) don't interest me at all: twee pop, Bertrand Burgalat, etc.

I like some Francoise Hardy (though it's often too "pretty" and certainly not desert-island stuff) and some France Gall and some of the stuff on that Ultrachicks comp.

I mean I take it for granted that a lot of girl group stuff, and a modicum of yeh-yeh stuff, is just well-done pop music, exciting and inexhaustible. But a lot of it is not, and there's undeniably a fetish-like quality to many people's appreciation of even the subpar stuff.

Do I sound confused? You bet!

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:36 (twenty years ago) link

I probably shouldn't have phrased this in such as a way as implies a judgment of those who like this music (including myself!)

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:40 (twenty years ago) link

Though I suppose this sort of says it all: http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre500/e594/e59400jfq6l.jpg

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:42 (twenty years ago) link

See, this started as a "France Gall, S/D" thread but I was in a grandiose mood...

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:45 (twenty years ago) link

I like Francoise Hardy like I like Nico. There's something sad about her music. I have never thought of her as a cute French girl. I think it being in French helps though - the less I understand what she's singing about, the less I can be disapointed that the lyrics are stupid. (if.)

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:51 (twenty years ago) link

fetishizing obscurities regardless of whether or not they're really that good seems to be a hallmark of most specialist genres - northern soul and psych spring to mind.
interestingly, the few hardcore yeh-yeh enthusiasts i know are girls. hmm... are they secretly longing for a simpler time of lollipops and tight white capris worn without irony?

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:59 (twenty years ago) link

It wasn't all about innocence - what about "Les Sucettes"?

― Susan (Susan), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:16 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah but isn't the whole point of "Les Sucettes" ha ha I naughty Serge have got this innocent poppet to sing my gobbling song?

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:17 (twenty years ago) link

Why do you find ultra-femininity so creepy? And how do you distinguish a fetish from a genuine liking for something?

― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:33 (twenty years ago) link

What I mean is, if I said I liked the image, but not the music, I would be lying just as much as if it were the other way around.

― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:35 (twenty years ago) link

Ultra-feminity.... Well in this context it seems like the flipside to the Misogynst Classix of '60s rock, like Tomorrow's "Revolution," where the sexual (and by extension political/whatever) revolution of that generation is viewed mostly as a means of bagging lots of chicks without having to worry about responsibilities, feelings, etc. I feel like much yeh-yeh retains the submissive aspect of the ulta-feminity but promises a kind of liberation only insofar as their sexual availability is concerned (sort of=the prizing of youth, innocence, and the corrupting of same to be found t/o Serge's work, which likewise is celebrated uncritically by a lot of people I know).

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:52 (twenty years ago) link

hey! don't knock Bertrand, he's a genius.

you can rubbish all that twee pop stuff all you like tho'

key test if you think you're only digging FG because she's French: check out her German period (c.1968-73) and see if you react differently to it.

― zebedee (zebedee), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:53 (twenty years ago) link

In that sense the story of the petite fille (e.g. France Gall above) suddenly open to oral sex, etc. sort of recounts one model of the sexual revolution, the one that was featured in Playboy and so on. Arguably Francoise Hardy was the only one to transcend this sort of clotheshorse image, to gain control over her own image and produce music which sidestepped these issues...and her Asparagus stuff isn't really in the yeh-yeh genre at all, which seems defined in part by girlish female singers performing the male-authored, above-explained idea of feminity and sexual freedom.

X-post. I do like her Asparagus (late-60s) stuff but she still sings in French!

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:56 (twenty years ago) link

isn´t F. Hardy very very overrated, well i fid her boring anyway.
A LOT of ye-ye is boring as with any genre but some records are great pop like france gall, laura ulmer, caroline, brigitte bardot

― Jens (brighter), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:42 (twenty years ago) link

lauren is totally right.
i've found myself becoming a fan of yeh yeh, surf, pacific northwest garage, twee - each time getting to a point where i suddenly realised i didn't even really like the last -insert flavour of the month- obscure record i pined after and finally found.

That being said, this type of behaviour does make you really appreciate other genres - like after a diet of all girl summer fun band xiu xiu totally blew me away and became the best thing ever.

and i should point out that my love for these genres is well connected by the fact that the music within is very similar which readily implies that i actually like the music alot!

ps. does there actually exist a Francoise Hardy/Jaques Dutroc collaboration record???

― ddd (ddd), Thursday, 14 August 2003 18:15 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know if there is a Hardy/Dutronc collaboration LP- I did find a second hand 'Francoise Hardy Jacques Dutronc Ensemble' LP but it was only 60s sides alternating. Slightly irrelevantly, has anyone heard the Francoise Hardy 'In English' LP? It sort of reinforces all the french mystique stuff, as her voice sounds awfully faltering and uncertain in English- it has a naivete that I'd never heard in the french versions (its all translations of ye-ye Vogue stuff)and didn't particularly like. So either it lost something in translation or I was hearing it as anyone who spoke french would, and didn't enjoy it without the linguistic incomprehension. Or maybe its all about syllable sounds.

― Myron Kosloff, Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:51 (twenty years ago) link

To a lot of non-francophones, yé-yé is more kitsch than sex, I suspect.

How was France Gall more of a clotheshorse/male-dominated figure than, say, the Supremes or the Ronnettes?

― J'aime les sucettes (call mr. lee), Thursday, 14 August 2003 23:06 (twenty years ago) link

...although I must say that I find this a bit disturbing.

― J'aime les sucettes (call mr. lee), Thursday, 14 August 2003 23:08 (twenty years ago) link

i desperately want to contribute to this thread but i don't know how

can someone start me off with a compilation title or two?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 14 August 2003 23:09 (twenty years ago) link

Ultra Chicks, Swinging Mademoiselles, and Femmes des Paris are all good. Hard to find in record stores, though.

― J'aime les sucettes (call mr. lee), Thursday, 14 August 2003 23:13 (twenty years ago) link

and for Girl Groups in general? beyond the Girls in the Garage comps of course..

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 14 August 2003 23:20 (twenty years ago) link

Here Come the Girls series, RPM's Dreambabes series, Ace's Early Girls series

― rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 14 August 2003 23:23 (twenty years ago) link

I do not think my taste for girl singers (French, British, American, etc.) is ironic.

(FG's German stuff is great!)

― rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 14 August 2003 23:25 (twenty years ago) link

Growin' Up Too Fast: The Girl Group Anthology

― J'aime les sucettes (call mr. lee), Thursday, 14 August 2003 23:25 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...

france gall!

― cºzen (Cozen), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I do like girl group/girl singer compilations, but mainly because I love the production values of '60s pop and soul, and girls sing way better than guys anyway, as a general rule.

The Here Come the Girls series, judging from the four or five titles I own, is really really really excellent. Go download Tammy St. John's "Dark Shadows and Empty Hallways" immediately.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link

There's a Girls With Guitars comp that's a cash-in on Girls in the Garage but except for a few tracks it's not a very rewarding listen.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 17:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Those couple of good tracks (if'n yr interested) are the Beattle-ettes' "Only Seventeen" and the Tomboys' "I'd Rather Fight Than Switch."

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 17:34 (nineteen years ago) link

my favorite girlfrog is brigitte fontaine:

http://img.thefreedictionary.com/wiki/3/34/BrigitteFontaine&AreskiBelkacemVousetNous.jpg

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

That De Serge Gainsbourg à Gainsbarre DVD has some amazing video with France Gall.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...

so wait that france gall box set is out of print and like $100+ now? wtf?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 18 March 2005 07:17 (nineteen years ago) link

"nous ne sommes pas des anges" is a really catchy song, although the lyrics are dumb and extremely dated

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 20 March 2005 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Does anyone know where I can get more material by francoise from the swinging mademoiselles comp? I can find exactly ZERO info online and my vinyl doesnt have the insert with it............

― snata cat, Wednesday, 23 March 2005 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

SEARCH: Gall and Gainsbourg performing "Dents De Lait, Dents De Loup" on some french TV show (it's on the De Serge Gainsbourg à Gainsbarre DVD).

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link

What about Ye-Ye music?

Search: "Dracula Ye-Ye", Dr. Explosion (a retro cover version)

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link

three years pass...

This video looks like it was made yesterday!

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtYxjjRQvH4

― baaderonixx, Friday, 26 September 2008 09:23 (fifteen years ago) link

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtYxjjRQvH4&feature=related

― baaderonixx, Friday, 26 September 2008 09:24 (fifteen years ago) link

grrr... how do you embed?!

― baaderonixx, Friday, 26 September 2008 09:24 (fifteen years ago) link

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