This is a bit of a simmering issue that might or might not have ever been fully discussed/played out on the boards -- I know it's been addressed here and there, but not I think a whole thread on the subject. Maura just now reminded me of it with her post on
the Billboard Singles Top 50 thread. To quote:
looking at even half of the hot 100 makes it very obvious that the us and uk 'pro-pop' ideals are completely different animals. being 'pro-pop' over here to me is like saying 'hooray for stagnancy determined in large part by playing people 15-second snippets of songs over crappy phone connections!' (nb: i was part of a clear channel focus group for about four or five months earlier this year -- it was for their dance station arm, which meant i got to tell them that i 'never liked' every j lo single, and to play more old freestyle)
So the question is, is there really a difference as Maura described? Are the UK charts more 'pure' in comparison? Are viewpoints on the charts and pop suffering from too much cynicism from a US point of view or too much in the way of rose-colored glasses from a UK one, or is that even a correct question to ask? And what about other countries and their charts, etc. etc.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 21 September 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)
The difference is that 'pop' is a genre in the UK, and it isn't in the US. UK critics ascribe various aesthetic values to 'pop'; US critics just see as it meaning you're on the charts.
Why? Because the US has lots of indigenous genre traditions--jazz, rock, hip-hop etc. The UK has none, so it has invented this thing called 'pop' to hold all the values associated with creating music out of 'found' sources.
Fire away ;o)
― Ben Williams, Sunday, 21 September 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)
As UK charts are different to the US, so are the ones in continental Europe to both, I think. US pop regime seems very ruthless and heavily industrialized - after all, they're the ones making most profit and have most at stake. In UK there's this hyping machine that tries to make the pushed single an event and propel to no1, but their pop artists have zero appeal to US and mostly don't do that well in the rest of Europe nowadays.
On the other hand... The German pop scene seems less forced, more organic. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but German pop singles don't seem to be that heavily promoted - they prosper or fail on the back of airplay on sat channels like the German MTV and Viva (which extend the influence to Eastern Europe) and appearances on numerous Now!-type comps. Whereas compared to hyper-sexualized US pop same attempts on the UK behalf seem poor and terribly lacking, the German pop has found a way to be hard-edged and appeal to kids without being overtly sexual (or having that creepy disonance a la Cheeky Girls, infantile electro-pop ditties backed with videos that look like commercials for Rocco Sifriedi movies). Case in point is the current rave-pop revival, where throbbing hard as nails post-hard-house basscapes are cut with singalong utopian childlike-wonder-naivette passages.
Also, Germany's got a surprisingly good Pop Idol scene ("suprisingly good" = No Angels' beautiful breezy mediterranean ballad "Still In Love With You", plus a few very good Jeanette singles, including this year's pop-rockout smash "Right Now" = more than I had any right to expect), and they have a knack for bizarre career resurrections (Manowar in the charts in 2003!!!). But the German pop market can get too fixated on one thing at a time (German rap a few years ago, then pop-trance, now nu-rave or whatever it should be called), and it's not as diverse and fun as Italian pop market.
Now, Italian video channels... they're fantastic. Play all sorts of stuff, from Brit sensitive guitar-types and fresh R&B to contemporary autotune-happy italo disco and full on orgasmatronic mexican pop, functioning as a sort of crossing path of international pop trade - they were caning Las Ketchup few months before they broke big, and now I'm hoping the same will happen with Lorna's "Papichulo". Italian sat channels like Deejay and Hit Channel would be a dream come true for most pro-pop people here, I wager, if only they'd be able to watch and hear them.
― Mind Taker, Sunday, 21 September 2003 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)
When I was in Italy, it seemed like the only song playing on the radio was The Roots' The Seed 2.0. I heard it in every cafe, taxi, and passing car.
― Melissa W (Melissa W), Sunday, 21 September 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)