Busta/Pharrell "Light Your Ass On Fire", is that the cheapest beat ever, or what?

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Come on, I thought the Neptunes were supposed to make awesome beats and backing tracks. ALl this was was a "boom - tiss boom boom tiss -" with a short and heavy delay on it. I completely recreated it on my Korg ES-1 in 2 minutes (and theres a MAJOR difference in when Millar says he completely recreates something on his RS7000 in 2 minutes and I say I do it in 2 minutes on a much cheaper piece of gear. He's like a pro at the shit). Now I can't diss Busta, he comes through like a motherfucker on this track, but the production just shows laziness. I guess someone could argue that the lack of production on the beat was meant to accentuate the lyrical skills of Busta, but (A) Busta doesn't need that and (B) fuck off.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 27 September 2003 02:53 (twenty-two years ago)

did you get your tracks on the radio?

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 27 September 2003 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

or is this like nickalicious mythical proto-timbaland tapes with his little sister rapping better than missy on them?

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 27 September 2003 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)

have a bit of imagination! i don't care if the neptunes are just clapping two sticks together, if it's good it's good. i don't really like this song.

― minna (minna), Saturday, 27 September 2003 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

ppl always hate on 'cheap' production but whenever its puff daddy disco lushness they hate that too, WHAT DO YOU WHITE PEOPLE WANT!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Saturday, 27 September 2003 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

It's sounds like a motherfucker booming out of a trunk though, which I think is what really matters.

― d.w., Saturday, 27 September 2003 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I a sucker for totally falling in love with this beat the first time I heard it then? I really dig that high-strung boom bap. I dunno, I also really loved the "Can't Stop Won't Stop" beat a LOT, which I've come to realize is considered to be really cheap and crappy by everyone else who hears it too.

― Adrian (Adrian Langston), Saturday, 27 September 2003 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

of course, "i'm so clean/call a nigga Felix Unger" could make up for the crappiest beat anyway

― Adrian (Adrian Langston), Saturday, 27 September 2003 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

the can't stop won't stop beat is better than this

― minna (minna), Saturday, 27 September 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

not their best beat... it does seem the neptunes are starting to fall into a formula (debatable of when they started to). the lack of formula is what made them so fucking amazing & kings of radio. think back to all the big hiphop hits in 2002... id bet a 90% chance the 'tunes produced that tune. still, pharell & chad, along with timbo & missy, are holding down va beach and the entire nation. with so much neptunes saturation in pop music right now (even remixing no doubt), i think its quite amazing they still make addictive songs even if they may sound the same-ish. anyways, w/ the new nerd album should be interesting...

― Michael Ng (Mike Ng), Saturday, 27 September 2003 04:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I like this! It's like the spring-loaded robot-"Grindin"

― rob geary (rgeary), Saturday, 27 September 2003 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

grindin is one my fave beats from the neptunes. simply nothing else on the radio sounding like it....

― Michael Ng (Mike Ng), Saturday, 27 September 2003 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

sounds like they took some sounds from mariopaint.

― your null fame (yournullfame), Saturday, 27 September 2003 05:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The idea that Busta's flow is a good one is hilarious! This beat(and song) is(are) whack for more reasons than simply being uncomplicated.

― D Aziz (esquire1983), Saturday, 27 September 2003 06:04 (twenty-two years ago)

OK OK OK, I admit, since Busta is fillin' the flow it sounds *ok*.

And Gabbo, no I do not have a track on the radio and I do no t expect to have a track on the radio any time soon. But then again, I am not a member of one of the most prolific hiphop production crews around and I am definetely not Busta Rhymes.

I'm just saying that with the caliber of people working on this track the beat is way less than to be expected. Being an active tape 4-track-recording, drummachine-using, my own crappy keyboard lines-sampling punkrocker, I think that the Neptunes kids should at least put as much effort into what they do now as in that ODB track "Got Your Money". Which was bangin all the way as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe it's just one of those "I can do that just fuckin' around, why is it on radio?" kinda things, but c'mon, these guys can pay for my new car in 15 minutes doing that shit.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 27 September 2003 06:17 (twenty-two years ago)

and i can bang out "louie louie" on a piano right this fucking second.

doesn't take away from the skillz of the guys who WROTE it.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 27 September 2003 06:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Then again the Troggs weren't a 21st century highly revered hip-hop production crew. You gotta understand, with people this rich (money-wise), in a hip-hop environment, bare-bones, put-together-in-5-minutes stuff just doesn't (A) cut it, or (B) deserve to have Busta rap over it and make a single, I don't know which. I just feel like they were either short-changing Busta or me/us or both.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 27 September 2003 06:38 (twenty-two years ago)

so helltime write me a DIFFERENT beat that busta sounds BETTER over.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 27 September 2003 06:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Look. Busta is a common denominator in this shit, he can sound good over ANYTHING. I'm no master producer (like the Neptunes are, perhaps), but the stuff I have been putting down lately at LEAST shows more effort and concern (and possibly groove) that this track we're talking about.

OK, I'm beyond drunk now (as you all should know, because you know I only come around here whilst drunk), but when I wake up, I'll try and work that GOLDWAVE thing that Dino made me download and try and post some loops I've made recently. If I can figger out the html stuff.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 27 September 2003 06:56 (twenty-two years ago)

did the troggs do a version of "louie louie"?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 27 September 2003 07:39 (twenty-two years ago)

showing effort and concern is a good thing?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 27 September 2003 07:40 (twenty-two years ago)

why does put-together in five minutes stuff not 'cut it'?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 27 September 2003 07:41 (twenty-two years ago)

also the idea that somehow something sparse takes 5 minutes is so fucking idiotic anyway, did it ever occur to you it could have taken weeks of stripping down a big phat ass beat to that? even if this isn't the case it's a good general way to look at these things.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 27 September 2003 08:35 (twenty-two years ago)

i couldn't give a toss either way this time, i like the track a lot

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 27 September 2003 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

>did you get your tracks on the radio?

Never forget, kids: commercial success = artistic success.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 27 September 2003 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The cheaper the better.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 27 September 2003 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha Ha! "ass"!

― adaml (adaml), Saturday, 27 September 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, like, dude... have you heard the Ramones? They suck! It's like the cheapest guitar sound ever - I can do better, like Phish.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 27 September 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Suzanne Vega was so cheap she sometimes wouldn't even pay for a backing track. Don't get me started on those tight-fisted throat singers!

― adaml (adaml), Saturday, 27 September 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't really think Helltime has a point, but "the Neptunes have their tracks on the radio and you don't!" is a pretty lame criticism of his argument, a shade away from (if that) "if you think this is so bad why don't you do something better!" the worst anti-criticism line ever.

obviously it's mitigated by the fact that Helltime is claiming to be able to "do it," though I still can't believe some of you are taking that line.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 27 September 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

if someone says "I can do that" than "no you can't" is an acceptable rebuttal

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 27 September 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

being able to imitate something doesn't mean being able to pull it off in a social context that will actually make it mean anything to anyone other than you. there are a lot bigger forces at work re. "being on the radio" than simply commerce.

also, starting threads where you pimp your bedroom production skillz is lame.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 27 September 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

"anyone" could make that beat, just like anyone could loop a breakbeat, or play guitar like the ramones. but unless you have the guts or the foresight to put it out there FIRST, when no one's proved the formula, then step the fuck off.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 27 September 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"my five year old coulda painted that!"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 27 September 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

lumidee can't sing

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Saturday, 27 September 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Guts and foresight, yus, but let's not overlook sheer luck.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 27 September 2003 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

those who fail to plan plan to fail

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 27 September 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah ned, it's not like the neptunes have only been making beats for two years.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 27 September 2003 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

god this thread is fucked up. some of the best writers on ILM in DMB fan soundalike shockah. :-(

My production skills or lack thereof aside, I had a similar reaction to Helltime when I heard this track. The beats just sound bland and somewhat gimmicky to me, and ARE easy to recreate, though:
1. "Grindin'" is pretty simple in musical terms, and yet it is one of the most effective beats that I have heard. Whenever I hear it I stand up and get all gospel-like and clap along.
2. I figured out an easy way to make "shuffletech" beats on Reason, and since I have the demo, which shuts off after 20 minutes, I have figured out a way to make those beats in that amount of time or less, and yet I still love those tracks, and I dont think any less of them.

Also: "what exists at this very moment is how it will always be" is obviously a dud, so lets not use that line of argument agaisnt Helltime, just as it wouldnt apply to the Neptunes, who are at this moment all over the radio, but at one time were just a pair of guys with a few synths in their bedrooms too. Does this mean that Helltime, or anybody else on this board will be famous like them? Not necessarily, but the reason for that is different than the fallacy enumerated above.

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Saturday, 27 September 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe the good thing about all of this is that the love for the Neptunes will at some point become as overbearing of that of the beatles, and then some kid will come along and say "the Neptunes suck" and proceed to prove it. ;-)

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Saturday, 27 September 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently he dude at synaesthesia records thinks that the Neptunes bit their beats off Pan Sonic. I haven't checked up on this.

I haven't heard this song either, but I don't think Grindin is as simple as it sounds. Did anyone realise that there is no kick on the first beat? Idunno, either that or the snare isn't on the second beat, it really confused me when I tried to put an acapella on it.

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Saturday, 27 September 2003 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess i'm kicking at a bit of a dead horse, but i would also like to point out that the heavy/short reverb on the drums in "light your ass on fire" sound totally wicked over a huge system. the dj dropped this track on the biggest system in my city after a ewan pearson track and it sounded like the next wave of microhouse or something.

rave-riffs blah blah micro shudders of ecstasy blah blah blah, anyway it's the next step past "nuthin" or "southern hospitality", compressing those spine-tingling noises INTO the grindin beat and not just on top.

― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 28 September 2003 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

also the "why is it so popular?" and "can you do better" argument on this thread is different from the way it's used on DMB threads. the point about social context is obviously key here.

― vahid (vahid), Sunday, 28 September 2003 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"compressing those spine-tingling noises INTO the grindin beat and not just on top."

yeah, that's what i was thinking of when I called the beat high-strung. something about it just sounds like... buildings crashing, I dunno. It's pretty hot, at any rate.

― Adrian (Adrian Langston), Sunday, 28 September 2003 03:17 (twenty-two years ago)

my friend described it as a steamroller with irregularly octagonal wheels

― minna (minna), Sunday, 28 September 2003 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)

busta is what ruins it. i don't like him. i hate that he just talks over it all. he keeps saying 'hmmm.' it needs someone really smooth to just flow over it. not someone who is famous, either. someone obscure who didn't care how crazy it sounded and their voice mixed really high or loud or whatever. lil wayne. it shouldn't be about women and it should be about twenty percent slower and it should have some high pitched whistling noises.

― d k (d k), Sunday, 28 September 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

heh, the first time I heard this I was like shit, because I *did* do a beat like it a few months ago (well not really, but I put drums through the exact same metallic effect, but mine was 32nd note marching drums through it, not the main kick/snare like their beat). but I still totally loved it because it sounds great.

anyway, it's really not anymore minimal than 90% of Neptunes beats. they do have a pretty narrow range of rhythms and BPM's that they usually use, but the actual formula is to put a different instrument or bell or whistle over each track, and sometimes it sounds great, sometimes it sounds lame.

― Al (sitcom), Sunday, 28 September 2003 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

dk otm

― lil's, Sunday, 28 September 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

it shouldn't be about women

it's not, it's about ASS - granted a woman's ass - maybe Busta should've written it about the machinations of capitalism being oiled by the blood of the workers?

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 28 September 2003 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently he dude at synaesthesia records thinks that the Neptunes bit their beats off Pan Sonic. I haven't checked up on this.

Yeah, Mark mentioned something like that to me too - I'm not sure whether or not I buy it, interesting perspective tho.

Obv the Nep's have diverse taste in music (Remember a FACE feature where they're picking up a Broadcast LP), but everyone with ultimately project their own tastes (or productions) onto the they get into - it's just speculative or illustrative at the end of day...

But don't like the negativity of Helltime Producto - this beat is fuckin' awesome; sounds like some Microhouse/Hip-Hop crossover...

― Michael Dieter, Monday, 29 September 2003 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

you is wack - this song is shit anyway.

The Roscoe P Chain track Hot is the only good one on that Clones album and it is the most minimal.

― Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Monday, 29 September 2003 05:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't wait to hear what the Neptunes can do with a Casio VL-Tone drumbeat!!!!!

― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Monday, 29 September 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

it shouldn't be about women and it should be about twenty percent slower and it should have some high pitched whistling noises

2/3 of this would make pretty much any song good.

― dleone (dleone), Monday, 29 September 2003 11:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently he dude at synaesthesia records thinks that the Neptunes bit their beats off Pan Sonic. I haven't checked up on this.

Nah, bollox, Pan Sonic sound like what happens when you turn up your amp v loud and tap the input sockets with a messed up deck. ie not much like 'Like I Love You'.

― Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 29 September 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"mythical"

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 September 2003 12:05 (twenty-two years ago)

six months pass...

Why don't you people concentrate on producing your own stuff instead of complaning about someone who is successful due to their meritworthy work in the industry?

― playaaplaydat, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Meritworthy, we're fucking meritworthy.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

you know, i realized today that the problem i have with the neptunes isn't pharrell or ubiquity or anything else its that they could churn out so much shit (non-pejoratively) in 2003 that most of their best beats got lost in the slough, stuff that would have made first time producers careers, etc.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Their hit to miss ratio is getting kind of high. This track is still fucking incredible though. I don't care how long it took them to do.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

all of their big beats last were good but the smaller ones were better. that worries me.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Which smaller ones?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

"bellydancer", "va banger", "la, la, la (excuse me miss again)", did they do "quarterbackin"?

(as compared to "beautiful", "change clothes", "light your ass on fire", etc...which i think are good, if not as good.)

(except for change clothes which still bugs the fuck out of me.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they did "Quarterbackin". But "Milkshake" has to be their biggest hit from last year and that's as good those great smaller tracks you mention (plus "Bellydancer" would have been the biggest dancehall/hip hop crossover of last year if SOMEONE had gotten around to really releasing the damn thing.)

The four tracks you mention are definitely better than the other three (PLUS "Frontin" sigh.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

GAAAAH can we plz kick "Frontin'" in the nuts?

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

oh god yeah, "frontin". haha it's really saying something that i prefer the fucking jazzanova remix.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Ouch.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

it's actually quite good.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not gonna go frontin on jazzanova. now, excuse me, my brie and apples await.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

ea-ski and cmt did quarterbackin.

― ww, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

DEDUCT ONE POINT, NEPTUNES

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I like Frontin' and Change Clothes. A lot. Got something to say about it?

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

no, but i'll be happy to give you a wedgie if i'm ever in new orleans

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

what r u on about, bellydancer came out on full pic 12! e crunk even saw in some magazine that jade jagger has a copy lying around the flat. maybe the horrible elephant in the rheum is it's so Impressive it's kinda hard to enjoy?

strongo do u mean YAM WHO??? they r from manchester, that rae and christian, mr scruff cabal

― prima fassy (mwah), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess i do.

scale of neptunes can only be measured in america these days by number of times song is played on radio and the various mtv's.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)

yam who work amazingly hard to find commercial stuff to hate on! theyve done 'get by', allen anthony - 'alright' and 'didnt you know' too

― prima fassy (mwah), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Certainly '02 Neptunes beats the pants off '03 Neptunes (a comp of their best '02 beats would be unstoppable i think!). Maybe '04 Neptunes will be a return to form.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 23 April 2004 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Signs Point To No.

― Magic Alex Ball (Alex in SF), Friday, 23 April 2004 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Full pic 12" aren't exactly a SUBSTITUTE for CD singles or GOD FORBID an actual album release (those things which usually prompt advertising push and radio play in the states.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 23 April 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I was deliberately annoying the curious absence of good Nep beats at the mo. But then I only realised how great a year '02 was for them towards the end of the year. Hot In Herre, Grindin', Nothin', Nigga Please, Rock Your Body, Ego etc. etc.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 23 April 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Unfortunately by all accounts the new Clipse record isn't supposed to be that hot. I think they may need to find new muses to work with, frankly.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 23 April 2004 01:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that the old-new Clipse record or the new-new Clipse record?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 23 April 2004 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i read something about the clipse totally re-doing the album after the label drama a month or so ago. something to do with chad and pharrell splitting with arista. but i'm not sure exactly what happened.

― ww, Friday, 23 April 2004 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually I'm not sure which new Clipse album I didn't hear was hot. I assume it was the old-new one.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 23 April 2004 02:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently the one that was floating around on the interweb a while back was made up of stuff they did pre-Lord Willin.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 23 April 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The new one has an R Kelly track I think?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 23 April 2004 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

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