Miles Davis - The complete Jack Johnson sessions - 5 discs??

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As much as i'd love to hear these and they are probably amazing. 5 discs???
Damn, i have to hear Sonny Sharrock on guitar from these sessions too.

yaeger, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Well you can hear on the original album at (I assume) a fifth of the cost. Funny, I was back up in the old hometown last week and considering what albums to bring back down to London and that was one of the ones I pulled out - because, altho I remember liking it, I don't remember it being that great and it isn't really that great

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 11:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, maybe not as good as some of the others from the same period (Live-Evil, It's About that Time) doesn't mean not that great. I think Miles Davis released so much incredible stuff between 68-71 that not all of it is given its rightful props.

I also assume that for anyone not wanting to invest in 5-discs that Columbia will eventually reissue the single album like they did for In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew.

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm... I just want Pangea and Agharta to be remastered, it's not much to ask, is it? Though I want ...Jack Johnson too...

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I want Pangea and Agharta remastered too. So anyway, I think its weird that they release the "complete sessions" before you can just go get it remastered THE WAY IT WAS MADE TO BE. Fukt.

Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

It's all about the collectors and obsessive consumers. ie, most of ILM. As a bonus, the complete sessions issued so far have been pretty damn good.

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 12:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll hang on till the album itself sans bonus stuff gets released, liek i did with In A Silent Way. I already made the mistake with Bitches Brew... I never listen to supplementary material. :(

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I just can't understand the critical reputation of different records in this period of Miles's career. The most universally loved are "In A Silent Way" and "Jack Johnson" neither of which do much for me. "Bitches Brew" and "Filles De Kilimanjaro", which have more problematic reputations, both sound much better.

ArfArf, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I just want Pangea and Agharta to be remastered, it's not much to ask, is it?

The thing is, they ARE remastered (I was just listening to them this morning and checked b/c the same thing had occurred to me, too). Sure, it was 1991, but the sound is decent.

If anything, they're mixed differently/worse than Dark Magus et al b/c there's a ton more hall sound in the mix. As a result, they sometimes sound like you're about 200 yards from the speakers and Miles' trumpet--so distorted and wah-ed on Live Evil and Dark Magus--is a little lost amidst all the reverb.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

If you really want to hear Agharta and Pangaea, scour eBay, gemm.com et al, and get the Japanese MasterSound editions from a few years ago (1996?) Not only are they much better-sounding (clearer, cleaner mix; you can hear every instrument instead of a wash of sound), there's more music on 'em. Agharta has about 10 extra minutes at the end of Disc Two, and Pangaea has about 3 extra minutes, also at the end of Disc Two. Well worth the search.

I really like the Jack Johnson box (if you wanna know how much, read my review in this month's Wire). My favorite thing about it is the Sonny Sharrock material, followed closely by the various chunks of "Go Ahead John." All the tracks that were assembled into the final mastered version (which is one of my favorite Miles pieces anyway) are heard separately, and without the speaker-switching effect that annoys so many people (not me).

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha, I was just gonna ask if they've got versions of these sessions without the borderline-tedious stereo-panning tomfoolery! Yay!

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i am looking forward to picking this box up soon. i never seem to tire of this period in miles' career. usually the single disc remasters have preceded the boxes, but that doesnt seem to be the case this time. i didnt see any single discs in the receiving room at my store.

my favorite album from this period btw is Get Up With It.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

my personal dream: if and when the Live Evil box is released it will have half-hour versions of "little church" and "selim". also maybe a five minute pop variation on "sivad", that would be hip.

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I passed on the Bitches Brew box but heard the In A Silent Way box was great, so I do have that one, and play all the supplemental material often. The only thing that bugs me a little is the fact that two tracks from Filles are on there. Yeah I know they were recorded during the later sessions, but I don't like the uniqueness of Filles to be interrupted.

Jack Johnson was one of my very favorites. I played it constantly, but it's gotten a bit less mileage in recent years. I'm most likely getting the box, though.

Sean (Sean), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

>if and when the Live Evil box is released

I am drooling to hear this stuff. Supposedly it's six CDs worth of material, all live from the Cellar Door over three nights. Only two of the six discs will feature John McLaughlin.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i didnt even know that there was going to be a live evil box!

what other boxes are planned?
i am wondering about the "seven steps to berlin" box which is going to cove the period between the two quintets. will any sam rivers material be on there? did he even do anything in the studio with miles? or is there just that one hard to find "live in tokyo(?)" cd?

sean they expect you to buy the second quintet box which doesnt have the material on the silent way box that was on Filles ;-)

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I do think 5 discs of Jack Johnson is excessive. I've been listening to it and while all the music is good, I just don't need that many alternate versions. There are 6 versions of one track, 5 of another. I'd rather hear edited highlights than every single note Sonny Sharrock played. 2 discs, 3 at the most, would have done me fine. But I guess they've reached the point with these reissues where they don't feel the need to edit any more.

Ben Williams, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

If someone, say, just wanted to download the highlights from the unreleased Sonny Sharrock stuff, what would he look for?

Sonny A. (Keiko), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The first 6 tracks, all titled Willie Nelson, are the ones with Sharrock on, I believe. I couldn't tell you which one is the best, every time I listen to it they all blur into the same funk bassline with jamming over the top. Sonny gets off some nice effects tho.

Ben Williams, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

As far as I know, Rivers never entered the studio with Miles; he was only in the band for six months at the outside, so all that remains is Miles In Tokyo (which has been reissued in a Japanese remastered mini-LP package, and sounds fantastic).

>There are 6 versions of one track, 5 of another.

Well, what you're hearing isn't "alternate takes" as much as tracks which were heavily post-produced by Teo Macero, broken down into their component parts. For example, "Go Ahead John" appears in five chunks on the box, but they're not separate takes because all five were combined to make up the Big Fun version.

I will admit, though, that I could have done without all the little pieces on Disc Four (the various versions of "Sivad" and "Nem Um Talvez"). There's this incredibly ugly noise-skronk track called "The Mask" on Disc Five, though, that's amazing. Makes "Rated X" seem like Muzak, in the beginning anyway (later it settles into a groove).

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I am drooling to hear this stuff. Supposedly it's six CDs worth of material, all live from the Cellar Door over three nights. Only two of the six discs will feature John McLaughlin.

Keith Jarrett has said that the band from this period was actually better w/o McLaughlin -- that he disrupted the band's flow to an extent (a theory borne out, to some degree, by "Gemini/Double Image" on Live-Evil). He thought the McLaughlin-less group really hit its peak on a week-long date in Boston that was recorded by audience member and future Weather Report bassist, Miroslav Vitous. Even if the sound-quality isn't fantastic, I bet it would be a fascinating listen.

But hell, I'd love to hear the unedited "Sivad"...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to hear that stuff. But Keith Jarrett's account of his time with Miles always seems slightly self-serving to me. Put it this way, I trust Miles knew which stuff to put out...

Ben Williams, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Does this have ANYTHING to do with that guy from Dawson's Creek?

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I real curious about the albums " Get up with it" and "On the Corner"
I keep hearing good things about these 2 but never heard either one?
Which of these 2 should i get first???

yaeger, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Get Get Up With It first. It's a double CD with lots of variation; each track sounds different from the others. On The Corner is one of my favorite Miles Davis albums, but I don't recommend it to new listeners. It's very unremitting, very harsh, ugly-seeming, deliberately off-putting. Its beauty only really emerges with time and repeated listening.

I like the disruption of the band on Live-Evil. I don't think Jarrett really liked being in Miles' band very much. I know Miles antagonized him - telling other players (Michael Henderson in particular) not to follow Jarrett when he began a keyboard solo, etc. Note that after leaving Miles' employ, Jarrett abandoned the electric keyboard for good. While his contributions were occasionally interesting, I think Hancock and Corea did much better by Davis in the 70s. And I think the best stuff of all is when there's no keyboards at all (like the 1981-82 band heard on We Want Miles), and a lot of the Jack Johnson box.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, come on! I'll grant that he's an arrogant prick who was upset that he was forced to play electric keyboards, but Jarrett's on FIRE on Live-Evil! His playing on "What I Say" is out of control gospel fury. His improvisation w/ the out-of-tune Rhodes on "Funky Tonk" is brilliant. I don't doubt that Miles antagonized him for a second, but his contributions are incredible.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know. Some of that stuff is good, but honestly, my favorite live album from that period (1969-1971) is Black Beauty, by a long stretch. Corea's keyboard sounds like a frying circuit board.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Phil, what's your take on It's About that Time. The more I listen, the more I think it's one of the very best from fusion era Miles.

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

When I first got it, I didn't like it; thought the mix was too blaring and raw, making it hard to figure out what was going on. But the more I listen to it, the more I like it. It's just a matter of getting adjusted to the very headlong, assaultive feel of the band and the material.

There's another album by that band, recorded in June 1969 in Juan-Les-Pins, France, available on a few different bootleg labels. Funnily enough, the one I have (on the German Jazz Door label) is also called It's About That Time.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I remember that - I think I heard it in college or something, and when they reissued this one, I thought it was supposed to be that one. And I agree, the whole sound of the shows is very raw - but to me, it makes it even closer to rock, and probably the "hardest" fusion Miles played, at least pre-Dark Magus and the '75 stuff.

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, it's amazing; when you listen to that stuff, the later addition of electric guitars almost seems redundant. At least until 1973 or so, when he went full-on Funkadelic.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone here ever heard either of those What I Say records on JMY? I have one of them, w/ a poorly-recorded tape of the band at Fillmore West in 1970 where they play a version of "Directions" that is just unbelievable.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

And are you guys referring to the Bitches Brew-era quintet recording It's About That Time?

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

>Has anyone here ever heard either of those What I Say records on JMY?

I have both of 'em. The one you're describing is Vol. 2; it's half from 1970 and half from 1971. Vol. 1 is all 1971, and I like it a little better. "Directions" is not one of my favorite pieces these days; I've been listening to tons of live boots for research, and it's on every single one of them, so I'm at the point now where if I hear that melody one more time I'm gonna tear my ears off my head.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

"Directions" is not one of my favorite pieces these days; I've been listening to tons of live boots for research, and it's on every single one of them, so I'm at the point now where if I hear that melody one more time I'm gonna tear my ears off my head.

Ha! But you have to admit, the moment where the tempo shifts down and DeJohnette turns into Clyde Stubblefield is fucking aces.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 21:42 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...
Has anyone seen the Jack Johnson documentary film?

Mark Rich@rdson, Friday, 18 May 2007 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

eight years pass...

jfc what is going on in the "Willie Nelson [insert 2]" track

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:14 (ten years ago)

is that the stuff w/ sharrock? that stuff is nuts. think miles comes out of the haze at some point and is like "that's some nasty shit, y'all"... which must've pleased everyone involved, haha.

tylerw, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:18 (ten years ago)

haven't looked up who's on what - it has a bunch of atonal guitar scraping/noise combined with what sounds like some kind of analog synth but I'm not really sure tbh

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:21 (ten years ago)

wiki sez it's McLaughlin? and no synth credit so maybe it's all pedals idk

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:26 (ten years ago)

think sharrock is doing the echoplex-y action on "willie nelson" (tho maybe not the take you're talking about). and it's probably chick corea doing the nutso organ.

tylerw, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:29 (ten years ago)

yeah it does sound like an echoplex

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:30 (ten years ago)

and probably mclaughlin on that wah-ed out guitar... pretty crazy stuff.

tylerw, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:32 (ten years ago)

yeah, it feels like the most aggro thing on here.

ha Miles mumbling at the end of some of these tracks is a treat.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:36 (ten years ago)

ha Miles mumbling at the end of some of these tracks is a treat.

How is there not a Having Fun With Miles Davis In The Studio type release? Surely there's enough "Let's hear some of that, Teo" to fill an LP.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:44 (ten years ago)

plus 20 minutes of miles' finger snaps counting off tunes

tylerw, Thursday, 22 October 2015 19:46 (ten years ago)

love that "Willie Nelson" disc of the set so goddamn much

sleeve, Thursday, 22 October 2015 20:52 (ten years ago)

yeah so good. disc four of this set gets a little dull, but for the most part it is a great great thing.

tylerw, Thursday, 22 October 2015 20:54 (ten years ago)

I think I've asked this before but does anyone have any idea why Miles would name a song after Willie Nelson? I mean the music obviously bears no relation, it just seems like a random name to use

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 October 2015 21:02 (ten years ago)

they had the same manager at the time, weirdly enough. but i think i read somewhere that miles liked willie's phrasing.

tylerw, Thursday, 22 October 2015 21:05 (ten years ago)


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