the gourds 'gin & juice'

*dodges tomatos*

Ha, well it just goes to show you The Face doesn't know shit. The zeitgeist was being given away free by Uncut a couple of years ago and no-one noticed...

It's strange that you immediately went for "people from Austin can't like rap" and got hostile because I called a cover ironic. When did ironic become a dirty word? Irony can be a good thing, as the Gourds demonstrate.

(ps the cover of Ziggy Stardust on that album is almost as good)

its not contrary to what they INTENDED! i mean -- they DID it!

and its not contrary to what they expected -- again, they expected to play a country cover of a snoop song!

i went for "people from austin can't like rap" coz you were the one who started talking about the irony involving they fact they were white and from austin.

It is contrary to expectations from the audience (not anymore, but when I first heard it in a UT dorm room in 1999, I wasn't expecting it). Covering material not usually dealt with by alt.country/bluegrass, by an artist not usually associated with by alt.country/bluegrass, etc. etc. etc..

And, Sterling, check it again - I never said anything about "white."

But I think I'm missing the problem here. Was characterizing "Gin and Juice" as ironic unfairly dismissive in a way that I was completely unaware of?

the austin thing is even weirder though -- like just coz its not LA or what?

the problem i have is if "ironic" is has to be contrary to someone's expectations, then the audience isn't a good bet!

coz that would make liz phair's new album "ironic". (although there is an irony to the indie-queen going pop and pissing her fans off the album itself isn't "ironic"!)

Of all the possible 'scenes', hip-hop would come in dead last in Austin. Blues, alt.country, various indie stuff, a lot of raves when I was down there last. It's not a hip-hop place.

If audience expectations/reaction aren't applicable, there could be no purposeful irony - because the art would just come out as the artist intended. Irony would only exist if the artist screws up.

It would have been ironic for a seminal punk-rocker (Lydon) to come out with an album that completely embraced prog-rock a couple of years later. Metal Box wasn't that strange or ironic, coming from where punk had gone since 1975-8.

Bluegrass and hip-hop are polar opposites on the landscape of American music. (Alt.country somewhat so in '98-9) ILM skews toward people who can love both - but the main audience for each aren't likely to crossover.

I find the lack of sarcasm ("Boyz in the Hood") is precisely why the Gourds' managed to do a good ironic rap cover. There's no condescension or meanness, just a knowing wink.

When a band covers a pop song ironically, it means they have no respect for the source material, it's like they're saying, "This song usually sucks. We're gonna make it sound right!" There's none of that in this song.

Austin does have a hip-hop station I'm sure - but of the possible scenes, that comes in low. Blues, alt.country and indie-whatever are the genesis of Austin's reputation, and still the most popular genres.

I agree. But the "ironic rap/pop cover" as a category usually implies a certain amount of snarkiness.

Right, and I don't think the hip-hop station's demographic features country/bluegrass guys terribly prominently.