dizzee rascal in the sunday new yuck times

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i'm too sleepy to read it now but dig that jacket

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 14 December 2003 10:30 (twenty-two years ago)

hope this works

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 14 December 2003 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Nice to see Dizzee get some American press. New 'Yuck' Times though? Why the hate?

Iam Anonentity, Sunday, 14 December 2003 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha, "The Eskimo Dance"; say it like that and it sounds like something people might do at wedding receptions.

Dan I., Sunday, 14 December 2003 10:47 (twenty-two years ago)

no comics!

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 14 December 2003 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

weird tension there between understanding that Dizzee is grime and where grime came from, and then sticking grime under the hip-hop umbrella .. nicely written though

ryan kuo (ryan kuo), Sunday, 14 December 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE REPRESENT!

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 14 December 2003 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Can someone who can be bothered logging in to NYT please copy'n'paste the article here?

Andrew (enneff), Sunday, 14 December 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

the article's a bit embarrassingly americentric truth be told

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 14 December 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Britain's Great Black Hip-Hop Hope
By KELEFA SANNEH

LONDON

On a recent Saturday night, about a thousand young black Britons crowded into some tunnels near the London Bridge for a rowdy party that's known as "The Eskimo Dance." At first the D.J.'s played American hip-hop and Jamaican "bashment" — the local term for dancehall reggae — while the men drank mixed drinks (or, if they could afford it, champagne) and watched the women dance. But then came something else: the beats got murky and fidgety, and local M.C.'s crowded the stage, barking out fierce, mile-a-minute rhymes. People pushed forward, straining to see who had the microphone.

Dizzee Rascal, a brilliant and wildly original 19-year-old M.C. and producer, was everywhere and nowhere that night. His hits — panicky confections of spluttering electronics and superenunciated yelps — were played during the hip-hop and bashment sets. And M.C.'s borrowed his underground tracks — grim, sparse beats, with hardly any melody at all — for their live sets. Wiley, the veteran M.C. who helped organize the night, began by paying tribute to Dizzee, who was once his close friend, and people cheered at the mention of his name. But Dizzee, who grew up going to parties like the Eskimo Dance, had chosen not to attend.

It turned out to be a wise decision. Around 2:30 in the morning, a rhyme battle onstage spilled out into the audience. Soon, hundreds of clubgoers were stampeding toward the exits — and then, when another fight broke out near the back, stampeding away from the exits. Bottles were flying. People said they heard gunshots. Outside, as police officers and their dogs kept watch, fans headed home early (the party had been scheduled to last until 6), trading tall tales about who had done what.

Dizzee's been keeping his distance from the scene that spawned him but that is beset, he says, by just that kind of "dumbness." In July, two weeks before he released his astonishing debut album, "Boy in da Corner" (XL), he was stabbed five times. (He has hinted that the crime was motivated by jealousy or resentment, but it remains unsolved.) Dizzee recovered, and the album went on to be a success: it has sold more than 200,000 copies so far (enough to be certified gold in Britain), and in September he beat out Radiohead and Coldplay for the Mercury Prize, the country's most prestigious musical award.

Britain has long been full of hip-hop fans, but the country has produced surprisingly few hip-hop heroes of its own. While home-grown rap scenes thrive in France and Germany, Britain's has never really taken off, and the "Radio 1 Rap Show" on BBC plays almost nothing but Americans. Dizzee's manager, Nick Detnon, derides most British hip-hop as a watered-down version of the American stuff, and suggests that Britain's close relationship to America has inhibited innovation. "The only thing that's holding us back is speaking the same language as you," he said.

Maybe that's Dizzee's secret: he doesn't speak the same language as American rappers — or, perhaps, anyone else. Hip-hop music is usually built around rhythms of speech; that's one reason Atlanta hip-hop, for example, usually sounds so different from New York hip-hop. And so Dizzee created his own sound by exaggerating the eccentricities of his own voice: the typewriterly clatter of hard consonants, the flattened or distended vowels (in his rhymes, "right" rhymes with "bat," and the word "boy" might have two or three syllables), the gulped half-sentences and abrupt shifts in momentum. His eerie, stiff-legged beats are as peculiar as his rhymes, full of overlapping keyboard parts, unpredictable rhythmic clusters and, instead of bass lines, jagged shards of low-frequency noise. He may dress like an American rapper, but he loves American hip-hop too much to imitate it.

He has already been embraced by a small group of American hipsters and record geeks — listeners who have never heard of his East London neighborhood, Bow, are nevertheless entranced by his exotic slang and peculiar electronic compositions. But watch the music video for Dizzee's current single, "Jus' a Rascal," and you'll see the audience that means more to him: scowling young men in baseball hats and writhing women in well-ventilated outfits, all gesticulating in time to the beat on a boat floating down the Thames. (Visit www.xlrecordings.com/broadcast/ to watch the video online.)

To fans like these, Dizzee is the opposite of exotic: he's a local hero, a product of the rough-and-tumble U.K. garage scene, weaned on pirate radio stations, vinyl-only record stores and, of course, volatile nightclubs.

In person, Dizzee Rascal is every bit as charming and as mercurial as he is on CD. When he talks about his favorite American rappers, he could be any teenage music fan, gushing about a new Ludacris track or quoting a verse by the relative unknown Peedi Crakk. But his eyes never stop moving, as if he's taking everything in and storing it all away. His cellphone chimes mercilessly, so he's forever mumbling gruff greetings and gruffer goodbyes.

On a recent — and, inevitably, rainy — Monday afternoon, Dizzee could be found slumped in the front seat of a handler's car, an oversized baseball hat pulled low over his face. He was heading a few hours north from London to Birmingham, where he had a three-night gig opening up for Justin Timberlake. In Dizzee's CD player was a disc containing a rough mix of the music for his 30-minute set, and as the car inched forward in heavy M1 traffic, Dizzee was figuring out exactly which words would go where.

Dizzee Rascal was born Dylan Mills in 1984, an only child in some of Bow's dreariest primary schools and council flats. His parents were of mainly Nigerian descent, but he says he's often mistaken for a Jamaican or a Ghanaian, and because he prides himself on being hard to figure out, he can be playfully evasive on the question of ethnicity. "I'm Cockney," he said, half-smiling. "That's about as white as you can get, innit."

He grew up listening to the harshest music he could get his hands on, from Busta Rhymes to Sepultura. But his favorite homegrown music was jungle, a wicked-sounding electronic dance genre built around frenetic syncopated rhythms. Dizzee says that although he heard local hip-hop while he was growing up, it was the tongue-twisting jungle M.C.'s who most inspired him: "They were the only ones who really sounded English," he recalled. By the time he was 13, he was buying records and practicing rhymes, determined to establish himself as a jungle D.J. and M.C.

The British dance-music scene is notoriously restless, and by the late 1990's, the musical momentum had shifted from jungle to U.K. garage (also known as speed garage or 2-step), which had more melody and less clutter. At first, U.K. garage seemed like a sleek British version of R & B, and the scene even produced an international star: the bland crooner Craig David. But kids like Dizzee were attracted to another kind of garage: a self-consciously raw offshoot ruled by toneless bass lines and nervous, skeletal beats. This grimy new sound (variously known as "grime," "gutter garage," "sublow" and "Eski") inspired a new wave of British M.C.'s, including Dizzee, whose eccentric style won him a place in Wiley's well-respected posse, Roll Deep Crew.

In the last few years, the garage scene has produced a handful of breakthrough acts. So Solid Crew earned widespread (if fleeting) success by championing a glamorous version of grime, inspired by the flash and swagger of hip-hop. Ms. Dynamite, who began her career in 2000 with a classic underground garage single called "Booo!," turned to R & B for her debut album, "A Little Deeper," which won the 2002 Mercury Prize. One of her rivals was a white Birmingham native known as the Streets, whose excellent "Original Pirate Material" pays tribute to grime by going the other direction: the rhymes are flat and conversational, and the beats are sweetened with house-music keyboards.

But the garage scene has never produced an album like "Boy in da Corner," an impossibly rich collection of battle rhymes, nuanced narratives and radical beat-making. "I Luv U," the album's biggest hit, tells a sly, savage tale of deceitful women and single-minded men. Dizzee offers sneering sympathy to a cuckolded boyfriend ("It's a real shame you got hacked by the whores /It's a shame that kid probably ain't yours"), and he punctuates his disdain with one of his monstrous, grinding bass lines.

Some tracks on the album stitch together brash lyrics that Dizzee had been reciting for years, but others are slower and stranger. To make "Sittin' Here," the album's gunshot-riddled opening track, he says he composed the woozy beat, then took it home and let it play while he stared at the wall. The result was a remarkably subtle track about, well, staring at the wall:

I'm just sittin' here, I ain't saying much, I just think
And my eyes don't move left or right, they just blink
I think too deep and I think too long
Plus I think I'm getting weak, 'cause my thoughts are too strong

This sense of unease hangs over the whole CD, and hearing it now it's hard not to be reminded of what came next: the stabbing. Dizzee was on the garage-crazed holiday destination Ayia Napa, on Cyprus, when he says he was assaulted by a group of British "boys" he'd never met before. There have been plenty of rumors but few hard facts; The Guardian reported that the police questioned, then released a member of So Solid Crew, with whom Dizzee had been feuding earlier this year.

Recalling the incident today, he said, "I would love to have kept it to myself." But of course he couldn't; the stabbing became a huge tabloid story, and cheating death only heightened Dizzee's appeal and credibility.

By the time he returned to Britain, he had decided to bow out of the Roll Deep Crew, severing ties with his onetime mentor Wiley. Dizzee won't say exactly why, and neither has rapped about the split. All Dizzee will say is that when he was attacked, there was no one there to defend him. "It really, really showed me a lot," he said. "I'm in this on my own."

And so for now, he is taking a break from the U.K. garage scene, turning his attention to a new challenge across the Atlantic, the Jan. 20 American release of "Boy in da Corner." Dizzee already has at least one high-profile American fan: Mr. Timberlake, who stops him backstage in Birmingham. "I just want to congratulate you on all your success, man," he tells Dizzee, who stops and chats for a minute before sauntering off — he has half an hour to check in, wolf down some food, find his D.J. and get onstage in front of about 13,000 teen-pop fans, but he seems more amused than nervous.

Give Dizzee a microphone and he starts moving differently. His shoulders twitch and shift, and his head starts bobbing, carving out sharp little patterns in time to the beat. Mr. Timberlake's fans cheer (or, more accurately, screech) when Dizzee raps over Jay-Z and Missy Elliott tracks, but they applaud loudest for his own hit "Fix Up, Look Sharp," a riotous, off-kilter hip-hop track. And when Dizzee rhymes "Flushing MC.'s down the loo/ If you don't believe me bring your posse, bring your crew," he seems to be taking puckish pleasure in his un-American slang.

Other British grime M.C.'s are hoping to follow Dizzee's path. Wiley's debut album is due out this spring, and Tinchy Stryder, a promising teenager, is sometimes touted (prematurely) as Dizzee's successor. But while it's tempting to claim that Dizzee is blazing a new trail for black British music, it's also possible that he'll turn out to be an anomaly — a solitary virtuoso whose musical revolution starts and ends with his own records.

In America, Dizzee faces long odds: American listeners have never really embraced imported hip-hop, let alone whatever it is that Dizzee does. Then again, over the last year hip-hop radio stations and clubs have seemed more worldly than ever. Panjabi MC scored a bhangra hit (with help from Jay-Z). Lil Jon extended the life of his "Get Low" by releasing a merengue remix. And Jamaican patois seemed to be everywhere, thanks to the newly minted dancehall reggae stars Sean Paul and Elephant Man. If, say, Pharrell Williams of the Neptunes decided to throw his weight behind "Boy in da Corner," who knows what might happen? And if not, well, suffice it to say Dizzee Rascal hasn't got his hopes up too high.

After his set was done, Britain's great black hope could be found backstage in an undecorated dressing room, squinting into a camcorder, watching a tape of his performance. "It's heavy to see people enjoying your music," he said, as if he were still a bit suspicious of the whole concept. And then he retreated back into the only place he really seems comfortable — his own head — and watched himself on the tiny screen, two heads darting in time to the same beat."

cinniblount (James Blount), Sunday, 14 December 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Cheers blounto.

Andrew (enneff), Sunday, 14 December 2003 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Black Britons! They have those?

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Sunday, 14 December 2003 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Someone tell Tinchy Stryder he got up in the NYT!

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Sunday, 14 December 2003 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

for some reason it makes me very happy that dizzee likes peedi crakk

kdfkofk, Sunday, 14 December 2003 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Me too!

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Sunday, 14 December 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is its American focus "embarassing"? The purpose of the article is to bring an ultra-marginal musician from another country to the attention of U.S. readers. Thus, he must be placed into a familiar context. If you simply say "No, really, there's this tremendously exciting scene in England that you don't know anything about and this guy's a huge star in that scene, therefore you should care," nobody will (care). Dizzee Rascal is no more important to the U.S. music scene than any five random J-pop singers. If you want to create the illusion that he is, you're gonna have to gin up a place for him within the context of U.S. hip-hop.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 14 December 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

but the article is about how he's important to the UK music scene. the place within the US hip-hop context should be "Dizzee doesn't belong inside it".

ryan kuo (ryan kuo), Sunday, 14 December 2003 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I have an unsettling feeling ILX history is about to repeat itself.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 December 2003 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

hey at least the times was only 12 months late this time.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

>hey at least the times was only 12 months late this time.

The Times is a mass-market daily newspaper, not some journal of music geek arcana. I'd say they're several months early.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

they've gotten a lot better over the last couple years too. having kelefa certainly helps. i hardly ever cringe anymore reading the music stuff. i like those individual top ten things they have now too. it gives them a lot more room to fit stuff that normally wouldn't fit or have a place. they had douglas wolk writing about james brown a little while back and it was great to see.

scott seward, Monday, 15 December 2003 00:31 (twenty-two years ago)

blue jays represent!!

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

im with phil on this. this article is surpirsingly forward! i mean, theres been 0 press coverage of grime outside of dizzee. its gonna br another year before theres a mention of tinchy strider in the guardian/i-d/nme/times/standard/any british press! these people are (relatively) on the case! respect where respect's due! i though this article maintained a good balance of knowledge and explanation.....

to those that are thinking: wow they found out about dizzee 2 yrs too late, the british press havent advanced beyond beyond the sort of comment: "hey he won the mercury music prize! uncompromising! harsh electronics! bow, e3! dont play this at yr dinner parties! err....cant think of anything else to say!"....

ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 15 December 2003 00:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Any American daily picking up on Dizee Rascal before the domestic release is definately ahead of the curve. OTM Phil.

dylan (dylan), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)


There's not another daily paper anywhere that I'm aware of that has better music coverage.

scott m (mcd), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only now heard non-ILXors talking about Dizze Rascal, and that's only cuz they read about it in SPIN. NOBODY'S actually heard the guy and they all seem to be under the impression he's the thinking man's 50 Cent. Me, I've only heard the Jaxx song, which seems to fit Dan Perry's comment about him sounding like Busta Rhymes.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)

haha "thinking man's 50 cent"

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

all hail the new black yardstick

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 15 December 2003 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

well he was squired by the thinking man's Eminem (and I am no longer surprised that "british" and "thinking man's" are frequently believed synonymous by folks around here).

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

here=State College, PA. Not ILX.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

in other news, al sharpton = "the god fearing man's 50 cent"

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

do people honestly read daily papers for the music coverage?

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

also american press being ahead of the british curve shocker.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, i've written about dizzee fucking rascal so many times i never want to hear the goddamn record again.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:18 (twenty-two years ago)

the interesting thing will be whether the American listening audience will demands you all write about it again when they finally get to hear it.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't think of too many american cities where the daily's music coverage isn't FAR superior to the local alt-weakly

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

pre-raines this often included new york

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:36 (twenty-two years ago)

well he was squired by the thinking man's Eminem (and I am no longer surprised that "british" and "thinking man's" are frequently believed synonymous by folks around here). - thinking man's Eminem = wiley? simon reynolds? whatever daft bastard is in charge of the mercury prize? who are you talking about here?

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll take skinner for 300

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm really glad this is in the new york times!

geeta (geeta), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

you would be correct, mark p.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i just kinda wish reynolds had written it like he wrote the times streets piece although maybe not since you could really see him strain with 'ok, how to explain this to an american audience that maybe doesn't care/know nearly as much about it as i do' so that weirdly his piece was even more 'uk act as refracted thru american lense' than this one. i can imagine he might not've namedropped tinchy stryder for example.

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess it should be noted that i don't read ANY print publication (regularly) for its music coverage.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

what i do like about this piece is that it actually tries to acknowledge/investigate grime somewhat even if it also does the 'this is their hip-hop' (previously the article would've just followed the 'this is their hip-hop' tack)(see the 99% of american articles on the streets last year that never mentioned uk garage as if that record's context was irrelevant)(which it might be with other records but since orig.pirate.mat's context was largely what that record was about maaaybe it mattered there). i still think the 'this is their hip-hop' tack is legitimate, but only when it's used as a way to think about the music. usuallly it's been used as a way to not think about the music (i think i can understand some of stelfox et. al's ire now).

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

one reason dailies often are able to have better music coverage is cuz noone reads them for their music coverage

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The Dallas Observer (weekly) has superior music coverage to the Dallas Morning News'. The Observer's arts coverage in general is superior to the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram (FW has an alt-weekly, but it's complete crap).

That's not saying much, though.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

it's like when a new writer would take over quasar and kill off his family and make him a villian and he could get away with it because quasar isn't superman.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

They did that?!?!?!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 December 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

that's sorta what happened with green lantern, yes?

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 December 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

and sex and the city

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 December 2003 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

haha "hard"

M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:39 (twenty-two years ago)

haha "erectile dysfunction"

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Bob Dole here for the Times. Bob Dole likes Dizzee Rascal.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread sure has gotten weird.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

haha yeah, what the fuck are you TALKING about at this point fiddo?

M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

damn if i know.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you think Bob and Liddy's favorite position is?

ben welsh (benwelsh), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

the "dizzee rascal," a British position suddenly finding favour among U.S. tastemakers.

M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

In fact, Dizzee demonstrates the look the male should have at the top of the thread!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

caption that thing. STAT!

ben welsh (benwelsh), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Alls I know is, I love that jacket madly, and must know where I can get one.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Stab Dizzie 6 times

ben welsh (benwelsh), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

many men, many many many many men

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 December 2003 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

the "dizzee rascal," a British position suddenly finding favour among U.S. tastemakers.

they'll probably be doing it probably forever.

rgeary (rgeary), Monday, 15 December 2003 06:46 (twenty-two years ago)

good article though. it's a nice read and sent me back to the record again. great attention paid to how dizzee actually pronounces words, which i think is like 1/3 of his effect for me.

rgeary (rgeary), Monday, 15 December 2003 06:47 (twenty-two years ago)

the article sorta raises the question -- dizzee as an exemplar or a *creator* of grime, also w/r/t so solid crew. like it tends to locate "grime" as more of a fixed scene birthing things than a scene-in-becoming where dizzee and so solid both played roles in changing the whole game up.

the violence angle seemed played up a bit funny too.

but yeah, nonetheless a nice piece and its cool that dizzee's getting a big push.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 15 December 2003 06:52 (twenty-two years ago)

very good article, but this bit makes me wish that someone who isn't RWD or Deuce would publish an article about Nasty Crew:

But while it's tempting to claim that Dizzee is blazing a new trail for black British music, it's also possible that he'll turn out to be an anomaly — a solitary virtuoso whose musical revolution starts and ends with his own records.

Keith McD (Keith McD), Monday, 15 December 2003 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Good to see he (or his manager, they appear to be some hive mindset with exactly the same views and opinions) is still whining about "Oh no, British rap music is just following the Americans, we need to be original like what I am" whilst dressed like this:

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/14/arts/sann.583.jpg

Not as impressive as his HHC interview where he said that in one sentence, and then talked about how he'd like to work with American producers in the exact next sentence, but still pretty impressive.

And he wonders why he can only get positive write-ups by rock and indie critics?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 December 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

er have you read anything anywhere recently?

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 December 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes. Thanks for asking.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Good to hear. Did you enjoy those particular books/articles?

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Eh, didn't much enjoy "Wuthering Heights" to be honest, but "Sense and Sensibility" improved on my second reading. Yourself?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I was having a rest before going out on Saturday and I picked up the Roy Keane book to give myself a quick smirk. It was at the part where he was bemoaning their dependence on big players, "One week we'd say go on Ruud, you do it for us. The next it would be Ole's turn. Go on Ole, get us a winner".

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

(Anyway, side note: yes, my post reflects my immense bias against Rascal and, to be frank, all musical genres that can vaguely be described as "garage" since 1998. But its fucking sickening for him to trot out the exact same lines that broadsheet British music critics do about British hip-hop, when they're completely innacurate. Where are these great American soundalikes in British rap (yes, OK, ignoring Mark B and Blade). Isn't it Vinyl Dialect that does that "They say I rap with a Yankee's tongue/Cuz I don't talk like I'm from Lahn-dahn" line? Same principle, is it not? Nobody will ever give British rap music a chance because its a lot more comforting for music writers to believe the UK inner-cities are exactly the same as US inner cities, and thus praise acts who presented a distorted, Americanized version of British music and culture.

And, really, you stepped out around my way wearing a jacket like that and you'd get lamped)

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Did you ever see the advert for his DVD? "Cowhads. Cowhads sums dem up. And I mean dat".

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(Roy Keane, not Dizzee Rascal, obviously. Although DR would gain my respect if he released a single called "You can stick it up your bollocks".)

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 15 December 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

That article's a major improvement on previous US "mainstream" articles I've seen about UK dance!!!! It wasn't so long ago I was reading some interview with Oxide & Neutrino, where the interview noted they kept using the word "hardcore", and then went into an amusingly long detour about the origins of the word in jazz, and how he finds it curious that these two use it all the time because, well they're not really jazzy, are they?!?!?!

I reckon Oxide & Neutrino would have found it amusing as well, as they were actually talking about the "hardcore" ravey underground pirate radio scene in the UK!!!!

Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Monday, 15 December 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

hardcore used in jazz or "jazz"?

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 15 December 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i have to say i've probably written about dizzee as much as the next man and that piece is surprisingly accurate and upfront for someone who doesnt live in the UK. even if some of it is like wading through treakle ("His eerie, stiff-legged beats are as peculiar as his rhymes...")

i'm gonna text Tinchy about this... he'll love the mention.

martin (martin), Monday, 15 December 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

this made me very happy (and I like K.S. much better now that he's not writing snarkyish concert reviews)

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 15 December 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"very good article, but this bit makes me wish that someone who isn't RWD or Deuce would publish an article about Nasty Crew"

Ha ha only the magazines that ILX doesn't like (maybe with good reason - I don't read them) do write-ups on anyone other than Dizzee. Vice did Nasty Crew, Fader did The Ends.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 15 December 2003 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

He has already been embraced by a small group of American hipsters and record geeks

I read this as "embarrassed."

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Both apply.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 December 2003 01:35 (twenty-two years ago)

four months pass...
blah blah blah hataz, im sure not a one of yall has ever MADE music b4 and if you did your disappointed you never got in tha times, in a scene or any recognition whatsoever so...let the man rap

dukSoS, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

There's Kelefa back in his Harvard days (2nd from right):
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1999/04.29/photos/transition.250x168.jpg

sexyDancer, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

While home-grown rap scenes thrive in France and Germany, Britain's has never really taken off

i was surprised nobody really called this out

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve: one gets kind of sick of doing that, eventually.

Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone UK hip hop charted well (or at all?) in the charts? I'm assuming someone like Roots Manuva may've down OK?

Mil, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Ugghh. anyone = any, down = done.

Mil, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Monie LOve!

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Neneh Cherry!

sexyDancer, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

mc ricky d, motherfuckers!!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

dukSoS, what does yr comment have to do with anything posted above... much less anything else at all? i don't see anyone griping that dizzee got in the NYT. most of us are dizzee fans. did you read the above posts? *could* you read the above posts?

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

you all forgot Betty Boo AND Cookie Crew you lamorz, and Darkman, tut...

the point was more do French and German hip hop acts chart highly in their own countries much? and if so how do their sales compare sales of British hip hop in the UK?


i have made music. i have been in the New York Times. recognise.

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

tho i am also more than happy to 'let the man rap'

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I was in "The City" section for doing a piroette off a man's hamburger stand ... check disc 2 of NNCKBOBW. How ya like me knowe???

sexyDancerrr, Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

hahahaha say that part about Roots Manuva charting well in the US. that was purdy funny.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

confused would we?

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

do French and German hip hop acts chart highly in their own countries much?

I think they do, as well in the Netherlands. (maybe not "much" but occasionally, which is more often than in the UK, no?)

and if so how do their sales compare sales of British hip hop in the UK?

In absolute numbers, I haven't a clue. Did high profile British hip-hoppers like Ty and Roots Manuva have gold albums? I doubt it.

JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

French hip hop acts DEFINITELY chart and frequently. Sales are more relative though.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)


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