Like Something on Kompakt, Only Bad

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Take your hypa-minimal dance music -- microhouse et. al. -- where is the bad stuff? This is something I've been thinking about lately, after reading the millionth thread praising labels like kompakt, bpitch, and italic to the skies. Who is putting out crap music in a similar vein?

You take something like indie rock -- it wouldn't be hard to find someone who could offer an intersting argument about why Built to Spill is fantastic and Grandaddy is terrible. But to someone not familar with indie rock, I'm sure these bands sound virtually identical. Do people split hairs and offer extreme value judgements in the same way with minimal club music? Or is the mechanism for absorbing/appreciating this music just work completely differently?

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Come back in a year or so prob

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

analyzing minimal dance music from an indie perspective = dud

disco sparxxx (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Minimal dance=indie.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

no way...

disco stu (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

analyzing minimal dance music from an indie perspective = dud

-- disco sparxxx ), December 24th, 2003.

See, that was part of my question. How are the perspectives different?

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

set and setting, the dj factor

have you ever read generation ectasy, mark?

disco sparxxx (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

there is so much bullshit dance music out there it boggles the mind.

there's just as much bullshit indie, of course. or hip-hop. or metal. or or or...

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

but stu is right, the major difference is the "set and setting" (haha quite literally, really.)

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Read it? I lived it, dude.

Actually, no, I didn't live it in the least, but yes, I did read it. And I'm not sure it applies to how music on labels like Kompakt are being received in the US at present. We're not talking about London pirate radio, this is music that OtherMusic and Aquarius carry, various free weeklies write about, that ends up on otherwise rock-dominant top 10 lists.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe the bullshit dance just isn't worth a mention, then? Unlike the bullshit hip-hop or what have you.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

meaning: i can't tell you the last time i heard people take a granddaddy song and a built to spill song and blended the two together to make something i'd actually listen to, but dj's take two minimal techno/house tracks that i'd never want to listen to for their full seven minutes alone and mix them together to create something new and listenable (and danceable!) all the time.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

the difference with a lot of the stuff on kompakt and stuff on other microhouse labels is that kompakt seems quite often to be presenting it's material (at least on lp/cd) as individual tracks to stand up to scrutiny in isolation.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

whereas none of the perlon or force tracks 12s i've heard (pre-2002, say) were as interesting to me in isolation as hearing them on superlongevity or hypercity.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah that makes sense -- I assume that the material is created to be presented as such, not just that the presentation is different. You think Kompakt artists are making dance music in more of a pop mode (as far as development within a track, etc.)?

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

poker flat, telegraph, dessous, italic, recent force inc., recent perlon, trapez, plug research

all so boring i want to pull my hair out.

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

We're not talking about London pirate radio, this is music that OtherMusic and Aquarius carry, various free weeklies write about, that ends up on otherwise rock-dominant top 10 lists.

well it's about fuckin time they noticed

generation ecstasy is not just about london pirate radio...

disco stu (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

trapez is brilliant vahid!!!!

disco stu (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

fwiw, i think the pop comparison is far more valid than the indie comparison

disco stu (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

vahid sadly otm. reduced horizons baby...

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

actually maybe he's not, but i find it almost exhausting to keep up with anymore, a. because there's so damn much of the stuff that it's just impossible to have the time to sort through and b. because i have so much of it already i've reached that point where it feels like "the genre" isn't moving fast enough for you anymore, and c. as a genre "microhouse" is a pretty well useless tag at this point anyway.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Stu I know GE is about more than that, but that's a pre-internet book, & I don't think the way music is heard now is the same as it was then. You don't need to be plugged into a scene, going out, hearing DJs, etc. to hear these tracks. In the US, anyway, the kind of music I'm thinking of is not scene dependant at all (every jerkwater town has an electroclash/80s/new wave night, but only in bigger cities are they dancing to luomo.)

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post: b. is the operative point.

i go out to see my friends spin minimal house and it's fine but EVERY track sounds exactly the same and i could've heard it all several years ago anyway. poker flat and trapez are particularly guilty in this regard.

when i listen to taka taka i tend to sit bolt upright in my chair when the claro intellecto and maurice fulton tracks come on.

on the other hand, labels keeping it real: klang electronic, sender, shitkatapult, deepchord, kompakt...

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

gah, the new-ish stuff on perlon has been great, too.

disco hacke (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah a lot of the time i wonder how much of taka taka's godhead status comes down to simply incorporating some basic deep-house manuevers into the mix.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

go out to see my friends spin minimal house and it's fine but EVERY track sounds exactly the same

well that's a problem with the dj set then!

disco meh (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

the stuff that is moving quickly, labels like circus company and areal and artists like cabanne and dimbiman and errorsmith and recent perlon (for you, stu), is just getting so convoluted to the point where i'm sorry, it's just not danceable anymore.

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't know if there's anything particularly wrong with a certain scene/sound just reaching that saturation point...it happens to all dance sub-genres, doesnt it? and then the populist core whithers away/the punters are scared or bored away and all that remains are the hardcore heads who can tell the "difference" between two minimal-tech tracks or two neurofunk tracks.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

it's probably the reason why mayer and kompakt are getting so much ink and, say, superlongevity 3 isn't.

fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

and mark, the reason i bring up ge is because it explains (maybe implicitly) why dance music is different, that's all. availability may have something to do with it, but music does not exist in a vaccuum.

disco xmas (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

agreed that it's a matter of taste vahid...

disco stu (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

actually ark/cabanne/dimbiman remind me of dj pulse or jmj & richie. which is not bad!! that stuff is beautiful, but it's built pretty strictly for the bachelor pad (in a lot of senses, and i'm too lazy to sketch them out).

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

it is good to see somebody else is finally mentioning Deepchord on this list.

Microhouse has been sounding sterile for awhile now. Shuffletech is fine and dandy I guess but like somebody else said, it reeks of IT pro late 20-something dinner parties in a loft in san fran. I think it is time for something that sounds a bit more rough and ready. Computer synthesis and pristine mastering are making it all sound a bit too clean.

Teen Challenge Drug Addict Choir (mjt), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Who is putting out crap music in a similar vein?

Fleisskoma. What an awful, awful label.

Xii (Xii), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

it reeks of IT pro late 20-something dinner parties in a loft in san fran

that would be me, then, except i don't throw dinner parties and i don't live in san fran. i think the best microhouse does not lose its funkiness (you can dance to it!) and a lot of the producers realize that funky > cerebral, but the best tracks are some combination of the two.

deepchord is a detroit label isn't it?

disco professional (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

deepchord is a red herring, sort of. it'd be fairer to compare them to basic channel / chain reaction and that's not really the style we're talking about anyway. but yeah, detroit label though not really an overt "detroit" sound.

i wasn't try to say that funky > cerebral (cause it's not), just that if there isn't a loud kickdrum or at least a syncopated snare/hihat i just tune out (i'm lame like that).

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

and if you can use a loud kickdrum and a simple snare/hihat combo and STILL be mindbogglingly cerebral - like carl craig or claude young used to before they went downhill, or like superpitcher does on "fieber" - then you're my god.

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

to go back to the original question - i don't really understand those argument as to why grandaddy is bad. could you be more specific about the form those arguments take? (not being snarky, i'm just seriously out of the loop w.r.t. indie)

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i've heard deepchord so the basic channel ref is obvious. i just couldn't remember if the label was based in the d. i was definitely saying that funky > cerebral. :-)

disco professional (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

It's like this story my friend told me once of how he was listening to some college radio station and they played this song that went on for half an hour which was basically just the sound of a kick drum repeating over and over and over. He told me how he went through periods of thinking it was the greatest thing ever and periods of hating it intensely and almost turning it off. I think micro-house is kind of the same way. Your ability to enjoy it has a lot to do with your state of mind, how loud it is, where you are, and what's circulating in your bloodstream. However, if it catches you at the right moment, it can seem mind-numbingly great.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

but yeah duly noted on your second comment, vahid

xpost

disco professional (disco stu), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

to the person who said that the 'microhouse' genre (jess OTM with the useless label at this point comment) isn't "rough and ready enough" or "reeks of IT 20-something dinner parties in san fran" - you obviously have not heard artists like t.raumschmiere!

also, i'll stick up for recent trapez releases - the LTD series has been great lately! i'm thinking specifically of the the sarah goldfarb record and bern's 'lille' (which is total hypnogroove goodness)

jason m (jason m), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha as always I'll stick up for Pokerflat - Martini Bros and Jeff Bennett, people!

I know what Jess means when he says the genre doesn't move fast enough, but how much of this is due to our own hypervigilance? Stumbling across this stuff for the first time in early 2001, it seemed like all of this hyperactive development had been occurring under my very nose; now that my nose is attuned, I can see that it's not nearly as hyperactive as I thought it was, but nor has it ever been. Certainly though at this stage I think Mayer/Kompakt and artists with similar song-minded objectives are the only ones with any clear idea of what to do next. More than anything else Taka Taka sounds like a reassertive last gasp for microhouse as we knew it.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 24 December 2003 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

jess, i think mayer/kompakt got more ink than superlongevity 3 in large part because mayer/voigt just visited the US for basically the first time, and that injection of "personality" was a good excuse for the alt weeklies et al (et alt?) to finally do something about him/them.

as for the genre not moving fast enough, i can't really see that. i do agree that "microhouse" as a tag is increasingly useless, though i don't entirely refrain from using it myself. but look at the varying directions people continue to move, all at once, from dimbiman's dry springiness and villalobos' increasingly convoluted polyrhythmics and luciano's continuing latin fix -- all on the one hand -- to areal's fat, overdriven massiveness to sascha funke's glossy 80s sheen, to the weird blocky nearly unfunky quality of the "k cabal" (ark/krikor/cabanne/circus company/ et al), etc., and i don't see anything but bright and restless energy. true, the genre (in a sort of macro sense) may be losing a certain amount of cohesion, but that's a good thing in my book - good for the records, and good for the DJ sets. and leaves lots of room for producers to come back and fill in the gaps during dry spells.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Thursday, 25 December 2003 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)


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