persian surgery dervishes sounds really intense and ecstatic to me, for example, like let's all have a rave up with terry
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 03:21 (seven years ago) link
this is THE Seefeel ambient jam, afaic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm4rtr03ZV8
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 03:22 (seven years ago) link
but i don't know, just doesn't seem correct.
just doesn't seem right or wholesome to have them on an ambient list, i should say, unless you widen the tent to encompass more 'ambient is a feeling' stuff in jazz/classical/world etc
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 03:28 (seven years ago) link
or like, eagles greatest hits
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 03:29 (seven years ago) link
yeah. it makes sense as a process but feels really cynical as a category of music to me.
― savvinesslessness (map), Tuesday, 27 September 2016 03:31 (seven years ago) link
like a list of 300 'spiritual' albums would have been so much better + more coherent
So an interesting closing of the loop... Back in 2000 I was in college and just getting into ambient music vie extreme insomnia. hyperreal.org (which is still up - although it says "Copyright 1992-2004 Hyperreal" at the bottom of the page) was an electronic music/rave culture/drugs (via the connected Erowid) site and had DJ sets to download as 'instructional material'. I downloaded an ambient one in Real Audio (yep) format by a guy called Tim Fothergill and listened to it a lot - an awful lot. As I learned more about ambient music I started to recognise a lot of the tunes as Aphex Twin, Eno etc., but eventually I got a big CD and MP3 collection and forgot about this crappy Real Audio file.
Fast forward to two years ago and I found it by accident - I tracked Tim down on Twitter, and he posted up a much higher quality version on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/tim-fothergill/evolution
Some of the track ids of this 20 year old mix were lost to the mists of time, but we got nearly all of them (including using Shazam for a few). I still think it's a nice intro for a beginner, and personally for me it's very evocative of an era:
00:00 Brian Eno - Neroli01:00 u-ziq - ?03:40 Aphex Twin - 1-10 SAWII05:00 Speedy J - Grogono07:30 Aphex Twin - 1-5 SAWII09:30 Slowdive - Albatross10:50 Speedy J - Lanzarote13:00 Aphex Twin - 1-3 SAWII15:00 Neutron 9000 - She Trails Flowers17:50 Dreamfish - Underwater(20:00 The Orb - Sticky End)(21:35 FSOL - Bird Wings)(22:50 Woob - Creek)25:00 Aphex Twin - 2-4 SAWII27:00 Aphex Twin - 2-9 SAWII28:30 Brian Eno - Tal Coat32:30 The Orb - Valley35:00 Brian Eno - Unfamiliar Wind (Leek Hills)36:00 Aphex Twin - 2-6 SAWII38:30 Woob - Depart39:30 Dead Can Dance - Piece For Solo Flute41:30 Woob - On Earth44:00 Slowdive - Avalyn II46:00 Aphex Twin - 1-12 SAWII47:30 Cabaret Voltaire - Project 80(49:00 FFWD - What Time Is Clock)51:20 Woob - Strange Air55.00 Wagon Christ - Aerhaart, From Within57:00 ?59:00 Wagon Christ - Glass World61:00 Psychonavigation - Angel Tech63:30 Slowdive - Losing Today65:45 ?67:00 Cabaret Voltaire - Exterminating Angel (Intro)69:00 Woob - Odonna71:30 The Orb - Back Side Of The Moon73:00 FFWD - Meteor Storm75:30 The Young Gods - Moon Revolutions77:00 Slowdive - Golden Hair78:00 ?80:00 Woob - Emperor82:00 Aphex Twin - 1-10 SAWII84:00 Woob - Odonna86:00 FFWD - Hempire88:30 Harold Budd & Brian Eno - First Light91:00 Aphex Twin - 2-12 SAWII91:30 Brian Eno - An Ending (Ascent)
If anybody has an idea what the remaining ones are then let me know!
― the_ecuador_three, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 14:33 (seven years ago) link
I also used to read the reviews at Ambience for the Masses and listen to the associated 24/7 Sleepbot Environmental Broadcast stream which unbelievably seem to be going strong almost two decades later as well.
As for the Pitchfork list, I'm sure they'll have a top 50 New Age albums list next with all your missing favourites.
― the_ecuador_three, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 14:46 (seven years ago) link
i like a lot of what's on here but it's undeniably on-trend wrt new age. like, erik satie should really be on a list that's actually interested in uncovering what ambient is, just as much as eno should be. i love laurie spiegel but i don't think she's ambient at all. eliane radigue 'fits' better i think. (don't mean to weigh token women artists here.) psycho-acoustic sound art type stuff feels connected to the ambient concept imo. maryanne amacher. robert ashley was a good call. in general there seems to be a fear of experimental classical / institutional sound art that isn't outsider-y enough. i love minimalism but solely focusing on it betrays a certain predictable pov.
― savvinesslessness (map), Monday, September 26, 2016 1:50 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah if they're gonna go broad with the definition there's quite a few 'non outsidery' notated compositions that'd fit right in. Rothko Chapel, Les Heures Persanes, Egdon Heath, Musica Callada, A Haunted Landscape...
― I wish you could see my home. It's... it's so... exciting (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 27 September 2016 15:29 (seven years ago) link
So, cos I had nothing better to do, here's my corny top 50 ambient albums list to complement the "cool" one Pitcfork did:
2350 Broadway - 2350 Broadway 4310 - SnorkelhouseAir Liquide - Nephology: The New ReligionAlio Die - Deconsecrated and PureAlquimia - Coatlique: Goddess of the EarthAutumn of Communion - Autumn of CommunionBaked Beans - Baked BeansBiosphere - PatashnikConstance Demby - Novus Magnificat: Through the StargateConstance Demby - Sacred Space MusicCosmic Baby - Stunde NullDatacide - FlowerheadDeep Space Network - Big RoomsDots - DotsDreamfish - DreamfishElodie Lauten - Inscapes from ExileExquisite Corpse - Inner LightFrance Jobin - The Illusion of InfinitesimalFreida Abtan - The Hands of the Dancer / The Temple of the Dreamer Gas - KönigsforstGlobal Communication - 76:14Higher Intelligence Agency & Biosphere - Polar SequencesThe Irresistible Force - Global ChillageIshq - And AwakeJochem Paap - Vrs-Mbnt-Pcs 9598 IKaitlyn Aurelia Smith - TidesKhan & Walker - Empire State BuildingThe McLean Mix - Rainforest Images Meg Bowles - Blue CosmosMeg Bowles - The Shimmering LandMinilogue - BlommaMove D & Namlook - Raumland trilogyMusic to Films - Music to FilmsNatasha Barrett - Trade WindsOliver Lieb - ConstellationOliver Lieb - Inside VoicesOrganic Cloud - Organic CloudPsychick Warriors ov Gaia - Ov Biospheres and Sacred GroovesRaica - Lucent GlancesRobert Rich - SomniumShades of Orion - Shades Of Orion 2Sheila Chandra - ABoneCroneDroneSolar Quest - OrgshipSusumu Yokota - SakuraTangerine Dream - ZeitVangelis - Soil FestivitiesVladislave Delay - AnimaWoob - Woob 1194Zalys - SublimeZenith - Zenith
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 17:44 (seven years ago) link
Oh man soil festivities What a strange recording
― I wish you could see my home. It's... it's so... exciting (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 27 September 2016 17:47 (seven years ago) link
There's a lot of FAX in it, but IMO it's pretty inexcusable for any top 50 ambient list to completely ignore the most important ambient label (and the most prolific ambient producer) of the last 25 years, so I tried to balance that a bit.
(xpost)
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 17:47 (seven years ago) link
IMO Soil Festivities is Vangelis' best attempt to do "proper" ambient. Albums like Beauborg or Invisible Connection are a bit too on-the-nose avant-garde for my tastes, and stuff like The City is a bit too cheesy, but on SF he gets it right.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 17:51 (seven years ago) link
fun list, Tuomas. Zeit would go on my list as well, epic gloomy space ambient.
i must check out that Minilogue album
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:17 (seven years ago) link
Anima too but that's another borderline "waht is ambient" case. it's a little too lively and unstable (?) for proper zoning out. Entain is the most "ambient" of his albums, i think. just imo/ime.
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:22 (seven years ago) link
i was too young for the late80s/early90s period when "ambient" also referred to ambient house/techno
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:24 (seven years ago) link
zeit is so heavy like dark ambient ground zero kinda
― savvinesslessness (map), Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:25 (seven years ago) link
If it has beats at all, it shouldn't be considered as an ambient album, imo. Here's an ambient mix I did this weekend with my friend. There are no beats.
https://www.mixcloud.com/biznotic/ambient-excursions-to-44/
― brotherlovesdub, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:39 (seven years ago) link
rong
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:41 (seven years ago) link
or right, i don't know lol
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:42 (seven years ago) link
some of the things on the pfork list are like "if it doesn't have beats at all, it can be considered an ambient album"
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:43 (seven years ago) link
I never really got why the aphex twin collected ambient work- sounding stuff like fsol is considered ambient, it's p banging and also distracting with the off-kilter beats
― flopson, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:51 (seven years ago) link
I wasn't there at the time but I think "ambient" mostly was being used as a prefix to -house or -techno.
Which makes a lot more sense given most of that stuff is too soft and slow to dance to (at a time when house and techno were almost exclusively conceived of as club or dancing oriented), but predates and doesn't fit in with the "intelligent" frame that started to sweep through circa 1993.
Selected Ambient Works Vol II is "proper" ambient tho.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 23:59 (seven years ago) link
right, it was more shorthand... like calling hardcore techno "hardcore"
― brimstead, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 00:00 (seven years ago) link
I think that large swathes of Adventures Beyond The Ultraworld (esp. the last three tracks on disc one and "A Huge Ever Growing Pulsating Brain...") do in fact meet a narrower definition, but I can appreciate not wanting to include an album that also features "Little Fluffy Clouds" and "Perpetual Dawn" etc.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 00:02 (seven years ago) link
makes sense, thx tim. and yes of course vol ii is the good shit ~_~
― flopson, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 00:04 (seven years ago) link
that's a good example of why words are so annoying, you can't just make a list of humming ambient drone without someone being like WHY DOESNT BRITISH TECHNO THAT U CANT DANCE TO FROM 2002 IN THERE
― flopson, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 00:16 (seven years ago) link
qn: do u pronounce it << auhm-bient >> or whatever?
― flopson, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 00:17 (seven years ago) link
the 'b' is silent
― ( ^_^) (Lamp), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 00:22 (seven years ago) link
<i>IMO Soil Festivities is Vangelis' best attempt to do "proper" ambient.</i>
not an official release, but what you want to hear is his soundtrack to "microneurosurgery with videotapes" also called the Tegos tapes. most of the online recordings edit out the narration but it still leaves you with about twelve hours of ambient vangelis. it's as fantastic as you might hope that would be.
here's a collection of them on soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/kitlightning/sets/tegosauron
try case 4, for example
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 01:22 (seven years ago) link
I don't even follow my own proclamation most of the time. Plastikman's Consumed album is full of beats but functionally, it works like an ambient album to me.
― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 02:11 (seven years ago) link
If ambient music is defined as something you can chill to, nothing precludes it from having beats. There's plenty of albums by proper, recognized ambient artists that have unobtrusive, chilled down beats.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 06:00 (seven years ago) link
Obviously there are types of ambient house and ambient techno, where the latter genre is more important, and which have fairly banging 4/4 beats. That's one of the reasons I don't consider the From Within albums or Selected Ambient Works I to be proper ambient. But there are also distinguished types of ambient beats. There are even some tunes I'd consider to be ambient where percussion is the main element.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 07:18 (seven years ago) link
I think it should be beatless. But then: Gas.
― Sunn O))) Brother Where Art Thou? (Chinaski), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 07:20 (seven years ago) link
If beatlesness was an absolute requirement, a lot of acclaimed ambient albums would have to be disqualified: Microgravity, Patashnik, Organic Cloud, all albums by Air, Silence, Woob, Gas & The Irresistible Force, most Atom Heart, etc.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 07:42 (seven years ago) link
I'm fine with that - it'd make it 'neater' as a genre descriptor. As it is, it's kinda messy and vague. (It doesn't keep me awake at night. But still.)
― Sunn O))) Brother Where Art Thou? (Chinaski), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 11:42 (seven years ago) link
Drawing clear genre boundaries is impossible anywhere.
What's more interesting in discussing these lists (or at least, treating them as some sort of 'critical consensus') are the blind spots and shifts in focus - new age used to be one of those, it's now firmly back in the canon. 90's ambient (incl -house and -techno) is receding. But large swathes of the ambient landscape (ha!) still lay undiscovered - lots of soundtrack work (film and increasingly, video game), dark ambient (Lustmord, Cold Meat Industry, Thomas Köner etc), psybient (Shpongle, Ott, Ultimae Recs etc).
― Siegbran, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 11:59 (seven years ago) link
Even within this debate re beats or no beats, some of those 0PN records on their list seem pretty far removed from ambient.
― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 13:21 (seven years ago) link
Rifts made sense. Replica made no sense.
― I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 14:14 (seven years ago) link
yeah, the absence of ambient artists in this list from labels like Projekt/Hic Sunt Leones/Cold Meat Industry makes sense, as goth + world music is still terminally uncool. It's sad though, artists like Robert Rich and Alio Die have been putting out amazing work, often collaborating to great effect, for 20-30 years now. I'm surprised there's nothing by any Em:t artists... obviously Woob's 1194 but also magical releases like Lucid Dreams 0096:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuQj1txL2Bs
Scanner doesn't seem to get any love these days either.
I think we can all agree that one defining characteristic of ambient is Beatleslessness.
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 16:39 (seven years ago) link
the easily cornball intersection of world music + new age/ambient is highly highly beloved of me
― I wish you could see my home. It's... it's so... exciting (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 16:42 (seven years ago) link
The Em:t albums seem to have sort of suffered the same fate as FAX: they're out of print and not so easy to acquire. I kinda feel lists like this are compiled by people who weren't listening to this stuff in the '90s, and these days the newcomers don't have an easy access to it, so it's dropped off the radar. Which is sad, because their catalogue include some of the best electronic music of all time.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 18:14 (seven years ago) link
here have a mix..
https://www.mixcloud.com/crystalsprings/evening-fog-mix/
― brimstead, Thursday, 29 September 2016 21:06 (seven years ago) link
dude made his own list:
http://www.self-titledmag.com/2016/09/30/100-best-ambient-albums/
― scott seward, Friday, 30 September 2016 18:25 (seven years ago) link
dude's list runs pretty close to my tastes but I don't know if that makes the list very useful for me wrt new discoveries.
― Siegbran, Friday, 30 September 2016 19:05 (seven years ago) link
nice list, weird that it's framed as a rebuttal when it deliberately excludes albums from the p4k list.. it's really just "another hundred great ambient albums" and obviously that's a totally good thing to post but the disconnect is odd, i'll go ahead and blame clickbait culture (sorry)
― brimstead, Friday, 30 September 2016 19:20 (seven years ago) link
also because his list features plenty of artists from the pitchfork list. kinda getting into narcissism of small differences territory.
― a basset hound (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 30 September 2016 19:34 (seven years ago) link
good for dude
― savvinesslessness (map), Friday, 30 September 2016 20:22 (seven years ago) link
Dude also made a pretty remarkable ambient album of his own (Daydreaming, 2007)
― doug watson, Friday, 30 September 2016 23:57 (seven years ago) link
duane pitre - organized pitches occurring in time
― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Saturday, 1 October 2016 00:20 (seven years ago) link