US & UK: Cases of Speaking Past Each Other

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Reading the Oasis thread, and found the whole difference in ideas about "indie" to be interesting. (record label & politics, vs. sound/image).

Then started thinking about "pop music" in the UK (could include, say, Boo Radleys, or Daft Punk), vs US (almost always either Britney/Trousersnake pop, or hip hop/r n b).

There are also assumptions about pop heritage that are interesting. An American I know, who knows quite a bit about certain kinds of music, had never heard of the Kinks. Could this happen to a 30 year old Brit?

etc...

― paulhw (paulhw), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Could a 30 yr old Brit not know, say, ZZTop (not that they're necessarily comparable to Kinks)?

― The Luge (Horace Mann), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone not Canadian heard of Kim Mitchell?

― The Luge (Horace Mann), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Another thing I've noticed: Brits seem to know what is/has been in the charts. Maybe cos there's more of a chance of interesting or maverisk stuff getting in there. Or maybe just cos they're all anorak wearing trainspotters who review the charts with a cup of filmy tea.

― paulhw (paulhw), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

i was being a bit flippant with the Creation = indie thing (although i genuinely was not aware of the Sony influence until '96). Indie was a useful word once, up til around ten years ago. Paul otm about the Brits and charts (esp. the latter)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is the UK more obsessed with pop charts than the US?

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I do remember being amused, when I studied in England five years ago, that it seemed like UK "indie" was roughly equiv. to US "alternative" (at least what both had become by the late 90s: male guitar bands) -- and that the word "alternative" in the UK was more like "indie" here.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

(At least as defined by the Lancaster University Alternative Music Society, which to the best of my knowledge, only existed to hire coaches to go to gigs in Manchester.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Ooh, wasn't Kim Mitchell on the last episode of Kids in the Hall?

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I've lived in the States for 10 years now and one thing that struck me (mostly because it's my "thing") was the lack of knowledge about classic soul music amongst whites kids here. In England, everyone knows Motown, Stax, Philly Soul, Disco - it's everywhere, you grow up with it.

Say "Summer Breeze" to a Brit and they'll say The Isley Brothers, say it to a Yank and they'll say Seals & Croft. So sad.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i saw kim mitchell on the kenny everett video show. and i'm from connecticut! how many canadians know who jon butcher, frank marino, and pat travers are?

wait, i think jon butcher might have actually been from alaska. well, same thing.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

The various dance/techno subgenres are approached from vastly different perspectives as well.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 23 January 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha, I'm an American and I only know who John Butcher the British improv saxophonist is.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

John Butcher Axis? He's the poor man's Tony MacApline.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, the Jon Butcher Axis also opened for Def Leppard on the Pyromania tour. Along with Krokus. I should have posted that on the music trivia thread, but I forgot they existed until scott mentioned them.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

most people in the states are pretty clueless when it comes to music. they know what they listened to in high school and college and then they just get dimmer and dimmer as they get older. in england it's different. how many people are there in england again? and out of that number how many make music? like, half? they would almost have to know more about what's going on. And "What's Going On". ( i made all this up. but it sounds right)

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i need a copy of that live version of pat travers band doing "boom boom(out go the lights). i love that thing.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

And isn't Tony MacAlpine, like, the poor man's Yngwie/Steve Vai?

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

An American I know, who knows quite a bit about certain kinds of music, had never heard of the Kinks.

Interestingly, I once knew an American Belle & Sebastian completist (of college age) who said he'd never heard a Kinks song. I was very surprised at the time, but yeah, I can see the Kinks not meaning much to American kids whose idea of the '60s amounts to little more than the Beatles and boomer hippie shit they've been clobbered over the head with.

― aleksandr supertramp (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

It would be better if Pat Travers had done a version of "Boom Boom (Let's go Back to my Room)".

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

has there already been a Triumph-vs-April Wine thread? don't get scared. i'm not gonna start one.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Saga!

That Amazon customer reviews page for the Popoff book is funny where the one guy says Popoff doesn't know talent because he gave Nirvana a 10 and Triumph a 1.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

and yet, the kinks in the 80's were pretty big here. they had big stadium tours that were very popular. i saw them in 85 in providence rhode island and it was packed.

can i tell my tommy shaw story one more time? Okay, i will. Tommy Shaw was opening for the kinks and he says: "This one's called Too Much Time On My Hands!" and someone yells from the front for everyone to here: "Your mother had too much time on her hands!!!" i almost died i tellya.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i wore out my copy of that double live early 80's kinks album when i was in the 8th grade. One For The Road? or something like that. Then i would look for the older stuff. then i just started listening to the jam.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

>>Anyone not Canadian heard of Kim Mitchell? <<

I do! I even used to have a copy of his album with "Go For A Soda" (a small AOR hit in Detroit, which is north of Windsor) on it, and I have a pretty good idea of what Max Webster sounded like. So there!

Also: Streetheart > Prism > April Wine > Saga > Aldo Nova > Triumph. But that's only my opinion, of course.

― chuck, Friday, 23 January 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I have that Pat Travers record....you should get it now! It rox.

Steve Vai is the poor man's Paul Gilbert.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i think max webster might even BE jon butcher. in another life.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked Thunder Seven by Triumph when I was a kid, then they put out A Sport of Kings and I was disappointed I thought they sold out (sold out canadian pseudo metal kinda rush-like power trio music or something like that I guess)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

wait, max webster was an actual person wasn't he? or was he mythical friends with jethro tull.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember being a kid and looking through a big coffee-table photo book that my dad brought home of early '80s rock icons: Blondie, Duran Duran, I think Bowie was in there too. I'd get to the photo spread on the Jam and I'd be mystified and fascinated: "Wow! Who the hell are the Jam?! Some English thing!"

― aleksandr supertramp (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I just downloaded an Aldo Nova track last night. "Monkey on Your Back" from his 2nd one. When I was a kid I had no idea it was about heroin. I thought it was about actually having a monkey on your back!

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

is rik emmitt the poor man's michael schenker?

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

>>When I was a kid I had no idea it was about heroin. I thought it was about actually having a monkey on your back!<<

That's almost as good as when Rob Sheffield told me that, as a kid, he thought the line in Cheap Trick's' "Surrender" where they talk about "some Indonesian junk that's going round" was about a boat!

― chuck, Friday, 23 January 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i think it's cool that a little kid would know that a junk is a boat.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

rik emmitt is the rich man's fernando von arb

No kidding about the junk....I thought it was "junk" like just bullshit or smack-talk....I remember kids saying, you're just "talkin' junk"or something like that....I thought some lippy Indonesians had pissed of Cheap Trick.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, I never knew about the nautical origin of the word! I just looked it up. You learn something new every day.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Rik Emmitt is the Steve Forbert of Alex Lifeson followers

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't drink tea, though.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Friday, 23 January 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

is it true that the tea break was invented to feed poor factory workers in victorian england and that per capita sugar consumption rose 500 percent between 1860 and 1890?

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

we have this whole corn syrup/obesity thing going on now over here. we had to do SOMETHING with all that corn we didn't need!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw aldo nova live supporting blue oyser cult. they sux0r3d. Oh hang on, it might have been dokken. Either way, anyway.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

My brother went to see black sabbath and blue oyster cult on the black and blue tour and all i got was a lousy t-shirt(which i wore for the next 5 years)

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

(BOC rocked, BTW)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

in the 8th grade i constantly wore a black sabbath t-shirt that had a skull on the front with blood dripping from the eye sockets. the blood oozed down to form the number 666. i had a bumper sticker on my notebook that said: "And on the 8th day god created black sabbath". i had a huuuuuge black sabbath poster on my wall in my room. AND i had two huuuuuge adam ant posters up too. i was the annoying kid who kept telling the other kids when back in black came out that the other ac/dc albums were way better. they didn't listen to me. i never really got their love for High Infidelity. we agreed to disagree.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

scott you are droppin science for real.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

In I think 7th grade I had an Iron Maiden T-shirt that had Eddie holding up a severed demon head in one hand, with like demon blood oozing out over Eddie's hand. I'm pretty sure I bought the shirt long before I had heard a note of Maiden.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I got sent to the principal's office in 7th grade for wearing a shirt that said "Van Halen Kicks Ass" on the back....those were simpler times.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i bought my first ironic t-shirt in 1987. it was a W.A.S.P. tie-dye! i coudn't resist. i can't even remember what i was listening to in 1987. probably die kreuzen and salt 'n' pepa.

x-post-i got yelled at in 1982 by a baby boomer teacher for wearing a Dead kennedys t-shirt to school ON THE DAY JOHN KENNEDY DIED! i didn't know what day it was. what the hell did i care.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked WASP in 1987, but I wasn't being ironic.

But I mean unless he died in 1982 what's the big deal?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess that's a special day for a lot of people. like Pearl Harbor Day.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i never really paid attention to wasp. the shirt was great. big skull. wonderful tie-dye job. that same day i bought an unironic glow-in-the-dark metallica shirt. ride the lightning on the front/kill 'em all on the back.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

so you liked metal but not wasp....were they too campy for you? or just plain too shitty (which I could see)...or were you more of a hardcore metal/punk/thrash guy?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I like WASP's version of The Real Me better than the Who's. But I havent' heard The Last Command lately but I bet it sucks now.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 23 January 2004 23:53 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i guess i thought they were goofy. i don't really remember. i didn't hear that much of them. i guess i threw them in there with the crue either rightly or wrongly. i would hear about the ribald concerts. master of puppets is what actually got me started on metal again. and reign in blood. for a long stretch there in the 80's i was consumed by punk/hardcore/indie/new wave/noise/rap and metal just reminded me of my former life as a lone judas priest freak in a sea of styx fans. so, you know, i still chose to listen to stuff that most kids in my school wouldn't have anything to do with, but i guess i felt like i was too old for metal. but like i said, the thrash revolution put a stop to that. and then also the various mergings:cro mags, agnostic front, DRT, COC, etc. i mean all that stuff i was listening to after my priest/sabbath days was just metal anyway. well, except for Ebn Ozn and Maurice & The Cliches.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 24 January 2004 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

er, DRI, obv.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 24 January 2004 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

in 1984 i became obsessed with the hardcore and punk that i had missed out on a couple years prior. all the crass/subhumans stuff. all the west-coast stuff:BYO/7 Seconds/Bad Religion. at the same time, i loved Bauhaus/Joy Division, etc.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 24 January 2004 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

my leaps weren't that big in the 80's. i started the decade with the dead kennedys and ended it with NWA. you know, west coast punks fucking shit up all the way around.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 24 January 2004 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

oh god, i killed this thread dead. I'm so sorry, really i am. i didn't mean to! um, sometimes english people see things differently than american people do. cuz they are different. and they come from different places. is that better? sorry again. my bad.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 24 January 2004 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked the stories! But I am simple and guileless.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 January 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"And isn't Tony MacAlpine, like, the poor man's Yngwie/Steve Vai?"

Tony McAlpine is the poor man's Jimi Hendrix, as are Sonny Sharrock, Prince, Blood Ulmer, Vernon Reid, etc. At least among a lotta white old-fogey critics who see an AfricanAmerican guitar hero and automatically compare him to Hendrix no matter how preposterous the comparison.

To be fair, Ronnie Isley and the lategreat Eddie Hazel did indeed sound alot like Jimi. But then so did Robin Trower, and he's nearly as white as me.

― Scott Bloomfield, Saturday, 24 January 2004 07:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I think pop music is a bigger thing in the UK than in the US in general. I mean, here we buy music (well, we used to) but don't really care about it or want to talk about it much, usually.

― Dan I., Saturday, 24 January 2004 07:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it boils down to this: Brits are Mods and Americans are Rockers.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Saturday, 24 January 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

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