James Brown: same old bag

http://images.prosperpoint.com/images/323/17168-5694.jpg

I have no idea what a sally port is, but I love this. I can hear him singing it, actually.

Re. Mr Hongro's comment: is it possible to agree and disagree with a comment simultaneously, i.e. it is an obviously stupid and asinine comment, but then again, had there been no JB, then consequently no dullard post-1985 soul boys gargling on about Sweaty Soul Passion & Honesty Not Plastik Koktail Krap?

Garbage. There would've been no 'Cold Sweat', no 'I Don't Want Nobody To Give Me Nothing', no 'If There Was A Time', no 'The Payback', no JBs, no Lyn Collins (and therfore no 'Rock Me Again and Again and Again and Again and Again and Again'), no 'Try Me', no 'Get Up, Get Into It, Get Involved', no Clyde Stubblefield and Jabo Starks funky drummer interplay, etc etc etc etc etc, and the world would've been a much poorer place. To suggest the sum total of James Brown's contribution to this world adds up to "dullard post-1985 soul boys gargling on about Sweaty Soul Passion & Honesty Not Plastik Koktail Krap", or even to suggest that James Brown contributed to this phenomena more than any other soul singer (which i'd argue against) is one sorry-assed sub-Morley posture too far.

Iconoclasm = zzzzz when that's all its there for.

Fine by me; would the world really be poorer for the absence of the above? Funk is an ingredient of music, not the whole recipe.

But also no Kraftwerk, no systematic de-Westernisation of pop music, etc etc etc etc etc etc, so obviously there would be a downside as well. Which is why I wrote in the first line of my post that "it is an obviously stupid and asinine comment." As a music journalist, one would have thought that you would have taken account of everything I had written rather than selected excerpts from what I had written.

Still, never mind; what you fail to understand is that your voice is not your own and that you are the product of a 1985-era NME discourse. Enjoy yourself in your Winsley Street bunker, whose population and readership I note have been systematically evacuating in the direction of King's Reach Tower over recent months.

My, what a pompous and condescending little shit you are. You'll do well at IPC...

And for what its worth, Marcello, I'm a freelancer, Mojo isn't the only place I write, but I still prefer it to Uncut (which has some great writers, nonetheless, including your superior - in every conceivable way - David Peschek, and the godlike Allan Jones). You talk of a post-1985 NME discourse, but I must admit to being utterly ignorant of this discourse - I didn't start reading NME till grunge, and even then much preferred Melody maker over that - and any opinions I might have formed about James Brown come from the fact that I am totally in awe of the music he made (and he had a huge hand in the development of soul from the roots of gospel and blues, not just funk) and that the live take of 'Cold Sweat' from the Dallas 1968 LP (the twelve minute one with the blazing drum breaks) just absolutely rewires my neuroceptors every time I hear it. But, yeah, whatever.

By the way Marcello, I don't indulge in the pissy political pissing games of my publisher like you seem to get a hard-on doing; they pay me for my words, not my slavish ass-licking support in every other sphere of existence. I'm an independent voice, for better or for worse, whether you like that or not, and would be stating the same opinions (albeit presented differently) were I writing for any of the magazines I either contribute to or edit. But you go on ahead and hide behind some righteous Uncut shield of honour - when's the next Eagles cover?

But then, sir, if we are talking about "better writing," then surely it is the mark of a better writer that he justifies his passion with attention to detail - for instance, basing a record review on all 39 tracks rather than ten tracks heard once at a playback? If that's the game you wish to play?

How nicely two-faced, by the way, that you should call Jonesy "godlike" and then have a crack at the "next Eagles cover" of a magazine which the selfsame Jonesy edits and over which he has ultimate aesthetic/stylistic control.

Me? My voice is as independent as any. I like Uncut because they are good and fair to me - a lot better and fairer than, for example, the Wire - and yes, my work for them effectively pays the rent every month, and what's wrong with that? I show loyalty to all of my employers, be they the NHS, or Verso, or IPC Media. Why shouldn't I?

Right, so that's Brownell and me off your ticksheet - any other IPC journalists you fancy sneering at, to cheer yourself up?

Tell me about Uncut's ABC figures again, not that that's not the most obvious and tiresome "my dick's bigger than yours" game in the whole world. FASCINATING. Heat outsells Uncut, so I guess that's a better magazine.

And Jonesy *is* godlike, as far as I'm concerned. And I understand why Uncut covers on The Eagles (and Nigel Williamson, a writer you no doubt snidely diss behind his back, who writes such pieces is a friend), I just think their choice of covers is dulldulldull. I understand why they're doing it, it just doesn't make me wanna buy the magazine. I don't think that contradicts with thinking Allan a great writer and editor and also human being.

I wouldn't hire a writer whose argument against James Brown is "what you fail to understand is that your voice is not your own and that you are the product of a 1985-era NME discourse". Its bullshit. Its insulting bullshit. And it demeans everyone who reads and writes music journalism in its sweeping dismissal of readers' intelligence and ability to think for themselves. Like I said, you'll do well at IPC.

And I haven't said anything against Doomie that he didn't expressly and purposefully provoke in a very long time.

I know your weaselly kind, Marcello. You don't fool me.

I don't believe I ever said anything was wrong about that. Indeed, that's commendable, and as a freelancer I wouldn't disdain anyone's way of making money, just like I wouldn't expose writers who work pseudonomically and endanger their ways of making a living (fwiw I was approached to write pseudonomically for Uncut, informally, a whiles ago, but I don't have time to and have come unstuck on writing under psuedonym before).

I show loyalty to all of my employers, be they the NHS, or Verso, or IPC Media. Why shouldn't I?

Loyalty's one thing, Marcello. Jumping up and down and saying, yah boo sucks my magazine sells better than yours, lalala, is an altogether different, and pathetic, thing.

T/S Kneejerk slavish support of a revered artist Vs Kneejerk ill-thought and porrly expressed dismissal of same.

Zzzz. Wake me when you have a point.

Someone help me out here - I thought the actual charges that James Brown was imprisoned upon in the 1980s were merely not stopping when flagged down by police. Which is not to argue that he wasn't also high on PCP at the time, etc, or to defend the domestic violence he was accused of - but Dave Marsh's epilogue to Brown's autobiography makes a convincing (if, by me, unexplored or unchallenged) argument that Brown's prison sentence was deeply suspect, since the PCP charges, etc, were unproven and/or inadmissable in terms of the charges he was incarcerated for (ie, evading arrest)...

1985, marvellous year I thought.

Oh hold on

and what's your point, stevie, namely what is the point of you? if i recall from upthread, you were the one who steamed in with your "Garbage" rage in response to my perfectly reasoned argument. you could have debated it in a more considered way. but no, you had to ramrod in, waving your manhood about, so don't be surprised when you get it waved back at you twofold. i micturate all over you as a writer, so don't try it.

anyway stevie, i've emailed you about something different, btw so go check yr hotmail account.

hahah, i can if it means no paolo hewitt, no red wedge, no mick hucknall, no tom jones...it is worth the sacrifice!

it is entirely possible that in the uk, "tarzan boy" by baltimora outsold the entire james brown back catalogue put together. that wizened old walnut jb would need a pacemaker after the third "woh-OH!"

soul II soul; first two singles yes (owing more i think to chic than to jb - those oriental strings), the rest yeucchh (lest we forget: "wot's the meaning of liiiife?").

indeed i had forgotten that hucknall bankrolls blood & fire, so ok i'll excuse him for that.

personally i always thought that '70s miles davis was way funkier than ol' jb...not to mention george clinton!

but yes my number one PRO-jb argument; no jb, no kraftwerk and therefore no anything else these last 20 years!

Man, I'm working at the wrong kind of magazine. We never get into fights with anyone at The New Yorker.

dave s:
i think the barrier i have with jb - apart from the nme, hornby etc. ramming him down my throat for the last 15 years as the apex of Purity and Authenticity; indeed the nme in the mid-'80s caused me to stop listening to black music altogether for a little while because of the same reasons - is that his funk seems to be just funk and nothing else. whereas with clinton, miles, sly, etc., it's just one ingredient amongst many, and their music is more interesting to me as a result. also i have an aversion to that whole testosterone grunting department of "real man" soul vox - i'm a gaye/green/mayfield man. but points taken about the wild bunch; that compilation of theirs from a couple of years ago really did lean heavily on the early '80s though...

Marcello, I'm not a suppposed journalist. I'm a writer.

And those asterixes left it obvious to me who you were referring to. What exactly was yr point? Do you want to fuck up these peoples' writing gigs elsewhere?

MODS. PLEASE DELETE REFERENCES TO PSEUDONOMIC WRITERS; THIS WILL CAUSE SERIOUS PROBLEMS FOR THEM IF THEIR EDITORS DISCVER THEY ARE MOONLIGHTING.

Marcello, why don't you consult the two gentlemen you outed above and see if they feel your asterixes are vague enough for them? And why not ask david if he minds you causing such needless hassle for writers he respects enough to commission?

and what's your point, stevie, namely what is the point of you? if i recall from upthread, you were the one who steamed in with your "Garbage" rage in response to my perfectly reasoned argument. you could have debated it in a more considered way. but no, you had to ramrod in, waving your manhood about, so don't be surprised when you get it waved back at you twofold. i micturate all over you as a writer, so don't try it.

I wasn't waving my manhood about, Marcello. I ignored Geir's point because, hey, that's Geir's schtick. Then you waded in with your poorly excuse for an argument about James Brown, and I replied that to disregard James Brown because of some 1980s NME mindset that obviously rocked yr world (me, I was 10 yrs old in 1985 and happily ignorant of NME, my head glued to the pages of X-Men instead) was nonsense, and listed a number of achievements I felt worthy of consideration.

Your respectful and considered reply took the form of declaring I obviously couldn't have my own opinion, and that as a writer from Mojo I was obviously given to a much poorer hive-mentality than you Uncut people (who you've implicitly acknowledged to contain at least several Mojo peeps along the way).

If you can't see how this is a) not a cogent or convincing argument and b) refuse to acknowledge that it is actually severly offensive and disrespectful way to respond to a question of taste, then you're even more cretinous than I imagine you are. If this is how you respond to discussions in the real world, then I picture your fce the result of many pub-wide fistular mashings. Of course, I've no doubt that, in the world of oxygen and real, solid things, you keep your sordid and mithering opinions to yourself, unless you're in the presence of similarly sorry and snobbish individuals.

Again, you're gonna soar at IPC.

I should have read this stuff sooner, I wouldn't have posted those nice comments about Tarzan Boy on the other thread.

"I'm all for challenging assumptions, but arguing against James Brown seems like saying that oxygen isn't all it's cracked up to be".

Damned straight.

I don't care at all about the squabbles above, I just wanted to address this directly. For me, it's pretty easy to have a funk foundation to a song and then put a bunch of anything else over the top. It doesn't do much for me, often. I remember overhearing some hot break or intro to a song, and then the acoustic guitars and vocals came in (it was either Ani diFranco or Fiona Apple) and completely diluted the effect of the rhythm section.

It's a lot more challenging to have each and every part adding to the groove and making it funkier. To me, it doesn't get any harder than JB, each song is like a perfectly balanced equation or something where all the parts interlock and make the most amazing grooves, that hardly anyone has equaled since.

otm

Because it does.

'try me' to thread.

Oh please, I'm sure you can figure out the general gist.

in occasional student discos throughout the '80s i tried playing james brown a couple of times, and on both occasions he completely cleared the floor

Well, this was England, right?

(b) This was the 1980s, when hip and happening kids preferred to bop to kandi-kolored shiny yellow Nu Pop fops rather than "old shit" by their grandad. Quite right too. James Brown was useless until hip hop arrived to give him some point. "Eric B Kills Soul!" thank the Lord!

b) James Brown is hip-hop. Or at least all he had the aesthetics down a good 15 years ahead of time.

Great, Marcello's made another inciteful statement that will give this thread at least 50 more postings worth of life.

JB was a big influence on hip-hop because loads of young black youth idolized him. By definition, I believe that constitutes being ahead of his time and not useless.

However, as you said earlier in the thread, without JB there's no Kraftwerk. But without Kraftwerk, there's no hip-hop. Or at the very least, without Kraftwerk, hip-hop remains party music with suburbanites rapping over disco records.

So maybe hip-hop didn't need JB *that* badly after all. Kraftwerk would have been the most sampled band instead of the second-most sampled.

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=2&mode=messages&q=stevie+chick+nme+kerrang&titlepart=&name=&email=&username=&dateafter=&datebefore=&catid=all

-- Geir Hongro (geirhon...), January 29th, 2004.

Don't you just want to pinch Geir's cheek and saw "awwwww" sometimes?

http://www.geocities.com/cagerules/Images/Arizona3.jpg http://augustachronicle.com/images/headlines/012904/15054_512.jpg

A) Y'all some mentalists.
2) That's why I love you.
D) Without the music of James Brown (which I love, but that's beside the point), Fela would never have did what he did.
5) Which woulda sucked.

now let's cry no more tears of crocodile for eric "vote for enoch powell" clapton.

I'm sorry (I don't know why I'm apologising) but this made me laugh!

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art3/jbrownass1.jpg

Jungle life
I'm far away from nowhere
On my own like Tarzan Boy

Hide and seek
I play along while rushing cross the forest
Monkey business on a sunny afternoon

Jungle life
I'm living in the open
Native beat that carries on

Burning bright
A fire the blows teh signal to the sky
I sit and wonder does the message get to you

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

Night to night
Gimme the other, gimme the other
Chance tonight
Gimme the other, gimme the other
Night to night
Gimme the other, gimme the other world

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

Jungle life
You're far away from nothing
It's all right
You won't miss home

Take a chance
Leave everything behind you
Come and join me
Won't be sorry
It's easy to survive

Jungle life
We're living in the open
All alone like Tarzan Boy

Hide and seek
We play along while rushing cross the
forest
Monkey business on a sunny afternoon

Night to night
Gimme the other, gimme the other
Chance tonight, Oh Yeah
Night to night
Gimme the other, gimme the other
Night to night
You won't play

Night to night
Gimme the other, gimme the other
Chance tonight, Oh Yeah
Night to night
Night to night
Gimme the other, gimme the other

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh...

I am not Marcello, Matos.

Too bad he wasn't jailed for 30 years around 1963 instead, because then music had been better today than it is.

Yeah, pinch his cheek and go "awww." And then a swift kick in the tukkus.