Where's the light at the end....

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Like when are we going to see another revolution that DOESN'T suck? All these 'indie' kids (Liars, Interpol, Rapture, etc.) are mediocre acts praised the best thing since which ever band they're ripping off because they don't COMPLETELY blow. In a nutshell, how/when are we going to see another Nirvana?

― JesusMaryChain, Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

You aren't.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

How cool would it be if Timbaland produced the next Rapture album?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

when all the "art-punk" kids realize they're all ripping off Hunters and Collectors and respond accordingly :)...

― Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Change your posting name, I can't imagine the Reid brothers asking for another Nirvana.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Allow me to rephrase....

A band that's good and can sell enough to alter the current course punk is taking. Namely, into the shitter.

― JesusMaryChain, Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

not possible

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

A band that's good and can sell enough to alter the current course punk is taking. Namely, into the shitter

I think there are more indie/punk whatever bands that I'm excited about than there have been for a long time.

Nirvana just basically got popular is all, they didn't really change any direction or anything....(I love Nirvana don't get me wrong, but "grunge" or whatever was well underway already)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Hot Hot Heat and Vines would have been taken the current punk revival into a better direction had they only been deservedly bigger than Strokes and White Stripes.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 29 January 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought hot hot heat, vines, white stripes, and strokes were all a part of the same revival. the, uh, new rock garage retro rock revival or whatever they call it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

At least Hot Hot Heat and Vines have proper melodies, they aren't just noise and screaming.

That's why they are better. Britpop was still reviving a lot better music than the "new rock" scene does though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

white stripes have melodies, geir. you should listen to some of their stuff. you might like it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

White Stripes are usually too blues oriented to have proper melodies, unless they do Bacharach covers, which doesn't give the world anything new in the form of new melodic songs anyway

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

So do The Strokes! Oh my god, their music could not be any less "noise and screaming", especially next to The friggin Vines.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

geir, you would love the last couple Anathema records. you should buy "A Fine Day To Exit". It will be your new favorite album. And Opeth's last album too.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I still see more hope for the future in Travis, Coldplay etc. :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i dunno, coldplay are way too traditional and old-tymey for me.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

i prefer Doves.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

First music needs to get back to the style of the old days, and get rid of anything initiated by hip-hop AND punk. And then it may start again, developing new music forms without the existing styles that were in the mid 70s/mid 80s. :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Doves are fine too. As are all those acts (Flaming Lips, SFA, Beck) that try to combine traditional melodic soundwriting with more "recent" musical elements, only without sacrificing the songwriting/melody composing itself as the most important element.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

there is plenty of music that acts as if hip-hop and punk never happened. you should listen to norah jones and fiona apple.or sarah maclaughlin(sic?)

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

you will love "A Fine Day To Exit". I guarantee it!! really, buy it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

there is plenty of music that acts as if hip-hop and punk never happened. you should listen to norah jones and fiona apple.or sarah maclaughlin

Except UK indie has provided a lot more better music than those.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The Opeth album is called Damnation. You would love that too. very beautiful. proggy. lovely melodies.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Scott I kiss you.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

someday I'm finally going to get the balls to dive into that whole prog/goth/doomy/disco/operatic stuff like Opeth, I swear!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

dontcha think geir would love the aislers set as well! Jeez, it's right up his alley. Phil Spector with a 21st century twist. Geir, try "How I Learned To Write Backwards". It's a beaut.

Matt, Damnation is truly lovely and nothing like other Opeth albums as it is mostly acoustic. whereas the other Opeth albums have acoustic parts woven in with the metal.It's a beautiful album. nothing operatic about it either. not that i have anything against operatics.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I would tell Geir to buy the last Katatonia album as well, but i don't want to overwhelm him with Swedes.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

But lots of annyong grinding, I suppose.....

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

A band that's good and can sell enough to alter the current course punk is taking. Namely, into the shitter.

Maybe if you managed to remove the subjectivity from your potentially very objective query, then you might find more appropriate answers.

― dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I've never heard anything of any of those kinda bands, so maybe it's not operatic (don't some of them use choirs, though?)...I always chicken out when I'm going to buy one....Is there any other good bands in this "style" (I don't what it's called I have only a vague idea of this "scene" being out there)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Man, between this and the mediocrity thread, it's a fine time for, well, something.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

My thoughts-or-lack-thereof exactly Ned.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, Opeth are great and I have every faith that Katatonia are great too. *escapes another beatdown from Mr. Seward*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

But lots of annyong grinding, I suppose.....

on the opeth or the katatonia? no, no "grinding" on either. if by "grinding" you mean some sort of metal noise you don't like. no, just beauty and rock music.

(it's okay ned. i know you are a busy guy.)

I'm really excited by this Lansing-Dreiden album i got. They are some sort of art/design team from brooklyn and they have put out a new album that is pushing ALL my buttons. It starts out sounding like 70's era Golden Earring glammish/hard rock then it goes into goth/sad boy territory and then it hits some of the same dream-pop notes of say Souvlaki-era Slowdive and then by the end they are doing full-on Alphaville new wave that sounds excellent and not even all that retro. i've played it like 50 times already.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Matt, when I was aware of this scene, oh, five or six years ago, it was Opeth, Anathema, Katatonia, Paradise Lost, Therion, Dark Tranquility, In Flames, Sentenced, Amorphis, My Dying Bride, um, I can't think of anymore.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a great list/primer, Jordan.And a great place to start for anybody.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

it's okay ned. i know you are a busy guy

You don't want to know -- I just fully realized what was going on with the Jewelled Antler/Pink Skulls labels and I am starting to slaver.

I actually lived with a black metal fanatic for a few years -- great guy, but I never properly investigated his collection as I ought. I do like his story of how he found love -- he was at a local record store searching through the bins and lo and behold a female personage also wanting to figure out the latest releases from Century Media and what new Cradle of Filth records were out. They got married in October. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Sweet! Then I haven't missed much. :> I'd be happy to list albums too, Matt.

Ned, that's adorable.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

hmm, I recently picked up a used Katatonia cd I found, Last Fair Deal Gone Down based largely on Scott's ongoing recommendations. I have to say I couldn't really get into it. It wasn't quite what I was expecting. I guess I'm not sure what I was expecting. Perhaps a bit more post-thrash/death/black movement. It's all a little too monochromatic and "alternative" sounding for me, I think. It sounds like it could have come from about 10 years earlier. But I only listened to it once. In fact, I was pretty much planning to give it another listen today. I will put it on as soon as this Dwight Yoakam cd is over.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(I have to say, Katatonia's my least favorite band out of the ones I listed)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

The new Tiamat disc, Prey, is also excellent; much better than their last one.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks to all for the metal advice. See, JesusMaryChain – everything's going to be alright! Yay!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

also, to those of you with the 411 on the black metal --- what should the first album I get in this style be?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Siegbran to thread! The first one I ever bought was Emperor's In the Nightside Eclipse, and it didn't let me down. But I'm about as far away from having the 411 as you can be; but I loved it.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I think this thread proves that the light at the end of the tunnel was black metal.

Before I die, I fully plan to acquire all the albums from Siegbran's master list.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm...well it depends what you're looking for, but maybe Opeth's Blackwater Park? Scott probably is a much bigger Opeth fan than me.

Sentenced's 'Amok' is like Iron Maiden meets death metal meets rock n' roll.

Amorphis 'Elegy' is a pretty awesome mix of metal and Finnish folk melodies and other stuff.

Oh yeah, Edge of Sanity's 'Crimson' is one of my favorite metal albums ever, but it's a little tough because it's one forty minute song (yet it all flows and it is really catchy).

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, you can't go wrong with In The Nightside Eclipse if you want to try a black metal album. it's wonderful.

And, ack!, Jordan, they are by far my favorite on your list. Katatonia that is. Although Anathema are a close second.

Broheems, yeah, definitely listen to Last Fair Deal again. It needs to be heard more than once. I had a similar reaction to it after falling in love with their previous albums Brave Murder Day(More death/doom with death vocals from M.A. from Opeth) and Discouraged Ones which i bought cuz it was touted as a doom metal album that red house painter or cure fans would love. that sounded kinda intriguing. it's better than that description though. And Last Fair Deal is truly a transition album. As was Tonight's Decision. New sounds, different production. more mainstream. but i still love it. I feel that they are doing something really unique with hard rock/alternative hard rock, whatever you want to call it. And I love the latest Viva Emptiness as well. I dunno, for me it boils down to: I could mainline their guitar sounds. I love what they do with guitar. October Tide is cool too. a side-project that is more death/doom. And Bloodbath which it TOTAL old-school swedish death. And diablolical Masquerade which is cool avant/death and Bewitched and and and...oh, somebody stop me.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

tonight's decision was actually the album after Discouraged Ones that took the longest for me to wrap my head around cuz i guess i wanted it to sound the same and it didn't and the band actually made me WORK to understand where they were going. but once i got used to the sound i kept pulling it out and now i love it to pieces. Last Fair Deal wasn't such a shock.

I love Mayhem and Dissection for Black Metal too. and Darkthrone. Try Storm of the Light's Bane by Dissection IF YOU DARE! (opeth were, and still are, kinda, a death metal band)

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I think all the bands I mentioned are 'evolved' death metal bands that all used to sound really raw and dark and heavy, and eventually became more melodic and interesting in all kinds of different ways.

I guess I was always WAY more into Paradise Lost (circa Icon/Draconian Times/One Second) and Anathema than Katatonia, Scott. :> (I wouldn't mind hearing what they are doing now though).

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Amorphis 'Elegy' is a pretty awesome mix of metal and Finnish folk melodies and other stuff.

John D. to thread! I got this specifically because he wrote about it in Last Plane to Jakarta.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

The My Kantele EP that followed Elegy was the best thing they ever did though...the last track from the album, the acoustic version, two awesome originals, and Hawkwind and Kingston Wall covers, mmmm. :>

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Paradise Lost were great! And any member of Katatonia will tell you so for hours probably. They were a big influence on lots of bands. Yeah, what Katatonia is doing now is quite different from where they started from.
I'm listening to October Tide's "Grey Dawn" album(Jonas&Fredrik of Katatonia) and it's a great death/doom l.p. i can't remember what year it came out-and the Bloodbath album only came out a year ot 2 ago-so, you know, they haven't abandoned their roots. And they play all styles extremely well. The Bloodbath thing started out as a joke, but death metal fans loved it so much they had to make a whole album!(started out as a drunken goof one-off e.p.)

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm...for various reasons, you characters all need to hear some Raunchy Young Lepers.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Dan Swano is in Bloodbath right? I heard that shit, it's hilarious (in a good way).

Ooh, I want to go home and find Dan Swano's solo album, the one that was death metal + moogs and analog keyboard fetish where he played all the instruments.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

that is the greatest band name I think I have ever heard

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

The Gathering yo

― Begs2Differ, Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, of course. Nighttime Birds!

I love the path that this thread has taken.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

that is the greatest band name I think I have ever heard

You have no idea, my friend.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmm...for various reasons, you characters all need to hear some Raunchy Young Lepers.

Too true, the Rapture copped their every move.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

i love the gathering. love the new one too. that's what i love about katatonia's last 3 albums. and past gathering albums. it's really well-made well-played melancholic hard rock that is extremely catchy at times and yet it doesn't sound like anything on the radio. it could be on the radio though. as shweppervescence have proved.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

how to measure a planet is one of the great hard rock albums that not a lot of people have heard. in a class all its own.(um, by the gathering) they are bigger in europe though. and the netherlands.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

if only it were cryptochristian like Everiffic, Souvenirs would be top 40 with a bullet. LITERALLY

― Begs2Differ, Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan Swano's last album sounded like Asia or Europe apparently. i want to hear that! these guys never sleep.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

geir should really hear-i realize geir has run screaming by now-the anathema side-project Anti-matter. beautiful atmospheric trip-hoppy stuff.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

y'know, I do believe he'd also really like Brazilian techno if he ever gave it a chance. BUT YOU KNOW HE NEVER WOULD. geir's too busy buggin' out to outkast!

― Begs2Differ, Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

he likes missy too! you can't always peg him. are the deftones the only mainstream hard rock/metal band who do interesting things with textures. with interplay between 2 guitars? not that i really listen to them, but the few things i've heard suggest to me that they are the rare band who are interested in "sound" as an idea to play with or experiment with. i guess that Rage dude had some ideas. that in-the-red wall-of-teble ross robinson approach is so very popular here for all kinds of rock. katatonia records have so many levels. to me. and they sound even better loud. whereas, american hard rock is often made to always sound loud like a commercial on t.v.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Back to the Question... I have pondered this on many occasion and have only marveled at the lack of an answer. It will happen when it happens, and you better pay attention or it will happen without you.

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Friday, 30 January 2004 08:34 (twenty-two years ago)

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