TS: Vinnie Vincent vs Mark St John vs Bruce Kulick

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Anyone read that book by Ace Frehley's roadie? Funnier than shit. 'Ace was telling my dad about his new album titled 'Trouble Walkin'. "'Trouble Walkin''?" "Yeah, like James Dean. 'Trouble Walkin'. Attitude." "I thought you meant 'Trouble Walkin'' as in you had too many beers." Ace didn't get the joke.'

― dave q, Friday, 16 April 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Ace is not the brightest of bulbs, despite what "Behind the Mask" asserts.

Of the three, I'd go with Vinnie, who at least had a personality (despite later forming Vinnie Vincent's Invasaion, many of whose members would later join Nelsson, if I'm not mistaken).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 16 April 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i like the vinnie vincent invasion first record...it's basically good pop metal, but with a true metal shrillness and then vinnie's solos are so bonkers speed kills berzerk that they add this weird atonality to the whole proceedings...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 16 April 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Definitely Vinnie! Good riffs. Lick it Up is their best album. How come people don't mention "All Hell's Breakin' Loose" when they talk about rock/rap hybrids?

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 16 April 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I knew this was a Dave Q thread. Kulick seems to be the only who survived a tenure with the band without being TOO foolish...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 April 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Insane Foolishness (VInnie) beats anonymous professionalism (Kulick)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 16 April 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I felt bad for Mark St. John though, didn't he have to retire because of some degenerative condition?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 16 April 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

At the very end of "Get All You Can Take" on 'Animalize' Mark St John plays a George Benson-type jazz lick on what sounds like a clean-toned hollowbody. Buried in the mix of course, but probably the weirdest moment on a Kiss record, including 'The Elder'. Imagine if Alizee did 'Animalizee'.

― dave q, Friday, 16 April 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

dave q like woah...i can see i'm outta my league in terms of kiss knowledge!

who is your favorite out of the three?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 16 April 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

, I'd go with Vinnie, who at least had a personality (despite later forming Vinnie Vincent's Invasaion, many of whose members would later join Nelsson, if I'm not mistaken).

Slaughter. Ditching Vinnie turned out to be a commercially fortuitous decision. The former sold records, the latter's a footnote.

Kulick made a record with some Kiss cronies called "ESP," a band of ringers popular at Kiss Konventions. As a selection of covers, it was a pretty good CD with a terrific version of "Four Day Creep."

― George Smith, Friday, 16 April 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

How come people don't mention "All Hell's Breakin' Loose" when they talk about rock/rap hybrids?

I've mentioned it a few times. I think it's largely overlooked becauuse (a) it's Kiss and (b) it's pretty laughable.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 16 April 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

(b) of course follows from (a)

Really I was just trying to get you to argue with my claim about Lick It Up!

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 16 April 2004 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Lick It Up is definitely their best without make-up album. My fave overall album, though, is Creatures of the Night, great drum sound. Hell, I really dig Dynasty and Unmasked, too. "Torpedo Girl"

Can one of you Kiss fanatics explain how Kulick ended up on the non make-up cover of Creatures of the Night? This is a murky time in kisstory!!!!!! I love that joke.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Friday, 16 April 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Re 'laughable' - "All Hell's Breakin' Loose" vs "Radar For Love" vs "Read My Body"

Matt - Vinnie, for the hidden track on 'Invasion' ("hey...tell all your friends about us")

― dave q, Friday, 16 April 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Can one of you Kiss fanatics explain how Kulick ended up on the non make-up cover of Creatures of the Night? This is a murky time in kisstory!!!!!! I love that joke.

Because Ace didn't play on that album. Sure he's on the cover (as is Peter) but neither of them actually played on it, I don't believe (read "Behind the Mask" for details, if you can stomach it).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 16 April 2004 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Lick it Up may indeed be their finest non-makeup album, but that's honestly not saying very much.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 16 April 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Not saying much? Kiss didn't even hit their artistic stride 'til '87, from Crazy Nights on....

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Saturday, 17 April 2004 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Kulick seems to be the only who survived a tenure with the band without being TOO foolish...

but that was b/c mr. kulick played on only, like, one KISS album?

Not saying much? Kiss didn't even hit their artistic stride 'til '87, from Crazy Nights on....

mr. farrar obviously has a very dry sense of humor ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 17 April 2004 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

but that was b/c mr. kulick played on only, like, one KISS album?

No, he has a few under his belt.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 17 April 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i stand corrected ... from AMG:

Although Ace Frehley is considered the quintessential Kiss guitarist by most fans (he was an original member and vital force), it was Bruce Kulick who occupied Kiss' guitarist position for the longest amount of time - 11 years, from 1984-1995. Born in Brooklyn, New York on December 12, 1953, Kulick discovered music through his older guitar-playing brother, Bob.

... though mr. raggett scares me w/ his knowledge of post-ace KISS.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 17 April 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Refer to the Chris Lendt book I mention on the Elder thread Dave Q started.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 17 April 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"Sure he's on the cover (as is Peter) but neither of them actually played on it,"

I believe Eric Carr as "the fox" is the drummer on both versions of the Creatures of the Night cover.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Saturday, 17 April 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I figured out this god damn mystery. In '85 Kiss remixed and re-released Creatures of the Night, adding the wihtout make-up photo featuring their newly acquired guitarist, Bruce Kulick, but it is Vinnie Vincent who actually played on the record back in '82. Shit, Vinnie got screwed both ways because Ace is pictured on the original. Why is this wracking my brain?

My vote goes for Vinnie and that crazy make-up he wore.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Saturday, 17 April 2004 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Not saying much? Kiss didn't even hit their artistic stride 'til '87, from Crazy Nights on..

I refuse to take that bait.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 17 April 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw the Crazy Nights tour. They were in the pocket.

But seriously, it was so completely uneventful that the promoters' main angle for that tour was that Kiss were bringing the largest/tallest KISS light-up stage sign to date! A true non-event.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Sunday, 18 April 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I do have a lot of love for Asylum (the first Kiss I ever owned)....Tears Are Falling is one of the most sad/haunting pop metal hits of the 80s....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Sunday, 18 April 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh stop it. No it's not.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

No I won't. Yes it is!

(okay maybe i'm exaggerating but i love that song)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Sunday, 18 April 2004 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Relative to the emotional depth typically found in '80s pop metal, "Tears are Falling" is indeed a heavyweight trip through the darkest corridors of Paul Stanley's soul. I especially like the end of that video where he is swinging from a vine.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Gene's get-up in that video is especially cringe-worthy (whilst manfully plucking his bass on a volcanic landscape peppered with sluttering tv sets).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

YES!!!!! The set and wardrobe combined made for one of the most retarded events ever filmed. I vaguely remember Paul wearing neon lime green on the arms(?) and a neon pink-n-black zebra striped coat with tails!!!

They started off their non make-up look in more of a denim-n-leather Escape from New York look then they added a touch of the new wave with the neons and whatnot. Was Animalize or Asylum first?

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Was Animalize or Asylum first?

Can't remember, but honestly....does it really matter? They equal direness was trumped only by the singularly lamentable Crazy Nights.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Was Dynasty post-punk?

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Dynasty was post-enjoyable.

yes, it was `79, I believe.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Literally post Punk, but not stylistically "post-punk" (although there is that disco element).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Soul Jazz should release a funky Kiss compilation.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

sluttering tv sets

That's a wonderful misspelling!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 18 April 2004 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

When I was living in Astoria the dude who lived in the apartment directly over mine was the brother of Peter Criss, Joe Criscoula. They look alike except Joe's face paint depicts a Russian lynx. He and his family are super cool, great neighbors. They once showed me where the fusebox was. I knocked on their door late one night, and Joe's mother answered the door in full cat make-up, too. But seriously, I wish them the best of luck in '04. Maybe I should ask him if Soul Jazz should put together a post-punk Kiss compilation.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Sunday, 18 April 2004 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe I should ask him if Soul Jazz should put together a post-punk Kiss compilation.

I would SO buy one, if so.

Ace & Peter are not in the `04 incarnation (touring with Poison this summer, if I'm not mistaken).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I think they missed a big opportunity....the summer of their official reunion tour (`96?) was the same as the Sex Pistols first reuion tour. Now THAT would be a double bill to get excited about....and not as incongruous as it might seem.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Back in the day, I remember hearing about some feud between Poison and Kiss. Poison claimed they played "Rock 'n' Roll All Nite" better than Kiss. Paul and Gene freaked and challenged Poison to a battle of the bands-type contest with the audience deciding who rocked the song harder. Maybe this will finally go down. Anybody want to car pool to the concert?

I'm going to keep this thread on crutches with more insipid memories of one of rock's worse bands. Kiss (with or without shit on their face) just sucks, don't they? But, I still want the post-punk historial revision of their disco phase.

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Monday, 19 April 2004 02:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Paul and Gene freaked and challenged Poison to a battle of the bands-type contest with the audience deciding who rocked the song harder.

If this is true, they unwittingly paid Poison the biggest compliment by even acknowledging them in the first place.

with or without shit on their face

Haha. I much prefer "with", personally. And once upon a time.....and I know it sounds ludicrous....they were genuinely entertaining and showed real promise.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 April 2004 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"Dirty Livin'" sounded a bit like the 23 Skidoo reunion

― dave q, Monday, 19 April 2004 11:17 (twenty-two years ago)

This proposed post-punk comp. will finally make good on all that early promise. So far we got "Dirty Livin" and of course "I Was Made For Loving You" is the anchor. What else? Can "Sure Know Something" off of Dynasty maybe sneak in as a new romantics kind of soul jam?

― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't Kulick get a bullet in the ass from a drive-by shooting on Hollywood Blvd. a few years ago? That instantly made him the coolest member of Kiss ever.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but in the ass? Nothin' cool about that.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

A dub version of the Slits-like "Naked City" would be good too.

― dave q, Monday, 19 April 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

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