TS: Killing Joke vs. the Fall

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Who's less played-out?

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 19 April 2004 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Stop putting Killing Joke into the TS threads!!

Please!

― Aja (aja), Monday, 19 April 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Go away.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

But I really want to watch the devotees of the two most overpraised bands on ILM fight it out! Divide and conquer! And when they're all exhausted I'll take over and start posting a whole bunch of threads on how awesome RJD2 is!

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate did you hear that last Killing Joke album? It was pretty fuckin' great!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Only because Dave Grohl was on it.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Killing Joke are less 'played out' I guess - but that's because The Fall are a better band. Sorry Alex

new RJD2 is really good

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate are you familiar with the first two Killing Joke albums? They are also quite great!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes they are!

They went bad later in their carer, but they made some kind of "come back."

― Aja (aja), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I owned one once when I was in some punk-discovery collegiate phase circa 1996. I listened to it a couple times and was mostly underwhelmed. Then I found a couple Hawkwind albums and was all "ok, now we're getting somewhere". I'll put their songs (and the occasional Fall song) on my CDR mixes for cohesion's sake but you can't really make me care much more than that.

I'm turning into one of those surly goth kids who turns to pseudo-Satan-worship just because he's so sick of all the evangelicals.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

the reason Killing Joke wins this taking sides is that they've exercised pretty high quality-control, which isn't something you can say for the Fall. I love the Fall a lot, but when you're buying a Fall album, you always gotta wonder which Fall you're getting: the one that has a vision, or the one that needs money right now? Killing Joke, for my money, only have the one serious misstep ("Brighter Than A Thousand Suns") - other than that, they've been both remarkably true to an aesthetic and unafraid to grow.

That's right I said Killing Joke wins this taking sides even though I prefer listening to the Fall. Go figure.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The first Killing Joke album basically sounds like Hawkwind.

― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

That analogy was kind of half-thought-out. I think I should have called ILM some sort of Coleman/Smith bible belt or something. And then made some remark about how much more entertaining the Strokes are. And then felt really shitty about being such an antagonist.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Killing Joke, for my money, only have the one serious misstep ("Brighter Than A Thousand Suns") - other than that, they've been both remarkably true to an aesthetic and unafraid to grow.

Just add Outside the Gates to that. Only two albums that were, awful.

― Aja (aja), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

(I get the feeling that the only thing truly keeping me from liking Killing Joke/The Fall is that their most vocal proponents hate EVERY SINGLE BAND I HOLD DEAR GODDAMMIT)

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

You should judge them on their music

― Aja (aja), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the first two Killing Joke albums (the only two I own) but neither of them are as good as the half a dozen or so best Fall records (not to mention the various Fall comps of non-album single.)

Fans of both bands can get really annoying (well okay no Fall fans on this board are as annoying as the two most prominent KJ fans, but still serious Fall fans can get kind of tiresome) so I can understand your irritation, Nate.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

But you only own two!

― Aja (aja), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Mostly cuz I can't imagine why I would need more.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

What's your favorite song on each?

just out of curiosity

― Aja (aja), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha you know what I can't remember the last time I put either record on. But I do remember liking them. The single on the Wild Dub comp is reall good ("Turn to Red", yes??) but I don't think that's on the first album, is it? Is "Fall of Because" on the second record? I think I just remember the name of that song cuz of the Justin Broadrick band. Okay I will go home tonite and grab them to listen to at work tomorrow and answer this question.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"Turn to Red" isn't on the first album. I'm not really sure what that's on, but I have it on something. "Fall of Because" is on the second one, but I don't think that is the best off of that. I like it live though! Heehee!

"The fall of
BECAUSE"

― Aja (aja), Monday, 19 April 2004 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

"Turn To Red" appeared on their very first single and later on the "Laugh! I Nearly Bought One" compilation. I find Killing Joke a bit frustrating because to me "Night Time" and "Brighter Than A Thousand Suns" are both so much better than anything else they ever did, despite there being some good earlier stuff here and there. The Fall win hands down, but strangely I'm probably more likely to pull out Killing Joke. Go figure.

― bimble (bimble), Monday, 19 April 2004 05:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Killing Joke had better spin-offs. Youth with The Orb, McCartney, solo remixes, etc., and Jaz Coleman with Anne Dudley and Natacha Atlas.

The Fall had, er, Mark E Smith.

― Autumn Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 19 April 2004 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Killing Joke are awesome.

The Fall are okay i spose.

― mei (mei), Monday, 19 April 2004 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

the fall, even tho killing joke are good too, as their peak period of "dragnet" through let's say "perverted by language", or even shortening it to "grotesque" to "room to live" destroys the the killing joke peak era.

also when killing joke started to suck they became very uninteresting, where as when the fall started to suck they became much more interesting

― chris besinger (chris besinger), Monday, 19 April 2004 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Killing Joke.

No, The Fall.

No, Killing Joke.

No, The Fall.

{repeat to fade]

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread at least makes sense.

Of COURSE I'm going with Killing Joke. They're just simply more consistent (but only just).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 April 2004 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

the one thing is that Killing Joke, as good as they've been, haven't ever quite re-risen to the heights of their first two albums IMO. The Fall, on the other hand, are that rare band who isn't plagued by "we were at our best when still young & full of vinegar" syndrome.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 19 April 2004 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Though it be true... They peaked with "Hex Enduction Hour," if not with "Grotesque." What, almost 20 years ago?

― no opinion, Monday, 19 April 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

you'd get a lot of disagreement on that, burlap.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

"When you're buying a Fall album, you always gotta wonder which Fall you're getting: the one that has a vision, or the one that needs money right now?"

John, I think that this is true of all of the live albums they put out and the compilations, but not true of their studio albums proper. I don't think they put out a sub-par album until Levitate, really--and even on that and the Marshall Plan, it seemed like they were trying.

― Tim Ellison, Monday, 19 April 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

My first alleigance will ALWAYS AND FOREVER be to Killing Joke, but as Tim asserts in the above post, the Fall are so mercurial that it's hard to pin them down. There are some Fall albums I wouldn't even make a dog listen to, and others that are veritably the shizzit (as those invarialby non-existatnt Mark E. Smith-respectin' b-boys uptown might exclaim, whilst needlessly gesticulating in their needlessly baggy sweatpants).

Killing Joke, while they futzed around with different styles, have always remained pretty focused (certainly in a lyrical capacity at the very least), whereas the Fall are splayed across the board in every sense (although they're certainly never guilty of being too peppy or optimistic or anything like that). I'd have to guess that Jaz & Co. have a great amount of respect for the Fall (although I certainly doubt it's mutual).

Still, KILLING JOKE UBER ALLES!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm so sorry, but...

Hahaha you know what I can't remember the last time I put either record on. But I do remember liking them. The single on the Wild Dub comp is reall good ("Turn to Red", yes??) but I don't think that's on the first album, is it? Is "Fall of Because" on the second record? I think I just remember the name of that song cuz of the Justin Broadrick band. Okay I will go home tonite and grab them to listen to at work tomorrow and answer this question.
-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...), April 19th, 2004 9:34 PM.

Never got your answer Alex. I'm just curious

― Aja (aja), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, I got distracted by the 4CD Best of Jungle boxed set (and in a lesser way by the 4CD Comsat Angels boxed set) I got this weekend. I will remember to listen and tell you soon.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Must try to concentrate and make a decision.

OK, The Fall.

No, Killing Joke.

No, The Fall.

Hang on a minute.... what was that about a 4CD Comsat Angels boxed set?!?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Andy K mentioned something about it, but apparently it's a bootleg.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

the Fall represents the very peak of human creative output ETC!!

― Aaron A., Wednesday, 21 April 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

There's something really funny and ironic about Nate trying to bait people. Makes you wanna revive about 50 threads where he squirms on the hook.

And I'll go with the Fall just cuz I don't feel any need to own any Killing Joke full-lengths (I used to have the debut) and even after my recent record collection shrinkage I've still got 15+ of the Fall's.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't feel any need to own any Killing Joke full-lengths

Yet you buy albums by Limp Bizkit and Good Charlotte. You're sick, Anthony, sick.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

There's something really funny and ironic about Nate trying to bait people. Makes you wanna revive about 50 threads where he squirms on the hook.

Y'all motherfuckers made me; quit crying

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, Nate, you know that's not "crying."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

And to be fair, there's only two Limp Bizkit albums and one Good Charlotte album I'd take over Killing Joke's debut. And I might snap up a KJ best-of one of these days.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Well if it ain't crying, then it's being a schmuck. I apologize for overstepping my "Nate must never make outlandish statements" boundaries, but I got the right to act as obnoxious and opinionated as everyone else here.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I just find it ironic when you call people defensive crybabies. That's all.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I just find it ironic when you call people out on "baiting". That's not all.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I find this little paper mache statue of Mark E Smith iconic.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I just made it too.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

ooh pic please!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I haf no digital camera. :(

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus the spittle holding the little pieces of napkin together isn't doing its job.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

haha!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and I can't go entirely WITHOUT Killing Joke. I'm definitely burning "Wardance," "Requiem" and two or three more tracks before selling the album (or giving it to a friend). I just think overall it's kind of samey and I'm only letting myself keep 25 albums released each year.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 April 2004 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you should pick up a Fall album Nate...you might like it. I avoided them for years, then recently I've become a convert.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd personally recommend Hex Enduction Hour. Not that you want my personal recommendation.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost to myself:

haha I sound like one of those wierd people that go to a "hip" "open-mindend" church and ask people at work to go to our Wednesday night "Worship and Encounter" session...

"Yeah, Nate, I know alot of young people like you think that Jesus can be a drag, but we have a really cool preacher who's totally down to Earth, man...I think you'd really dig it. We have a band that plays Christian rock music and on Thursday's we go play pool in the rec room...It's a really fun scene."

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

but check out Our Nation's Saving Grace - it's awesome (like Jesus!!!)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark E. Flanders

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

(TS: -iddly vs. -ah)

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)
actually, yeah ONSG would probably be more your speed, Nate. Good call, Matt.

(non x-post)
wow, that really proves you've read a Fall review, there. Almost implies you've heard an album.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate you might like Extricate too...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate you might like the Inspiral Carpets song he guested on.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:21 (twenty-two years ago)

haha

NATE PLEASE LIKE THE FALL - I'M BEGGING YOU!!!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

And I might snap up a KJ best-of one of these days.

You haven't earned it.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that what "You Just Haven't Earned it Yet Baby" by the Smiths is about?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I am sorely sorely tempted to DL the five most pivotal Fall records and spending a thread for each one attempting to come to terms with it.

Miccio, quit being such a fartswallower.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 22 April 2004 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

the fartswallower is a beautiful bird...i spotted one last year walking in a state park...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but their calls are not very melodious

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 22 April 2004 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

true...it's Geir Hongro's favorite species of bird!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

oops i mean the opposite! damn...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 22 April 2004 04:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I've JUST started to REALLY LISTEN to Extremities, Dirt, & Various Repressed Emotions. (Actually, it's more like the first six songs) I love it (the six songs) so much now! I'm mostly impressed by "Inside the Termite Mound." I never would listen to it and just thought it was going to be something that wouldn't hold my intrest. I was so wrong. It's my second, if not my first, favorite song on there now.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I never would listen to it and just thought it was going to be something that wouldn't hold my intrest.

What gave you the impression that you wouldn't like it? The title?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah. And the first five seconds. Hold on a minute. I think I need to listen to it.

GOD!!! I love that song!!

Haha. I was humming "Money is Not Our God" in Social Studies class today. The girl sitting next to me looked at me funny. I was hoping she wouldn't ask what I was humming.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I still don't understand how "Inside the Termite Mound" keeps my attention. I usually can't listen to a whole song that is more than five minutes, and this is more than eight! What is with this? Actually, you could apply that question to all my favorites on Extremities

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

"...Termite Mound" isn't my favorite track on that album, honestly. I much prefer the title track, "Age of Greed" and "Money is Not Our God".Â¡

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah. I like those a lot too.

I like them A WHOLE LOT more now that I've read the lyrics. I love the part in "Age of Greed" "But most of all there is too much fat on your heart - Pig"

I've always felt this way about stuck up rich people. I go to a poor Catholic school.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, Alex, I wanted to ask you, who do you like more? Big Paul or Martin Atkins?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not going to even DIGNIFY that question with a response e

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Why? Is it Big Paul?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

If you have to ask.........

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Ferguson? Do I have to have his last name? What if I say Paul Ferguson? Come on! Gimme an answer!

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Now funnily enough I finally picked up a copy of Unperverted Pantomime used tonight.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 April 2004 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Good for you.

You like it??

Funnily enough, when I bought that, someone at the store, who my mom used to work with, asked what I had bought. He complemented me on my selection.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the radio session of Change on Unperverted Pantomime. Love that painting on the back, too.

― bimble (bimble), Saturday, 24 April 2004 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I like "Are You Recieving" and the demo version of "The Wait" the most. But "Change" is great.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

The Fall because little Mark E. Smith is probably a bigger asshole than Jaz though not by much.

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Why would that make you choose the Fall?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Why would that make you choose the Fall?

Why is the moon made of cheese?

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not. It's like a huge rock in space. No cheese! That Wallace and Gromit video is so wrong!!

OMG.

Pixies! "Gigantic"

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Pixies! "Gigantic"
Surfer Rosa!

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah.

Double yeah for their cover of the J+MC song HEAD ON.

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah. When I heard the original, I got confused because I thought it was a Pixies song!

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah. When I heard the original, I got confused because I thought it was a Pixies song!
In my younger days J+MC, Spacemen 3 and the Pixies were high on my list of noise driven pop... more so than Sonic Youth. I still like listening to them once in a while, especially when riding trains and boats at level 30 through my overpriced SONY earclips which look a little goofy because they are SHOCK ORANGE and silver.

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Dad?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah... it is 1:30AM in Perth right now.

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are you awake then?

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I am working right now. I have a patient on the ward and we are expecting some intoxicatde people to show up soon. I hope to be in bed in a few hours but will be up early so I can enjoy a few days off in Perth. It is very much like San Diego. I was downtown in Northbridge on Thursday and Friday. Okay but not great.

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Alright.

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Ciao

― Pinche Pendejo (Pinche Pendejo), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Bye - bye

― Aja (aja), Saturday, 24 April 2004 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.