Franz Ferdinand in the Guardian today

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

The only British band to actually be worth a toss these days (outside of their superiors The Libertines - surely the best band in the whole world since, ooooh, maybe Suede?) have edited G2 today. Not a bad job, although the nude pics aren't very sexy are they? Thought they might have used a Playmate or something if they wanted to show someone nekkid.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The only British band to actually be worth a toss these days (outside of their superiors The Libertines)

CRW in OTM shokka

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Where?

― John Cei Douglas (John Cei Douglas), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Dadaismus in "disagreeing with CRW and, apres le G2, thinking Franz Ferdinand are a bunch of dicks" shockahhhhhhhh!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

hey mark,

didja check out the libertines thing i did? what did you thinK?

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought it was great.

Write the full length book version.

(I said this already and you know it)

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously, though, a lot of stuff written about them comes over as Wishful Thinking on the writer's part ("they take more drugs than anyone ever ever" repeated ad nauseum. Come on, what makes them do what they do? And all the things they do and don't do? )

Nothing comes close to putting you in there. So far anyway.

Is there more to come?

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Doomie, do you know "Love me do - The Beatles Progress" by Michael Braun (Penguin) ?

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

cheers, mark, that meant alot. as for the book? when the band is dead, then yes, the whole story is helluvalotmoreinteresting! ! !

there should be alot more where that came from. i will link you up when it happens.

: - D

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i've not actually read any music books at all or much journalism. but will check it out.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the libertines are dull but i'd like to read doomie's work... mail me at [email protected], not the above address if you wanna unmask yrself

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 19 April 2004 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

my friend read it and felt like he was there. which is what i wanted to do -- he also said it was very human..! not hype. like you could easily project yrself into that situation through reading the article.

i'll send it on tonight, dave. the uncut version is on the web. spelling and grammar errors, delight!

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Exactly like the Braun book. Its based around the time they did the Command performance.
Paraphrased excerpt:

"So it's a different audience to what you're used to, how will you get them involved?"
Len: "Oh, I'll just get them to rattle their fuckin jewelry"

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

that's what i'm trying to do... something more personalised and as it happened. my brother-in-law told me that i remind him of jon savage with personalised accounts of what happened, as it happened.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i may regret this but for anyone that wants to read it -- its on the poptones page. news/'beautiful losers'

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

"The only British band to actually be worth a toss these days (outside of their superiors The Libertines)"

"CRW in OTM shokka"

Mark Grout in lost-the-plot shockah!

I know things aren't good but there are a lot better British bands kicking about than either of those two!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

go on then...

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Your daughters could name one, Mark!

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

the libertines are ... live ... new songs ... wow. dare you to name a british band who is better and bigger.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

tell me about it, kate...
Yeah, they are fine, I approve and all that.
I buy them as proxy.
(I heared Lola the other day, impressed in an "it sounds exactly like the Kinks, but in a good way" way)

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

.. but you aint lived till you've heared Alice's version of "Don't look back into the sun" !

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"Better" is a subjective term, and one we could debate all day. Franz Ferdinand, I can just about see what the appeal is, but The Libertines utterly mystify me.

But "bigger" - do the words "Best selling band since Coldplay" actually mean anything?

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

kate, yr in a mood so i'm stepping out, as per usual.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Whoops, "Best selling BRITISH band since Coldplay".

I'm actually not in a mood at all, I'm trying to discuss something with Mark.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

uh huh.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

"go on then... "

OK, off the top of my head, I'm prepared to bet 7 shiny new pence each that the following British bands' next albums will be better than anything Franz Ferdinand or The Libertines have released:

British Sea Power
Buzzcocks
Caramel Jack
Chumbawamba
Clearlake
Clientele
The Clinic
The Coral
The Cure
The Damned
Elbow
Electric Soft Parade
The Fall
Gorky’s Zygotic Mynci
Kaito
Killing Joke
Marlowe
Mull Historical Society
Penetration
PJ Harvey
Prefab Sprout
Radiohead
Shack
Super Furry Animals
Tindersticks
Wire
XTC

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

you've proved my point, libertines, wow, like-need and such.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, I'm not down on Busted by any means. It takes big cojonas to take on Teenage Kicks. Just, for me, Franz Ferd are more my listening (I am rapidly cooling off of them, it hastobesed)

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

""Better" is a subjective term, and one we could debate all day."

I foresaw this potential problem and have managed to avoid it by appointing myself as the ultimate arbiter.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

OK the list.

10% I don't know
30% old bands still going, half them I doubt, half them I give you.
55% the last album may have been OK, but the idea of being greater than the Libs next is a fighting chance rather than a given.

.. and PJ harvey is capable of ANYTHING!

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Busted sell more singles, per singles on average, than The Libertines have sold albums in their entire career.

That *does* make them bigger. Better - that's taste and there is no accounting for taste. But there is accounting for accounting, and the accounting says Busted.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

The Libertines are just bog standard indie chancers, seen it all before, heard it all before.

― chris (chris), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

busted are pop. the libertines are rock.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

not to say that I don't like the Libertines, they are .....ok

― chris (chris), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

and my kids dance to both without prejudice. (xpost)

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

world eases back on axis.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Have you ever seen Busted live, Doomie? Don't tell me they're not rock until you've seen them.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i have seen busted. i declare them pop.

― doomie x, Monday, 19 April 2004 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I declare them bubblepunk. Which is both pop and rock and defies silly journalistic catagorisations.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

and silly journalists

― chris (chris), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Taking Sides : Rock Vs Pop

C'mon. it's not 1973 yer know...

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

They play guitars and they have distortion pedals = they are rock.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

".... that's taste and there is no accounting for taste. But there is accounting for accounting, and the accounting says Busted."

Are there any other accountants here? Good, thought not.

In that case I'm discounting Busted heavily because I believe they are extremely heavily geared with high dependency on goodwill and a very small tangible asset base and are likely to have an extremely short useful life at the end of which their value is likely to crash suddenly and without warning leaving only an extremely small residual value and consequently they need to be depreciated over an extremely short period.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Chumbawamba?

CHUMBAWAMBA?

P.S. And The Coral are rubbish.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Translation: I don't think anyone will give a toss about Busted in 18 month's time.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Some stock mature long-term, some escalate phenomenally in a short period, and getting in and getting out is the key to the profit-maximisation.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Translation: this is music. It's all about instant gratification. Who cares if *any* band has a career in 18 months if the song hits you RIGHT NOW right where it needs to be hit.

Do you think Franz Ferdinand will really have another hit, or are they headed for one-hit wonder land? Does it matter? Does it make the song any greater or any less?

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Matinee will be a hit cos it's so utterly, utterly fab it knocks you for six. I heard it in a record store and was virtually salivating at buying the album of whomever created such a work of genius. "Franz Ferdinand" my friend told me. "Woowee" said I, knowing only of 'the next big thing' label.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

"Chumbawamba?
CHUMBAWAMBA?"

Yes, Chumbawamba.

How many of the ten studio albums they've recorded and released over the last 20 years are you familiar with?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Chumbawamba records sometimes feature the most amazing harmonies, they're one of my guilty pleasures

― chris (chris), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Franz Ferdinand are having another hit on Sunday.

Their edition of G2 was more or less what you'd expect, in a slightly dull manner. Bit pissed off I binned it before reading the Magnus Mills short story, though.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

And as for Chumbawamba - 'Revolution'. Fuck me but that's brilliant.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"I get knawked down and I get up again"

"Pictures of Starving Children Sell Records"

Throwing water over John Prescott.

"We're anarchists" etc

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The new Chumbawamba album is out next monday if anyone's interested.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Franz Ferdinand are having another hit on Sunday.

Another hit? Are you sure? They haven't made the saturation level necessary in order to have a hit. Sure, they may be editing the Guardian instead of being on TOTP or having their songs played on the radio, but Guardian readers don't buy pop singles.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

The stuff that's out this week, they don't need no saturation level. Except they've already done CD:UK and TOTP with this single, and they're A-listed on Radio 1, and were on the cover of the NME two or three weeks ago. It's almost certainly going in the top 10.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

When were they on TOTP and CD:UK? I missed both, and that's strange.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

CD:UK this Saturday just gone, and TOTP... actually, that might not have been a performance, but they had a wee featurette about them a couple of weeks ago.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I watched that CD:UK, and I didn't see them! TOTP... weeks ago! The singles charts have a VERY short attention span!

I say this because I've not knowingly heard the new single yet, and I've realised that the level of exposure required to get something in the charts is about equal to the amount of push to actually get something into my line of hearing.

That said, I'd just like something, anything, really, to knock McFly off the top spot...

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Pardon me, I just crawled out from under a rock. What do these bands sound like?

― 57 7th (calstars), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Franz Ferdinand sound like an army of happily drunk C86-style indie kids jumping up and down in unison wearing big shoes.

The Libertines sound like someone is playing a Clash record down the hall, but you can't really hear because of traffic noise and the neighbours shouting and a cat in heat outside your window.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Kate absolutely OTM!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Franz sound like someone singing Smiths lyrics with a deeper voice and a Strokes-like guitar sound.

The Libertines sound like the sort of music you always wished existed two or three years ago when Coldplay, Stereophonics and Travis had turned guitar music into a bastion for boring, false, middle class moaners.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Looking at those two reviews side by side makes me realise something very important about the nature of music criticism/description...

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Yup. You're not as good as me are you? Nice of you to admit it though.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, that took you long enough. *starts the countdown for everything else*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

kate's description of the libertines is one of the most accurate i've read, of any band.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Except mine.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

anything you say, precious.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm trying to think how to say this without responding to the childish twittering.

You can't describe music. The best you can hope to do is describe the emotional resonance or association it creates in your head by describing an event or activity, in the hopes that the reader (or person you're describing the band to) will have the same association and resonance. It should therefore be something that the reader has experienced, or could imagine or understand.

Some people try to describe music in terms which have no connection outside of anything other than what is in their own heads, and their own preconceived notions of "music" and make no attempt to describe those associations in a way which others could connect with.

I'm not explaining this very well. I need to think about it.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Franz Ferdinand suck, bring back Green Day.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

You do don't you?

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post amidst CRW's self agrandising bickering)

And you can't describe not being able to describe music really, can you Kate?!

― ___ (___), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

It's about the assumptions that are made about the reader's experience.

Yes, I assume that the reader knows what The Clash sound like, and have experienced the "joys" of city apartment living.

But it doesn't make any value-judgements about those experiences. To someone who idolises the Clash and fetishises the city-living experience, that might well sound like a GRATE review.

But CRW's "review" assumes that his readers not only share his hatred of a poorly defined genre of music, but drew the same class-based assumptions about it, and wish for the same goals in reaction to this music (which he never really explains particularly clearly).

Too many assumptions about the tastes of the reader, and too many value judgements for the reader to disagree with.

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh oh I agree. You so clever me so dumb.

Alternately, you could say you put valuable thought and time into this message board and I don't.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

You are such a twat, C-Man.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Only sometimes.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

And who is C-Man?

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

BWAH HAH HAH HAH HA. I was waiting for that.

Does this refresh your memory:

http://www.filthythemovie.com/images/SFLA_andy_calum.jpg

― Super-Kate (kate), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't think someone of your wit would be that predictable Kate. I expected a bit more invention.

P.S. I liked your descriptions as well, but you've failed me now. I used to think you were nice but now I don't.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Nigelesque

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The Franz Ferdinand ape The Strokes to an extent wouldn't you say?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes.

P.S. There's a better pic than that kicking about online somewhere. I'll see if I can find it (it's well hidden) and maybe that'll give the stalkers something better to play with.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you the fat one or the skinny one? Who's the other one?

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

could be the fly buzzing around the two guys

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Even after the rest of the thread I'm still giggling at Kate's Libertines description.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.filthythemovie.com/images/SFLA_andy_calum.jpg

"Daniel-San! Wash the floor! Clean the car! Paint the fence! Make the shitty internet forum post!"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't get it.

― CRW (CRW), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.classicmoviekids.com/images/m/macchio/macchioralph303hopt.jpg

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.mats2go.com/images/Large/08-03-2.jpg

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Macchio is way too pretty.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Monday, 19 April 2004 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Kate, we don't agree on very much, but that description of the Libertines was bang on.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 07:49 (twenty-two years ago)

doomie, apologies if someone put the link up somewhere and i scrolled past it but where can i read your piece on the libertines? i love the band and would love to read it.

― thesplooge (thesplooge), Saturday, 1 May 2004 11:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I heard FF's music last night and I really did not like it very much. It seemed to lack grace and light.

― the bellefox, Saturday, 1 May 2004 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

its on poptones.co.uk -- click on news and then beautiful losers.

― doomie x, Tuesday, 4 May 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.