Writing a term paper on Mix tapes and CDs

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I'm writing my final paper on mixes-- why we make them, how we go about making them, all the rules we have for them, etc. I want to hear some stories about mixes people have made and received-- the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have written out interview questions-- e-mail me if you'd be willing to answer some questions about your own mix experiences.
But for this thread I want to know about mix rules--what is and is not acceptable. Adm Michel started a thread on this [The Art of the Mix), but I need to see some lists and hear some passionate outcries on the non-negotiables.

― rebecca s, Monday, 19 April 2004 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

this is a topic for a term paper? in what class?

no wonder the indians and chinese are going to own us in a few years.

― frankE, Monday, 19 April 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

nyu, huh?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 April 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

You should go to artofthemix.com, rebecca.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 19 April 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

to the archives! in particular, The official CDR Go! thread

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 19 April 2004 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

your dad must be happy to send the check off every semester.

― keith m (keithmcl), Monday, 19 April 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

There sure seems to be a lot of the pot calling the kettle black on this thread.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

after all, it's not like anyone on ILM has ever given any thought to this matter or anything

― Sym (shmuel), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Or written final papers on meaningless subjects in college either. Naw. Not us.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

certainly not i (as i continue procastinating on my essay about bourgeois bohemians)

― Sym (shmuel), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Honestly, I don't follow any rules and I'm embarrassed for the people who do.

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Disco played a major part in my Berkeley undergrad thesis. Go Rebecca S! Don't listen to cultural studies haterz.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 19 April 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

one good thing about MP3 players is that it destroys the notion of the "perfect mix" once and for all

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 19 April 2004 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

alright, the value of my education aside (but thank you to those who defended it), can I get some rules here?

― rebecca s, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

1) Don't chew gum in lectures.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Man, my last ever essay was about internet messageboards and it got a first. Eat me.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

have you read white noise Nick?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Nope.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

beats me how you got a first then :-P

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

ehehehehehe...

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are you people giving Rebecca when it's her professor that is Eric Stoltz?

On the real, I think it's a good topic. Talk about the stress, the moment of panic when you realize a crushtape is no longer takebackable, stuff like that. I don't believe in mix rules but I don't ever make mixes with a pop song after an arty song after a rap song after an indie song, etc, because my friends HATE that shit and honestly I've never made a mix like that that I could jam in my car straight through because I don't like my gangster image crossing over with my pussy image that spastically. I usually just go slower and more organic into faster and more synthetic.

― LC, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

i only listen to entire albums sos i can best decipher what the arteeest is try'n ta say.

except with hiphop of course.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

actually scratch that i am extremely dr*nk and i wish rebecca the best of luck.

i have no rules for my mix tapes i just build them as a kind of organic entity with referalls/refer-ences from song to song coming from any number of levels of reading.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

o i guess thats a rule then: some realtion between the songs as they pass from one to the other. except the relation can be some smart ass drunken gag i just thought of.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

god some people here are so fucking arrogant sometimes. rebecca's someone's asked a perfectly reasonable question, asked *you* gusy for help because she thought *you* might be knowledgeable or decent enough human beings to help, but no all the poor girl gets for 20-odd posts is beef. real nice touch, beautiful, go pat yourselves on the back, well done.
re mixtapes, i primarily make them for myself or for girls - if a crushy one the golden rule is start slow, reach a plateau and then end on something old and poignant.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

thanks dave. i may be drunk but please don't diss me like that again.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

wan't actually referring to you, rather the posts right at the start.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Nice to have you back, Dave.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

indeed. one of my fave contributors...though a bit touchy?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Only cos he's run out of pepper or couscous.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

haha whatever???

my mixtapes always seem unutterably shit in retrospect.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i've just eaten a ton of jerk chicken so i would probably start any mixtape i was about to do with foot of the mountain by dennis brown. couscous is gyal food!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

o dave *swoooooon*

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

By now, the only mixtapes I make are subjective attempts to reflect the "now", designed to be discovered in an old cupboard in 15 years time and listened to nostalgically to remember what it was like to live in 1994 or something like that..

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Baaderoni and LC, could you give me first names so I can quote you? Thanks.

― rebecca s, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Sure, it's Fabrice.

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave - my suggestion to look at artofthemix.com was supposed to be helpful. There's loads of writing there about making compilations, plus more lists than you could shake a stick at. What was wrong with that?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, I think it's all embarrassing awfulness, but hey.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

For fuck's sake, a college paper on fucking mix tapes!?

I quit uni 'cause I was disgusted at lectures and tutorials about mobile telephones and 'Big Brother', but now I see I was in some sort of advanced thinking group.

― Sasha (sgh), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

No one spoke in my favor when I got all those derisive responses in my question. THANKS FOR NOTHING.

― a d adam (adam michel), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

nothing nick but yours was not the norm. judgemental bunch of wankers! i ended up writing a shitload on detroit techno in my degree dissertation and now i write about all sorts of music no one gives a toss about for money - how useful to society am i? anyone want to tell me to get a proper job? plus, this is someone i've not seen on the list before. nice welcoming attitude, isn't it? this forum is one hell of an arsehole magnet and it's generally the people who don't do anyone any harm who bear the brunt of it.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 08:30 (twenty-two years ago)

If I make a CD these days I tend to do it with MP3 files rather than 'music' as it were, thus it doens't really matter what order they go in (as files get jumbled automatically into alphabetical or whatever depending what you use to read/play them or whatever), plus as you get to put 100+ songs on it makes you less picky. I'm less likely to try and make a 70-80 minute CD or MD full of meaningful or themed tunes than I am a 700mg CDR of songs I like with little discrimination.

Time and volume.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 08:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, do you include accompanying artwork for mixes?

― rebecca s, Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Never used to, but in the CD age, if I bother to make a music CD as opposed to an MP3 one, then it's probably as a special gift so I'll use one of my own photographs for the cover and make a proper jewel case sleeve for it.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, if it's a special one, for a birthday or whatever. nothing fancy, just some nice paper, nice picture etc.

OK, my take on mixes is that even if they're for someone you don't need to impress, you try and impress anyway, because other people might see them too. I made one for a girl-friend's birthday, knowing that she'd like it as long as it was, y'know, 'good', but I also knew that her boyfriend was a huge muso, so to be honest I was thinking of him too when I made it.
Also, I made one for an ex-boyfriend's birthday and put so much thought into it, as if to say (a) look what you're missing, leaving a woman who really knows about music, and (b) look how much I still care/know about you, I chose all these obscure yet right in -the-moment songs.
I don't think the bastard ever listened to it.
What about 'sampler' or 'primer' cds? do they count? like when someone says oh I've never really listened to Nurse With Wound, I don't know where to start, and then you make them the essential mix. I've learnt about some really good music this way, incl. UK Garage and the Residents.

― morgen, Thursday, 22 April 2004 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Why: to impress others with my musical taste/knowledge (relative of course since on ILM I'm basically a neophyte), and to declare romantic intentions in indie rock form.

How: audio CDs only, usually hovering within generic (read: genre) atmosphere, whittling down possibles before compiling into a workable playlist, then determine orders by how they "flow into one another."

Rules: one artist per (for to show breadth of knowledge).

Artwork: No, because I like the underground feel of making and sharing it, that it's this illicit act in which I authorize and synthesize a new piece from preexisting constituent parts.

― SLeeeter Kinney (Leee), Thursday, 22 April 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait. I feel as if an entire technological innovation has passed me by. You can make CDs of mp3s and get over 100 songs on them? How? Eh?

Re: compilations - I actually find I have less inclination to make CD compilations than I used to for old-fashioned cassettes, even though it's quicker and the end product sounds better. I suppose it's because I'm not listening to it as I make it and therefore can't make last-minute adjustments. No rules though, unless it's a theme compilation, though sonically the songs should sound 'right' next to each other.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 22 April 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

alex: mp3's of songs are usually 3-6 meg. a cdr holds 700 meg. you need something that will play mp3s to listen to them ( a walkman, a computer, a dvd player...)

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 22 April 2004 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

What, a normal CDR? The CDRs I burn mp3s on to only hold the normal 80 mins worth of music. Hmm.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 22 April 2004 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

This is really not facetious at all: can I have a copy of said paper? – would be very interested that’s all. Shit even that sounds ironic. No irony, I would really like to read it. I’m digging a deeper and increasingly less necessary hole for my self I shall stop. I would like to have a read.

― myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Thursday, 22 April 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

during the burning phase you are probably converting them to audio files. you need to select Create a data cd, not an audio one!

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 22 April 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh! I will test that out next time I burn something. How do people KNOW these things? Am I just destined to be a Luddite forever? Thanks btw.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 22 April 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd be interested in reading that too. You need a special player to play MP3 CDs, like my spanky new walkman, but the benefits are obvious (you can't really argue with 8 albums to a disc, can you?) The only downside of this, of course, is that because these things are relatively new, you can't really play them on your friends' hi-fis.

Is it not the case that CD-Rs are killing the mixtape off? I used to spend hours with a pile of CDs and a piece of paper trying to work it all out, and doing the maths, operating my cassette recorder and the the like, but it's so unlikely i'm going to bother with that when I can line up a dozen songs in nero and have it do the sums for me. I don't think I even have a tape recorder now...

― scotstvo (scotstvo), Thursday, 22 April 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think CD-Rs are killing off the mix tape. I like CD-R mixes because they force you to be even choosier...But I do think mp3 players and playlists are a terrible stand-in for a mix. A playlist isn't a tangible object, it can't really be a gift, and it's so temporary-- you lose the time-capsule sense. At least that's how I feel-- thoughts on this?

― rebecca s, Friday, 23 April 2004 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed. However, I LOVE putting 5CD's on random play, or 1000 files into winamp and letting the machine roll the dice for me. But a mix isn't a random selection of tracks -- there's a big difference.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 23 April 2004 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I like making tapes more than CD because I force myself to have each side come to a conclusion, rather than just one for a CD. Also it's challenging to come as close to 45 (or whatever) minutes as possible.

― Sasha (sgh), Friday, 23 April 2004 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

One more: what was the best or worst mix you've ever made or received? Or any mix related experience, for that matter. Tell your story here. Like Morgen did ("I don't think the bastard ever listened to it"). Or e-mail it to me.

― rebecca s (rebecca S), Monday, 3 May 2004 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

click here to see the tracklists for two mixes i made for a girl for her upcoming vacation. how did i do?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, it is interesting the way people clamour over the "Check out these mixes/CD-R's I made, what do you all think?" threads. Almost without fail. It's one of the surest ways on ILM to start a thread that will reach 50-100 posts within 24 hours.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 3 May 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ok. THE LAST ONE, REALLY. anyone have any stories about being judged by their mixes, or deciding whether or not someone else is a good egg based on his mix?

― rebecca s (rebecca S), Saturday, 8 May 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Every "Check out these mixes/CD-R I made" thread on ILM to thread.
For me personally, I don't know if I've been judged by a mix, but I certainly hope I have been.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 8 May 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I've had someone else's minidisc for about a month now, and all that time I've been planning to write summat about how weird it is (it was handed to me as 'lost property' in the library, because it's 'technical' and I'm the 'technical guy' omg lol wtf) to have someone else's mix when you don't know them at all.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Saturday, 8 May 2004 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

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