"I am writing because I remember you expressing certain opinions about solos in music during one conversation years ago. I was thinking about the subject today . . . I wanted to ask what you think about the following questions, just to bring ideas up for discussion. I don't necessarily have a firm opinion on any of this:
First, are you still opposed to solos as a general rule?
I remember that you expressed your distaste for solos because you thought it seems like a song is being interrupted and one musician is showing himself or herself off over top of the group. Do you still have this opinion? Do you think it's a purely aesthetic thing? Or do you think there are also social/political/ethical issues at play here - e.g. that this type of musical organization seems to be modeled on a hierarchical (?) type of individualism where a person can only express himself in opposition to the group and must make himself more prominent than others.
If so, what types of structures do you think are more appropriate/progressive?
Are you familiar with Ornette Coleman's 'harmolodic' music with Prime Time in the 70s where he tried to set up a type of 'free funk' where everyone could sort of solo at the same time and it would still feel coherent and even danceable? What do you think of this?
If solos are problematic for this reason, do you also think there are problems, for example, with traditional classical music where performers not only play parts determined by the will of a composer but are also directed by a conductor at the front of the group?
Where does the audience come into all this? If all the performers should be incorporated into the music in an egalitarian way, does it also follow that maybe the audience should also be incorporated (as more than observers/consumers)? If so, how do you think this can be achieved? Does physical participation in the form of dance accomplish this? Should the audience be incorporated into the creation of the music itself?
Is there a similar problem with pop music where the singer's voice dominates the music, where the musicians function primarily as accompaniment for the singer?
Does it make a difference what the soloist is playing? Is there a difference in this regard between a one-note-drowned-in-feedback Neil Young solo and a virtuosic, melodic, climax-oriented solo by, say, Pat Metheny or John McLaughlin (or in a rock context, I dunno, Alex Lifeson or maybe Jimmy Page on "Stairway to Heaven")?
From my thesis journal notes for today:
I started thinking about ideas for a piece for . . . (who had asked me Friday night to write a piece for him). He seemed interested to do a ‘concerto’-type piece, with solo soprano sax against a string quartet or cello trio. I was thinking about it today. I don’t know if I’m comfortable with that idea, maybe because it goes against what I’m used to writing but maybe also because I don’t know if I’m comfortable with the construction of individuality that it appears to represent. It seems to suggest a sort of hierarchy, with one performer asserting himself or herself over the group. As well, it seems to perhaps be more aesthetically interesting to incorporate the other musicians into the fabric of the piece. This does not necessarily require performers to play fully notated and controlled parts (under the ‘authority’ of the composer). As Ornette Coleman’s harmolodic music demonstrates, it is possible to have all performers improvise as part of a coherent whole. Ringing was also an effort to approach music in this way. This all reminds me of a conversation I had with (childhood friend and [band name] guitarist) [his name] about solos in rock music. He said that he hates solos for just this reason – that they sound like a song is being interrupted for one performer to display himself or herself. “Why can’t you work the other instruments into it?” he asked. "
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)
― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 22 April 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)
― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 22 April 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)
― sexyDancer, Thursday, 22 April 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)
― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Thursday, 22 April 2004 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)
― David Wesley, Friday, 23 April 2004 09:04 (twenty-two years ago)
The notion that solos set one in opposition to the group doesn't always hold up. Lots of times it seems like the soloist is being propelled, supported, egged on by the group. For a very bare example (which may be problematic for other reasons, but...), think Coltrane's Interstellar Space. Even in stadium metal, where the division between backing section and solo is much clearer and more rigid, the support structure is there. In this case, it's more like a group of friends all rallying hard for you to get laid -- letting you have the spotlight, but doing their jobs steadfastly and well to make sure you get to make magic tonight. Know what I mean?
― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Friday, 23 April 2004 11:26 (twenty-two years ago)
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 23 April 2004 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)
Lots of times it seems like the soloist is being propelled, supported, egged on by the group. For a very bare example (which may be problematic for other reasons, but...), think Coltrane's Interstellar Space. Even in stadium metal, where the division between backing section and solo is much clearer and more rigid, the support structure is there. In this case, it's more like a group of friends all rallying hard for you to get laid -- letting you have the spotlight, but doing their jobs steadfastly and well to make sure you get to make magic tonight. Know what I mean?
Does this still imply a type of hierarchy, if not an opposition? Is this a problem?
Interstellar Space is just a duo between Coltrane and Ali, right? I don't even know that one of them is more prominent on that.
Dan, that was one of the questions I was interested in. I asked it in the original post.
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 April 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)
Pieces with improv solos or solo breaks are somewhat different, although one could argue that their function is as much an opportunity to let "the backing musicians" have a modicum of rest as it is to allow the soloing instrument an opportunity to show off.
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 April 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 23 April 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)
I think that's the crux of it and why I chose the words "coherent melody".
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 April 2004 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)
Whereas I guess what you're saying is that sometimes it's important and/or natural for one person to be the 'hero' and it's cool for everyone else to be helping him out. And it's good that music can sometimes reflect this. So maybe what's more important is just that there's all these different narratives available. And maybe the problem, if there is one, is that perhaps one type of narrative is still dominant.
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)
But even this is probably changing, given the advances in pop music. Which starts to make adaml's question seem very relevant. . .
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 24 April 2004 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Sunday, 25 April 2004 05:16 (twenty-two years ago)
My favorite keyboard parts!.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 23 June 2021 13:47 (four years ago)
Some great choices, and, as you suggest, it is not always clear what the difference is between the song and the keyboard part."Over You" is my least-favourite Roxy single, although the echoey coda is the best part. I might choose the coda of "For Your Pleasure" or the main piano line of "She Sells" as my Roxy picks.
I wonder what conclusions sund4r has come to about his original question 17 years ago. To me, the paradox of an instrumental solo is that it can also provide a moment for other instruments to shine.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 23 June 2021 15:37 (four years ago)