was there a thread on the spelman college nelly thing?

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THE topic of discussion on atlanta pop and hip-hop radio right now. anyhows in case you don't know (credit ajc):

Spelman women dis sex-laden rap videos
Protestors hit at raunchy degradation

By GRACIE BONDS STAPLES, VIKKI CONWELL
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/20/04

The bone marrow drive was just weeks away. Asha Jennings was excited at the prospect of Spelman College teaming with 4Sho4Kids — a foundation started by rapper Nelly — to bring attention to an important cause.

For months, the 21-year-old had been organizing the marrow drive. She and her friends were talking about it in Decatur early on the morning of March 15.

The conversation eventually turned to music videos — one in particular.

"What's 'Tip Drill?' " Jennings asked.

"A bunch of strippers shaking their butts,'' she was told.

"Who's the artist?''

"Your boy, Nelly,'' came the answer.

It was Jennings' first step into an issue that has sparked several protests at her school — one is scheduled today — and has renewed discussion of the denigration of black women in music videos.

The women leading the fight are barely 20. Many had not been born when hip-hop emerged, but came of age listening to its music.

Later that morning in March, Jennings saw Nelly's "Tip Drill" for the first time. "I couldn't believe it,'' she recalled. "I just think of little girls watching it."

The music video features dozens of women in thong bikinis and dancing around a swimming pool, in hot tubs and a pool hall. One of the scenes includes a credit card swipe through a woman's buttocks.

Before that moment, Jennings had thought of Nelly more as the celebrity who had launched efforts to increase the number of African-American bone marrow donors — in part because his sister suffers from leukemia.

"Nelly wants us to help his sister," Jennings said, "but he's degrading hundreds of us."

Her friends tried to convince her to take the video for what it was — a way to make money. But just thinking about it made her cry.

"It was a moral issue for me,'' Jennings said. "My integrity was on the line.''

'Uncut' classic

The "Tip Drill" video, shot at various Atlanta locations, was released more than six months ago and has become a classic on BET's "Uncut," which airs at 3 a.m.

Harold Hardee, co-producer of "Tip Drill," said he was "a little" shocked when he saw the final product. "I don't have a cut-and-dry answer to how I feel," said Hardee, 28, but people need to realize the video "is not really reality."

The four-minute video took 12 hours and $80,000 to shoot. The women in the video were paid from $200 to $2,500, he said.

"They share in the blame as much as the artist," said Ryan Cameron, morning show host for Hot 107.9 FM and a hip-hop DJ since the early 90s. "If they say we want to swipe a credit card on your rear end, and all the young ladies say we're not going to do that, then they would cut that scene. If they say 'yes' . . . then they are both to blame."

The phrase "tip drill" is "a ghetto colloquialism for the proverbial ugly girl with a nice body," said Mark Anthony Neal, associate professor of American studies at the University of Texas at Austin.

In the context of the Nelly video, Neal said, such women are only good for one thing — sex — and crude sex at that.

A feminist's mission

Unknown to Jennings, "Tip Drill" had already driven another Spelman student to action. Moya Bailey, president of the Feminist Majority Leadership Alliance, said she stumbled across the music video during Christmas break. She was home in Fayetteville, Ark., talking with a friend on the telephone.

"Oh my God,'' Bailey said, noticing the women's buttocks swirling about. "Wow.''

The next morning over breakfast, she talked to her father about it. Carlton Bailey, a law professor at the University of Arkansas, had indeed seen the video.

"That's the problem with young people today,'' Bailey recalled her father's reaction.

Bailey returned to Spelman determined to deal with "Tip Drill." By February, the 20-year-old junior had gotten together a public forum: Are these women exploiting themselves? Is it Nelly's fault? Can women be sexual and have it not be negative?

There was no consensus among the 40 or so students from Spelman and Morehouse colleges that night — but it was a good discussion, Bailey said.

The student chapter of the NAACP led its own discussion days later. And two weeks afterward, there was a panel at Spelman attended by nearly 150 students.

On the morning of March 17, Bailey ran into Jennings, who had seen the music video for the first time two days earlier. "Moya, come look at this,'' Jennings said. "I've got a dilemma.''

Jennings showed Bailey fliers that advertised the upcoming bone marrow drive promoted by Nelly. Because of the "Tip Drill" video, Jennings told her fellow student she wasn't sure she should move forward.

"We were in agreement that he shouldn't be invited," Bailey said. "That we should draft a letter saying you're not welcome, but the foundation is.''

From that moment, Jennings, a political science major, and Bailey, a pre-med student, became a team.

There was one sticking point: Jennings had developed a good relationship with Nelly's 4Sho4Kids Foundation over the past months and was less willing to shun the star for pragmatic reasons.

Still, she couldn't excuse the artist's role in perpetuating misogynistic images.

With only days remaining before the charity drive, she called her parents, Rick and Cassandra Jennings, in Sacramento, Calif.

"Asha, it can't be that bad," her mother told her. "The cause is greater.''

Then, with her parents still on the other end of the phone, they watched the music video together.

Cassandra Jennings had two words for her daughter: "Cancel it.''

The day arrives

Before Jennings could follow through on her mother's advice, the foundation — which had been alerted that students planned to confront Nelly at the April 2 event — withdrew.

Chalena Mack, executive director of 4Sho4Kids, would not discuss Jennings' role in the unraveling of the bone marrow drive.

Nelly's publicist, Juliette Harris, declined to comment.

Jennings and Bailey decided to go forward with their protest, staging a rally to discuss hip-hop and what had been loosely labeled the "Nelly controversy."

Jennings wore a white sign bearing "Posted Private Property" in big block red letters. Every half-hour they showed "Tip Drill" on a video screen in the student center so people could see what was at issue. "This isn't all black people," Bailey said, "but these images go around the world, and this is how people view us who don't interact with us.''

News of the rally was played on local and national media. Jennings and Bailey have been interviewed by People magazine and contacted by "60 Minutes" and Essence, a popular African-American women's magazine.

Through it all, they have stuck to their core message: Stop buying and listening to music that exploits women.

The two students hope their stand has made a difference.

"Everyone calls it the 'Nelly controversy,' but this is bigger than Nelly,"Jennings said. "It's about empowering our sisters who think this is the only way to make it.

"We have to stop arguing that's the way it is and ask ourselves . . . how do we change it?"

cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 23 April 2004 06:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Harold Hardee, co-producer of "Tip Drill," said he was "a little" shocked when he saw the final product

well i'm glad it's not just me!!

vahid (vahid), Friday, 23 April 2004 07:05 (twenty-two years ago)

my reaction to this article is "good for them, this is great".

but also at the same time i think there's a bit of a breakdown in the logic of she couldn't excuse the artist's role in perpetuating misogynistic images.

i suppose it's one thing to say "nelly's a soft-core merchant" and "we don't want him associated with our charity drive" and "we wouldn't have invited larry flynt, either".

but i wonder how much of the resistance here comes down to the strength of the literal images in the video and not the imagery in the music. focusing on the video seems to be missing the point. would he have been un-invited if the video had been tamer??

i keep thinking of trina for some reason, maybe because i've been listening to a lot of trina the past few days. would trina have been un-invited? i don't think she promotes misogyny in her music, but it depicts a misogynistic world in exciting terms and i'm not quite sure where the difference is. breaking it down to trina = a woman seems unsatisfactory to say the least.

vahid (vahid), Friday, 23 April 2004 07:20 (twenty-two years ago)

also the whole shebang becomes sort of anti-climactic if you just reduce it to "well, the video was just tacky enough that it just crosses the line into softcore and we don't want to associate that with our college"

vahid (vahid), Friday, 23 April 2004 07:21 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, my response is totally 'bravo' and 'amen' and one thing i like about hearing the debate on the radio (beyond just even hearing a debate about misogyny in hip-hop on hip-hop radio and not coming from bs rightwing antirap assholes who could give a fuck about misogyny and are just using it as an in to attack hip-hop) is that it's pretty much taken entirely for granted that, yep, nelly's a misogynist. the debate has come on whether it was right to cancel a charitable event over this, whether they needed to "look at the big picture", etc. (i call bullshit on this btw). ALOT of people have noted how awful the 'tip drill' video is, and i think it's more a point of that being the straw that broke the camel's back and provoked an 'ENOUGH' than any notions that this represents a new development.

cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 23 April 2004 07:28 (twenty-two years ago)

and as someone who listens to plenty of 2 live crew, crunk (which i don't really find nearly as misogynous as, say, 80% of pop music, nevermind jess and simonr - there's something about people jumping to 'black men shouting = threatening' instead of 'black men shouting = joyful' that gnaws at me a bit), or hell fill in the blanks (indie rock, country, dancehall) that makes me face my own conflicts and contradictions on this matter.

cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 23 April 2004 07:33 (twenty-two years ago)

ie. why am i able to enjoy blatantly sexist music with relative ease whereas music that's as blatantly racist (and note you won't find nearly as many examples of this on the radio/charts/etc.) disgusts me immediately?

cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 23 April 2004 07:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I need that bone marrow, and I'm willing to overlook a little credit-card ass-swiping to get it

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

a few weeks back I was riding the subway and saw some 15 year-old boys yell "It must be your ass cuz it ain't your face! I need a tip drill!" at some 15 year-old girls.

hstencil, Friday, 23 April 2004 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

ie. why am i able to enjoy blatantly sexist music with relative ease whereas music that's as blatantly racist (and note you won't find nearly as many examples of this on the radio/charts/etc.) disgusts me immediately?

There's a $64,000 question if ever there was one. But has there ever been even slightly an answer that applies? My own standby (or crutch if you like) of ranking the lyrics as completely secondary in the first place doesn't provide an explanation, and in this case anyway the emphasis was less on the song content as it was the visual, it seems.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"Oh my God,'' Bailey said, noticing the women's buttocks swirling about. "Wow.''

I hate to be awful but that line is somewhat special

Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

the only time "Tip Drill" is ever on tv is on BET Uncut, which shows lots of equally risque videos by lesser known rappers. I mean, there are plenty of videos that don't go quite this far but are actually in heavy rotation on MTV during the daytime, so I don't know which is more deserving of this kind of controversy.

Al (sitcom), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

>there's something about people jumping to 'black men shouting = threatening' instead of 'black men shouting = joyful' that gnaws at me a bit

Not to derail, but maybe it's the fact that the black men shouting in crunk videos are quite often shouting threats that makes people view it as threatening.

Re Nelly, I haven't seen the video. Is it available online anywhere?

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

the only time "Tip Drill" is ever on tv is on BET Uncut...

here in New York, it can be seen on cable access video shows pretty often.

hstencil, Friday, 23 April 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

My buttocks don't swirl. What am I doing wrong?

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Why "tip drill"? Isn't that a basketball practice term (where you line up and throw the ball at the backboard and the guy behind you tips it back for the guy behind him etc.)?

Nemo (JND), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah. Maybe it's because during a tip drill you're only looking at the back of the person in front of you, never the face.

Nemo (JND), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I enjoy the term "BOBFOC" (body off Baywatch, face off Crimewatch)

Donna Brown (Donna Brown), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...
i sometimes like to see what people are saying about what happened. your comments are some of the most provocative and i'd like to be in touch if you'd like!

Moya

Moya, Monday, 24 April 2006 15:35 (twenty years ago)

Oh cool.
hah this convo was 2 years ago but I think the original participants are still around. blount otm.

deeej, Monday, 24 April 2006 18:23 (twenty years ago)


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