Television

NYC Native: The band is not the same without Richard Lloyd. I am assuming he won't be there. I saw them in Central Park a few years back and it was lackluster at best. If Lloyd is somehow on board I'd say by all means attend.

Disagree. Lloyd is inimitable and irreplaceable but they remain very much worth seeing. Ripp has his own thing to bring. The rough trade shows were excellent. I don't blame kwhitehead for forming that opinion based on that Central Park show though -- it was right after Lloyd left and it sucked.

yeah, i mean you shouldn't expect the heights of 1978 or anything, but if you like hearing verlaine play guitar, how could it be bad? not to mention that rhythm section.
the recent instrumental set in NYC last weekend sounded interesting.

this is cool -- numero is putting out an Ork Records box set -- television, hell, chilton, feelies, many more!
http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xfa1/t51.2885-15/10946552_327555314118909_2025837582_n.jpg

!

it is a GOOD IDEA.
feelies stuff is particularly exciting because those recordings have never been released (or bootlegged afaik)

Richard's jug-like runs on "Fire Engine" <3

Has anyone ever seen Tom Verlaine or Richard Lloyd reference any interest in Wishbone Ash? You listen to the guitar playing on songs like 'The Pilgrim' especially on their live record, you definitely find some sonic similarity with Television. I know Thin Lizzy and Maiden were both inspired by the dual guitar playing, but in some ways you can hear it quite a bit in Television.

Richard's jug-like runs on "Fire Engine" <3

Hmm. I don't think I have seen Verlaine or Lloyd talk about Wishbone Ash at all, but I can see why you'd come to that conclusion. I might dig out Adventure for a listen soon, it's been a while.

Just saw them live the other night. I don't know Wishbone Ash, so can't say. I heard bits of surf, Duane Eddy, Coltrane free jazz.

I saw Television most recently maybe a year or two ago (post-Lloyd era), and I took a guitar nerd friend of mine who was a) somehow not terribly familiar with Television and b) weirdly unimpressed. I think he dismissed it as "faux-naive" or something like that.

verlaine would say he's never heard of wishbone ash, lloyd would say he taught the wishbone ash guys how to play guitar. both would not be exactly true.

that's a weird reaction to television - makes 'em sound like fuckin pomplamoose xp

by the way! if you haven't checked it out, i just re-upped my comp of richard hell-era Television here: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/149945081937/television-a-season-in-hell-sunday-re-up-ive

Whoa thanks. Downloading.

sweet!

I'm going to start calling everything I don't like "faux-naive" now.

As a guitarist, Verlaine is kind've a weird mixture of virtuoso and non-virtuoso, tho - like, I can't ever imagine him every playing in a totally improvised jazz-chops type context (and he's never shown any inclination or desire to do so), yet he's incredibly adept and 'in the moment' when he takes a solo w/ Television. So, if you're a guitar nerd who worships someone like Allan Holdsworth, yeah, he prob is going to seem limited and technically unsophisticated maybe; whereas first gen Brit punkers I know thought Television were 'boring musos' when they first toured the UK.

So, if you're a guitar nerd who worships someone like Allan Holdsworth, yeah, he prob is going to seem limited and technically unsophisticated maybe

Sure, but there's nothing "faux" about this. As far as I know, it's not like Verlaine could play like Holdsworth and is dumbing himself down, let alone self-consciously. The quote was vaguely remembered and second-hand though so.

Second party anyway

Tbh Lloyd outpaces Verlaine in a way that would be more appealing to conventional guitar mag types..Verlaine is Verlaine (which is great)

yeah lloyd is the chops side of the equation (though Verlaine in the 80s occasionally sounds pretty chopsy).

the left-brain/right brain - lloyd/verlaine split is my favourite thing about television - they play together so beautifully despite their totally different approaches to guitar (i remember lloyd saying something to the effect that he could always play the same thing perfectly over and over again while verlaine could never play the same thing twice).

i really enjoy some of their solo work but there's something alchemical about the way they play together. and volatile too - the only time i've ever seen them live verlaine was visibly angry at some minor infraction committed by lloyd and it really soured the whole gig

the only time i've ever seen them live verlaine was visibly angry at some minor infraction committed by lloyd and it really soured the whole gig

Yes, much the same thing happened the first time I saw Television live (at the Tortoise-curated ATP) - but I think it gave the performance an energy (negative or otherwise) that was pretty compelling to witness. A number of years later I saw Verlaine and Rip play a duo show together - Tom was in a far happier mood, and some of his playing was exquisite, but Rip was much more of an support, much less of a foil - or a spur - than Lloyd.

My guitar nerd friend is more the collect 78s sort. Xpost

slightly off topic but how amazing is it that matthew sweet got both lloyd and robert quine to play on girlfriend, even if not together?

it's like leftfield guitar hero fantasy football

Is Television the most uncerachieving band ever? They would have to be in the running.

it's like leftfield guitar hero fantasy football

ha! christ. what a dude. what a rolodex.

Is Television the most uncerachieving band ever? They would have to be in the running.

they don't have a huge, widely-popular back catalogue and tom verlaine probably doesn't have a yacht he can berth on the amalfi coast next to bono's but they're still drawing crowds around the world 43 years after they formed and they've been influential critical darlings since the start so i'd have to say... no

the most underachieving band ever is, by definition, all-but-unidentifiable

i guess i'd be more interested in finding out how the band feel about touring on just three recorded albums' worth of material, with the most widely-appreciated stuff from an album that is 39 years old. does it get boring? do they wish they'd recorded more? would they do it if they didn't need the money? do they need the money?

don't know the answer to those questions, but here's what fred smith does when he's not bass-ing for Television: http://cereghinosmith.com/

awesome - i love it when rock stars age and start getting into esoteric shit, like roger daltrey's fish farm or neil young's model train obsession. and lincvolt. and pono.

Saw an interview where Verlaine said that if Jimmy Rip was living near him, and not in Argentina now, that Jimmy would likely have encouraged him to record. Verlaine introduced one song as being one of his earliest tunes that never made it to a recording, and then added, maybe we will record it the next time we go into a studio.

Television has had new material in setlists since the early 00s (as I've probably noted before in this very thread), but it seems like Verlaine is deeply disinterested in actually putting any of it out. Crazy that his last solo record is a decade old now. That old tune he mentioned is "I'm Gonna Find You" the original of which you can find on that Season In Hell comp. It's good!

Their new record, per Ripp, is pretty much tracked but does not have finished vocals. This was the state of things like... 2 years ago? I'm not holding my breath but I'm not hopeless either.

x-post --Can't remember where I read that, but I also saw this Jimmy Rip interview:

And are you working on anything new?
The first year I was in the band we recorded like seventeen songs that are still sitting on a hard drive. I think Tom pulls them out every once in a while and works on them a little bit. They sound really good, they sound just like Television. We're just waiting for Tom to finish them. There's a really good record there, we play a couple of new songs every show.

https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/jimmy-rip-new-york-punk-legends-television

They've been doing that long "Persia" song for awhile now

ha, yeah that song is 20 years old now!
i'd welcome a new Television album ... I like all their records.

new album, reportedly? called "sleep all day"? on RedMusic/SuperEgo?

unless the post to the television forum was an april fools joke? in which case, i took the bait.

I'm assuming it's a 4/1 thing until proven otherwise

Check it tomorrow.

haha, yeah, probably a april fools joke ...
however, i think this is real:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8RZZrgW0AA6QOb.jpg:large
http://www.everythingiscombustible.com/

Funny that , just listening to a Tom Verlaine '84 show when I saw this thread.
Also just been reminded that there was a book about the band that came out about 10 years ago. & I'd stuck it on my Amazon wish list then forgotten about it until a couple of days back.
Sonic Transmission by Tim Mitchell. Anybody read it? Is it any good?

I belatedly thought of checking for sonic transmissions on the kindle store and it's on there (last time I looked for it I was on a Nook). I downloaded the free sample chapter. Will report back. Apprently there's a missing chapter from the kindle edition though?

i haven't read it -- i picked it up in a bookstore a long time ago and was kind of annoyed by the pages I read (can't remember why though). maybe i was just in a bad mood. Bryan Waterman's 33 1/3 on Marquee Moon is probably the best thing I've read on the band.