The anatomy of a sound check

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My friend has asked me if I will turn up early to one of their gigs to do a sound check, to replace another person who had to pull out. I said I would help out, sure, and he seemed pleased, although I think he's not expecting much (I don't have a sound engineering background or anything). So anyone able to give me some tips? I know that essentially it's about getting the instruments in the band balanced, and that I stand at the back of the venue, but is there anything else. Do I start with a particular instrument in isolation - the drums?; what intruments have to be more present, etc. and how do I have to consider the acoustics changing once the room becomes full of people. Any suggestions so I can impress would be greatly appreciated.

― Val, Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm no expert but
1. do instruments seperately to begin with, this is when you sort out the individual eqs.
1. sort out the kick & snare, then rest of drums.
2. do other intruments seperately, asking them if they have any effects their using & listening to the difference.
3. get them to play together, adjusting volumes & eqs.
4. it depends on the room, but when an audience is there they tend to soak up bass frequencies, so add slightly more in the soundcheck.
5. as i said i'm no expert. just pretend you know what your doing!

― zappi (joni), Thursday, 13 May 2004 10:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Good tips for a starters, thanks. Last thing -- I'm not sure if they'll have a PA or if they intend to simply play through their guitar amps, but if they do have a PA, I'd quite like to know the basics (what exactly does the PA do??). I'm not even sure if the guitar and bass and singer all go directly into the PA or if only the siger does, whilst the guitarist and bassist go into their own amps, before they too go into the PA. And if they have a mixing desk, will the instruments first go into the desk's inputs, and then from the desk's outputs into the inputs of the PA? They probably won't expect me to know a great deal, but if I'm doing it I want to do a fair job.

― Val, Thursday, 13 May 2004 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

They've got to use a PA to sing through, at least.

As for all the other questions, it depends on the size of the venue. And of the PA.

You could just put the vocals in the PA and have the guitar and bass amps and drums fill the room themselves.

On smaller PAs, there's a squarish PA head, with inputs that the players will run cords from their amp outputs and microphones into. Generally, the head is kept somewhere on stage, so that the players (or, in this case, you) can make adjustments.

For larger systems, with mixing desks and all, there's usually something called a snake, which has many cords on one end that all go into the mixing desk, then the other end is just a box of inputs that goes on the stage. (This way there's only one thin cord running between the stage and the desk, not dozens of thin, trip-over-able ones.) You plug the amp outputs and microphone cables into the snake, and then you can control volumes, EQs, etc. from the desk.

As for people filling up the room and changing the sound, a real pro (of which I am not) could probably tell you exactly what to do. But in general, you won't know how many people there will be until the show is going, so those adjustments are best made on the fly.

You need to ask lots of questions of the band, about what they want and what kind of equipment you'll be dealing with. Don't be embarrassed; remember, they asked you to do this.

Good luck!

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Thursday, 13 May 2004 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and I forgot: The general principle seems to be that you want to put as many things as possible (all vocals, of course, and as many instruments as possible) into the PA. That way you can control everything.

Without overloading the PA, that is. Don't worry; you'll be able to hear if/when that happens.

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Thursday, 13 May 2004 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks very much, Rick. You and Zappi have pretty much answered all my questions! I feel quite a bit more confident now, Cheers.

I'll ask some more questions of my mate now, but I already know that the venue will be very small (so the PA will likely be one that's just for the singer, I guess - with all the others going into individual guitar and bass guitar amps and the drums au naturale?).

― Val, Thursday, 13 May 2004 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

May still be worth micing up the kick and snare / hi-hat at least, depending on how loud the drummer plays compared with everyone else.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 13 May 2004 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Could be. Or the opposite could happen - the drummer could overwhelm people, volume-wise. (Not much you can do in that case.)

With a small PA like that, you have less control, but your job is much simpler - microphones plug directly into the PA inputs; each has its own channel, with its own volume and bass/treble (some PAs have more subtle distinctions, but the principle is the same). Then just stand in the back and tell people to turn up/down, based on what sounds good to you (again, they asked you). If the band's played more than a couple of gigs, they've probably got it halfway figured out anyway.

And make sure you get free beer!

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Thursday, 13 May 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I'm going to enjoy this, actually. It's howlround and the popping and spluttering sounds caused by dodgy guitar connectors that I'm dreading most, but you are right - as long as I have beer, anything's bearable.

Bytheway, with the bigger full band PA's you mentioned earlier, you say the snake goes from the players on stage into the mixing desk -- presumably a stereo jack leads from the desks output into the PA amp?

― Val, Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Forgive me - now that *was* a dumb question.

― Val, Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but in venues that have that big a PA, those connections (desk to power amps, amps to the PA speakers) are already made and left there. And usually the snake is already plugged into the desk as well, so all you have to do is plug amps and mikes into the box that's on stage.

If it's that big a venue and doesn't have its own PA system, and everything has to be built from scratch, don't take the gig. It's not for beginners.

In your small-PA scenario, the first challenge of "howlround" (I assume you mean feedback) is figuring out which mike is the culprit. Turning the mikes 45 degrees in each direction will normally uncover the problem, but it might have to be trial and error - turn down each channel until it goes away. The problem is that everyone is so afraid (rightly so) of blowing out the audience's ears that they all turn their mikes away at once, and you don't know which one was feeding back.

As for dodgy guitar connectors, that's the players' problem. I don't mean that in a snotty way; there's just nothing you can do.

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:39 (twenty-two years ago)

You've been really helpful. Thank you.

― Val, Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

If the band's played more than a couple of gigs, they've probably got it halfway figured out anyway.

Not in my experience. The bassist in my band is 50, and has been playing live for over 30 years. He carries 1500w of backline, we're playing pubs. "I don't turn it up all the way" oh haha. You don't have to be rude, but be firm. If someone is too loud (read: drowning out the singer even if the mic is turned up to the point just before feedback) don't ask them to turn down, tell them to turn down, and make sure you explain why, and make sure the rest of the band hear this.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"Not in my experience. The bassist in my band is 50, and has been playing live for over 30 years. He carries 1500w of backline, we're playing pubs."

I'm sure I've been in a band with him - is his name Nick?!?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

"Not in my experience."
Not in mine either. I don't know why I was being so optimistic there.

"If someone is too loud (read: drowning out the singer even if the mic is turned up to the point just before feedback) don't ask them to turn down, tell them to turn down, and make sure you explain why, and make sure the rest of the band hear this."

Well, that depends on the situation, I guess. For a band member or full-time soundman, sure; our friend Val here is just helping out some pals for a night.

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but in this instance, it's insurance - "you fucked our sound" "no, actually, if you remember, I did tell your bassist to turn down"

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

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