Bands that Began to Suck Once They Learned How to Play Their Instruments

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The obv. choice being Pavement whose best albums are Slanted and Enchanted and Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain in which the fun lies in large part to the amateurish playing. And who became less and less fun as they became better (albeit not brilliant) musicians.

― Stephen Malkovich, Malkovich, Malkovich (Miss Lonelyhearts), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Sonic Youth! Oh wait, they never learned how to play. HaHahahaha!!
Catch me if you can! *runs and hides under the bed where all the Gentle Giant album are*

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey wait, the later Pavement albums are waaaaaay better than Slanted & Enchanted! That early stuff is for the birds. *runs up a tree with the birds knowing that Pavement fans don't know how to climb*

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

New Order. (ducks)

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Bands that haven't yet learned how to play their instruments usually suck.

― bahtology, Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

as do ones that have. the fact is, most bands suck. in this way it matters not whether one can "play." what matters is not sucking.

― duke upsurge, Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Ramones to thread, anyone?

― Johnney B, Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw The Bangles on t.v. a couple years ago doing a live show and they STILL didn't know how to play their instruments. And they've been a band for, like, over 20 years!! They must be the most punk rock of all.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Manic Street Preachers own this thread.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The ALWAYS knew how to play - the widdly bit in Motorcycle Emptiness in tricksier than it sounds, you know.

― Johnney B, Sunday, 16 May 2004 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

2 of them might have known how to play. Are you familiar with the term "session musician", Johnney?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

as do ones that have. the fact is, most bands suck. in this way it matters not whether one can "play." what matters is not sucking.
These are words that deserve recitation when you wake up and before you go to bed.
It's not quite the same thing, but a lot of house and techno producers sounded better when they were recording on shitty equipment. Ron Trent and Juan Atkins come to mind.
Orbital recorded "Chime" on shitty equipment (their words, not mine), and that's still their defining moment for a lot of people (those people are wrong, but there's a lot of them out there).

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Lee Perry's best work on 4-track, too.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

When Kraftwerk visited New Order's studio to see how New Order made Blue Monday (Kraftwerk were very impressed by Blue Monday) they couldn't believe the shitty-ass gear that New Order used. They went away shaking their robot heads.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Burns Verkaufen Der Kraftwerk.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i dunno, i like stuff that costs a dollar and i like stuff that costs a million. it's all what you do with it. I do like early severed heads a lot more than later severed heads though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

People can definitely get caught up in the tech and gear though once they have the money to and disappear up their own butts. it happens a lot.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed. I was imagining Kraftwerk's reaction to New Order's studio being the same as the Germans when they buy Springfield Nuclear Power Plant.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha Ha! It probably was something like that.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The Pastels

― fletcher dexter, Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

The Jesus and Mary Chain went downhill after they got better (although 'Darklands' is still my favorite - they can sort of play on that one)

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

A Certain Ratio are made for this thread.

― Jason J, Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Kraftwerks studio ... must have been incredible

― A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Spencer wins.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

JasonJ wins too...

― fletcher dexter, Sunday, 16 May 2004 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

This reminds me of the Nirvana interview where Kurt sez of the Shaggs that their later records weren't as good, cos they learnt their instruments... heh heh

― John 2, Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

This is kinda cool. From 1981: http://www.keepwerking.co.uk/info2.php

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

and this on Kling Klang (caution:technical drawings!):

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/aktivitaet/10_kk1.htm

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Lightning Bolt

― 24 hours with the King of Snake. (SNAKE!) (ex machina), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The Slits

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the later, more proficient, Velvets much less than the first album. That may be the only example I can think of. Mind you, I might take Live '69 or at least tapes from that era over WL/WH.

I haven't listened to tons of later Mary Chain but I have trouble believing that it's that much more technically adept than the earlier stuff. (I have heard Darklands and certainly don't think they play a lot better on that than they do on Psychocandy. I also think it sucks but that's another matter.)

Hmm, Patti Smith does sing a lot better on the 90s stuff, and uses more pro studio musicians on it too. Those albums are certainly not as good as the early albums. I guess she started singing 'well' on Easter, which I do like, if maybe not as much as Radio Ethiopia.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 16 May 2004 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Prince (a self contained one man band)

― thesplooge (thesplooge), Sunday, 16 May 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

when did Prince not know how to play his instruments? In grade-school?

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 16 May 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

The bootleg tapes from his second-grade school play show that he blew one guitar line.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 16 May 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

hey i was there at his prom when his band were performing, and he fucked up more than a few dimuendos.

what i mean is that if you listen to a lot of his more recent records, hes really into playing completely compared to before and it hasnt helped him any.

― thesplooge (thesplooge), Sunday, 16 May 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i meant 'into playing completely perfectly compared to before'.

― thesplooge (thesplooge), Sunday, 16 May 2004 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Kiss. Ace Frehley was the only musician of relative distinction on their best, earliest LPs. (Appropriately, his was also the greatest of the infamous solo LPs.)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Sunday, 16 May 2004 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

this question makes no senses and attempts to create a paradigm that's utter crap.

― jack cole (jackcole), Sunday, 16 May 2004 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

the godz.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Sunday, 16 May 2004 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

his name is alive

― keith m (keithmcl), Sunday, 16 May 2004 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the stooges lost a lot of what was enjoyable about them with the addition of someone who could play guitar, james williamson, on raw power. that album just isn't the same without the asheton's sloppy guitar. things like that are what makes fun house one of my favorite records.

― avoido, Monday, 17 May 2004 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

You really think Fun House is sloppy?

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 17 May 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I don't get that at all. I always thought one of the main reasons Fun House was so much better than Raw Power was that Asheton was so much better as a guitarist than Williamson, who sounds like a hack to me. The other reason is that he's not as good as a bassist.

And, yeah, with the Prince thing too -> going from virtuosic (which old Prince definitely is) to even more virtuosic (I'll take your word since I haven't listened to recent Prince albums) != "once he learned to play his instruments".

Likewise with the Mary Chain, Psychocandy is very simple but performed flawlessly. AFAICT this remained the case for them. Did their songs become much more complicated or demanding? I suppose that after Darklands they lost a drummer and started using a drum machine so maybe that means they played less instruments.

I can think of lots of bands/artists who improved when they 'learned to play their instruments' though.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 17 May 2004 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

For example:

― Mike Guy (Miss Lonelyhearts), Monday, 17 May 2004 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think new order can play their instruments any better now than they could 20-odd years ago. same goes for nicky wire. my cat can play better bass.

― the surface noise of psychotic badassery (electricsound), Monday, 17 May 2004 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Glenn Branca, Fred Frith, possibly Sonic Youth, Voivod, Godspeed You Black Emperor! (maybe a debatable case but Fists struck me as much more proficient than F#A#oo), Radiohead.

(x-post)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 17 May 2004 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

But it may be hard to say even with those. Fred Frith's compositional chops have certainly grown and diversified and he may even be a better guitarist than he used to be but he probably did have quite a bit of guitar chops even in the Henry Cow days. And with Radiohead, who were always tight, it's hard to say whether their music got more challenging and allowed them to use their skills more or whether they learned to play more challenging material and so started to write accordingly.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 17 May 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

It thankfully took them a while to suck, but Sweet.. definitely.

― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 May 2004 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

ill put hip hop in here as a whole genre. its sucked horribly since sampling ceased as the main source of beats.

― thesplooge (thesplooge), Monday, 17 May 2004 08:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Very ex-post, but the Ramones ALWAYS knew how to play their instruments. I'll give Marky a slight edge over Tommy, I guess, but I defy you to find a sloppy moment on any of the early albums.

― briania (briania), Monday, 17 May 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

for some bands "learning to play" equals being sucking into the void of the common place and cliched. Inventiveness loses out to "this is how you should really be doing it".

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 17 May 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah the Pastels is the first thing i thought of here too

― rentboy (rentboy), Monday, 17 May 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I've always felt that any amount of imagination will be enough to keep something from totally sucking, not the technical aspects.

― Trever Booth (xjzico), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

As much as it pains me, I'd say the Circle Jerks. It's not that they began to suck, but they became much less fun.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Now I'm picturing Alex in NYC as Emilio Estevez...

"I can't believe I used to like these guys!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

JAMC's best album is _Reverence_.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think new order can play their instruments any better now than they could 20-odd years ago. same goes for nicky wire

New Order & The Manics may not have gotten any better as musicians, but they've certainly gotten a lot more boring.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

x post

If you substitute "song" for "album", Dan, I'd totally agree.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I meant _Honey's Dead_, d'oh.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Oops, I didn't think of that. I still prefer Psychocandy as an album tho', but that could just be nostalgia.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

But yeah, that song completely kicks my ass. I never liked JAMC until I heard that track.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

"I wanna DIEEEEEuh...I wanna DIEEEEEuh..."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow, I suddenly really, really miss 1991.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

When people compare Black Rebel Motorzzzzzz to the JAMC, that's the exact song they're trying to rip off.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

And very very dully at that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Which is why I fall asleep halfway thru their name.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 17 May 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

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