Taking Sides: It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back vs. Straight Outta Compton

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Which of these 1988 early rap classics do you like better?

My vote goes to Straight Outta Compton.

― Rotten Dirt, Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Mine too, even though nation is way more consistent. But the first three tracks on SOC cannot be faded.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Nation by a mile, even if the title cut of SOC is the best thing on either.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:44 (twenty-two years ago)

only one loses steam halfway through.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Because the other didn't have any steam to begin with.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 20 May 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

oh please.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

so what's the best track on "nation of millions"?

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

honestly i've never thought of "straight outta compton" as an album. it sounds more like two eps by different groups pasted together and sold with a few bonus tracks.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

straight out of compton has aged way more gracefully.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

straight outta compton has inspired way more "straight outta..." titles

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:18 (twenty-two years ago)

best track on NOM: "Rebel without a Pause"

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, PE sure were brilliant with their punny, substitutive wordplay

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

so what's the best track on "nation of millions"?
-- vahid

'Louder Than A Bomb'. Or maybe 'Don't Believe the Hype'. Or maybe 'Rebel'.

I vote for NWA's less consistent record, because of the first 4 tracks. The PE record is a little too consistent, too long, and drops off right and the end. Too many filler tracks. Still amazing though.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

how about niggaz4life vs apocalypse 91?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Nations and "Caught, Can We Get a Witness?".

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"extra special thankz to ... all the gangsters, dope dealers, criminals, thieves, vandals, villians, thugs, hoodlums, killers, hustlers, base heads, hypes, winos, bums, arsonists, police, maniacs & bad ass kids for listening"

straight outta compton has better liner notes.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

another reason this is unfair: three rappers versus one rapper (yes, i know).

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

SOC, easily.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Though to be fair, it has been tainted by everything Chuck D has done since the album came out.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

And Dre, Ice Cube and Easy-E all peaked after SOC. So maybe it's a little unfair.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Nations and "Bring the Noise". But "Night of the Living Baseheads" has my fave moment on the record:

[um, sample attribution I don't remember]:"1,2,3,4,5,6 kick it!"
[Run sample]:"A few years ago.."
Chuck: "I put this together to-"
[Aretha sample]:"ROCK!"
Chuck: "-the bells that boost the dose," etc

Two brilliant life-changing records. But PE came first and will always be nearest and dearest to my heart. I never thought Straight Outta Compton had any filler at the time. In retrospect, sure, there are a couple superfluous tracks on the second side. Back in the day though, we just put the sucker on and let it play.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

t/s: "something 2 dance 2" vs. "mind terrorist" / "show em watcha got" / "security of the first world"

(three of the most tension-filled hip hop instrumentals ever!)

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

(gah; "the bells of those that" etc)

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm surprised nobody's mentioned "black steel". in my mind "black steel" competes with everything on SOC except the title track.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

one is one of the great records. the other is a notch above a piece of shit.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

how about niggaz4life vs apocalypse 91?

shouldn't that be vs "fear of a black planet"?

how about "NWA and the Posse" vs. "yo! bum rush the show"?

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:36 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post HAHAHA but i've no idea which is which!!!

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

try listening to them

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Matos "by a mile" is an overstatement, I mean I love Nation but "Gangsta Gangsta"? "Straight Outta Compton"? "Express Your" fucking "Self"? "Fuck tha" motherfucking "Po" fucking "lice"? Maybe I'm pullin' some you-had-to-be-there bullshit or something, but in southern California Straight Outta Compton rang like Waterford crystal. I have seriously never experienced anything like it, especially when I saw how the adolescents on the locked ward loved it. To them, Public Enemy was fun, but N.W.A. was killer, which struck me then & strikes me now as a meaningful distinction.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i am - it's like one of those optical illusions where it switches back and forth as you look at it!

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

ha gabbneb I don't know which one you mean is which but you're wrong either way!!!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

both are 91 vahid

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

AH now i see...

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

by a mile isn't an overstatement at all

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:41 (twenty-two years ago)

yes it is so there

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:42 (twenty-two years ago)

NOM by a mile, maybe by two miles. The album is great from start to finish (my fav is prophets of rage), and the only filler are the transition tracks that are basically MEANT to be filler. You need a breather, after all.

The fact that everyone is picking a different favorite track from NOM is further evidence of its superiority. If you ask 20 people what their favorite track on SOC is, you will get a total of 3, MAYBE 4 answers. With NOM, I bet you get 8-9. I can listen to people argue for SOC (I mean, I agree, John, those SONGS you list were unbelievable), but the bottom line is that I NEVER get the urge to hear a single song from side 2.

Plus, NOM still has my favorite intro ever for a hip hop album.

Go get a late pass! Step!

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

this one is too close to call for me...I agree with some of the points both J0hn and Matos have made...

actually I might take Nation if forced, because of vahid's excellent point about the short instrumentals....they are amazing little bits.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

this is kinda surprising coming from you Matos! the beats: they're totally electro, not that you're a big electro head or anything but I'd think you'd have love for a record whose heart has some dance floor in it

I don't know, I love NOM but everybody gets so rockist when they talk about it

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm rooting for the other team and all, but "Cold Lamping With Flavor" can't go unmentioned!

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

also Ice Cube's meter & rhyme slays Chuck D's eight ways to Sunday, and always has

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know, I love NOM but everybody gets so rockist when they talk about it

I was just going to say that PE's classic rock canon love is working against them BIG TIME on this thread....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

also Ice Cube's meter & rhyme slays Chuck D's eight ways to Sunday, and always has

Not to mention his acting. TS: Barbershop vs. An Alan Smithee Film: Burn Hollywood Burn

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously though, solo Cube slays everything by PE and NWA combined.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

hooray for rockism!

xpost haha yeah that War & Peace was some kind of masterpiece no doubt!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously though, solo Cube slays everything by PE and NWA combined.

Amerikkka's Most Wanted is basically just a perfect mix of PE and NWA, so it's only logical.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh come on, that's like discrediting PE becusae of Chuck D's Air America show.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

"Extradited" from The War Disc is about as perfect as a song can get!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd think you'd have love for a record whose heart has some dance floor in it

Nation has some dancefloor in it too!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever happened to Mr. Short Khop?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 152 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

i think there is a divide over west coast vs. east coast preference at work here... also i sense some classism at work as well.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

LONG ISLAND VS. COMPTON FITE

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:54 (twenty-two years ago)

It's definitely WC vs EC for me; I barely even recognized West Coast rap until Ice Cube's _The Predator_.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

x post

*cough*ahem*cough* Strong Island.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

classism which way? (xpost)

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

that's horribly depressing Dan...

you'd never heard MC Hammer, Too $hort, or Digital Underground?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, in terms of imagination and what I could/wanted to relate to at the time, paranoid tales of an ordinary black man getting ambushed by racism at every turn >>> gangbanger lifestyle narrative.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's actually a Democrat vs. Republican thing, gygax!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(haha gygax! are you being disingenuous?)

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

"Results 1 - 10 of about 526 for Eazy E + republican. (0.25 seconds)"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

tough call for me, so I'll side with the one I actually listen to the most which is, of course, Straight Outta Compton. I gotta be in a particular mood for PE, and Nation of Millions seems more stuck in its particular time - it's like an artifact encased in amber - I don't wanna say its dated cuz that's a pretty dismissive term and it is a great record, but I do have a problem separating the record from my memories of black culture circa '89 (bad fades, Cross Colors, Do the Right Thing, Yo! MTV Raps). Whereas Straight Outta Compton has maintained its immediacy - it still sounds like a block party and a riot and a beatdown at the hands of the police rolled into one and all that shit could be happening tomorrow. NOM sounds a little stuffy and self-righteous next to SOC.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd take Straight Outta Compton over Nation if Cube and Eazy were the only rappers on it. But they're not.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

ok, fine - Nation of Millions, by 100 Miles and Runnin'

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't care much for either album, which is odd because I consider Fear of a Black Planet and efil4zaggin to be among the greatest albums ever made. I'll vote in favour of Compton, though, because I only like one song on Nation, and it's due almost entirely to the JBs sample that makes up the music.

didn't Cube write his cameo for "Burn?"

I've always thought it was funny that of the 3 rappers on the song, Ice Cube almost completely ignores the Hollywood bashing of the track and ended up having the only successful movie career of the 3.

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

SOC fans are GOP fans too.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

"due almost entirely to the JBs sample that makes up the music."

Are you referring to "Blow Your Head"? Or "The Grunt"?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure Eazy really was a Republican, even if he did go to a GOP fundraiser

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

not that he was anything else

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

which is odd because I consider ... efil4zaggin to be among the greatest albums ever made.

yes, that is very odd. ???

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I might prefer NWA, but I'd still never have dinner with the President.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

YOUR $12 LET EAZY PAY $2500 A PLATE

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

unless you were like me and just taped that shit off friends' copies

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

hah! by the time I actually paid for a copy of Straight Outta Compton, Eazy was already dead.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

my dad upon listening to a second of a shitty dub tape of Eazy Does It: "I invented the word 'motherfucker.'"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 20 May 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

it's funny cuz your Dad said it....

one of my favorite memories of SOC was having a cop hold up the album at a high school journalism seminar and explain why it shouldn't be protected as free speech. The cop then went on to chuckle to himself while detailing his various methods for hassling crips when he pulled them over (spelling everything on their tickets with "B"s, a la "Bompton", etc.)

I hate LA cops.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

fucking cops

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you referring to "Blow Your Head"?

Yup.

yes, that is very odd. ???

It's all in the production (cuz I certainly wouldn't champion the lyrical content); I'm as amazed by some of the sounds on there as I was when I was 15. I don't think Dre ever came close to this again, which is why I've always thought Yella probably was a lot more important than he seems to be thought of.

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I will listen again. "100 miles and running" is great musically, the only other songs i remember are the jokey skits/ballads... isn't michelle on this record?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

speaking of Dr. Dre's verse on Michel'le's "Nicety" is one of the worst verses in the history of music.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

the title track of 100 miles is breathtaking absolutely one of the most thrilling rap trax evah.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I will listen again. "100 miles and running" is great musically, the only other songs i remember are the jokey skits/ballads

"100 Miles..." isn't on that album (or did that EP get tacked on the reissue?).

See, I hear the album as a whole set piece, so when "I'd Rather Fuck You" or "Don't Drink That Wine" comes on, it always strikes me as part of the "story" the album is trying to tell (in contrast, whenever the live in England stuff comes on Nation of Millions, the album comes to an abrupt hault, and loses all momentum).

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

"Blow Your Head" was only sampled on the first record, wasn't it?

After reading some more of the "first three songs only" comments about Straight Outta Compton, I gotta reiterate what dave said: "Dopeman" is on side 2. I mean, have the people saying this ever listened to the 2nd side? How could anyone not consider that one of the classic cuts from the record?

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, my bad. i haven't heard this in 14 years, i just remember that era of NWA and the production which you and M@tt have pointed out which I definitely remember as being great. I just remember being really let down with efil4zaggin, probably due to the lagging skits/ballads/commentary when i really was just looking for more of the same great tracks.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I mentioned on some other NWA thread that side 2 also has "I Ain't Tha One" (and "8-Ball", correct?) I don't buy that "only the first 3 great songs" malarkey.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously the only song I would take off the whole album is "Something Like That", and the only reason I'm saying that is because as I sit here and look at the track-listing, it's the only one I can't remember anything about! AND it's on side 1, whaddaya know. Heck, maybe I even like it, too. I'll have to listen to it again. "8 Ball" is side one (and YES, another big time classic, that doesn't fall amongst "the first three". sheesh)

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:41 (twenty-two years ago)

"Blow Your Head" was only sampled on the first record, wasn't it?

Fuck, yr right. I went and looked at my record collection, it's "The Grunt" I was thinking of ("Blow Your Head" is technically by Fred Wesley & the JBs, FWIW).

― Vic Funk, Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't go with the "first 3 tracks" theory, but I think SOC's middling tracks sit closer to the middle than NOM's, which doesn't have a weak track on it.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The songs on side 2 are not awful, and yes, dopeman is great. Again, SOC is a great record all the way through. But side 2 just isn't nearly as strong as side 2 of Nation.

Side 2 of Nation just has more great tracks: Night of the living bassheads, rebel without a pause, prophets of rage, Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos! Those are 4 GREAT tracks. Just classic songs. The only song I would call a classic on side 2 of SOC is dopeman.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

doesn't have a weak track on it.

That means you like "Party For Your Right To Fight"?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

No actually Vic, I think I might be wrong! I mean, it's just a minor pedantic point, but I was kind of wondering myself.

I looked it up - I was thinking of that wild synth intro, which was sampled on Yo! (on "Public Enemy No. 1", I think); but the-breaks claim it was sampled on "Caught, Can I Get a Witness". So maybe they sampled it twice. I can't remember it on the latter song, frankly. I'll have to listen again. Yikes, sorry for the confusion.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

That means you like "Party For Your Right To Fight"?

Hmmm, okay, well, it's as good as "Something 2 Dance 2" ?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Fear of a Black Planet would be a lot better (and at least as good as Nation) if you got rid of the pace-killing filler: tracks 6, 13-15, 17 and 19, the first 1:50 of track 8, the last 1:05 of track 10, and the first :15 of track 11.

That means you like "Party For Your Right To Fight"?

absolutely. and "black steel" beats the entirety of SOC.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

WAIT WAIT WAIT You're describing "Can't Do Nuttin' For Ya Man" A filler???

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

comparatively, yeah.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 20 May 2004 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

You want six dollars for WHAT?

No way is that filler.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Flav doesn't do filler.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Thursday, 20 May 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anybody remember the commercial for Flava Flav cereal that was on that Fight the Power home video thing they released? It was this cereal with little clocks in it.

"Now, inside this box, is minature clocks! You eat this cereal, you gon know what tiiiiiiime it is." *Pours milk on cereal*

"Listen." *Holds bowl up to his ear*

"That shit be tickin!"

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 20 May 2004 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - I have that video still, somewhere. I haven't watched that thing at least 12 years .. maybe more. It was awesome though. I might have to look for that tonight.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 21 May 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Track 17? Isn't that "Leave This off Your Fucking Charts"? That's better than anything on Nation!

So maybe they sampled it twice. I can't remember it on the latter song, frankly. I'll have to listen again. Yikes, sorry for the confusion.

Nah, "The Grunt" was the track I meant to say. I listened to Nation this evening and when "Rebel Without A Cause" came on this confused me even more because I couldn't figure out which JBs song was sampled, or if they just kept sampling the same two songs over and over again (there's a song on Terminator X's first solo album where he used "Blow Your Mind"'s synth part again, so it's not like they were above doing that).

― Vic Funk, Friday, 21 May 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

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