Did Steely Dan lose something after "Can't Buy a Thrill" ? (Also a thread to talk about the album in general)

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Okay so we all know what Steely Dan became, and that was something that was virtually unimprovable, but still whenever I listen to "Can't Buy A Thrill" I find myself looking forward to the tracks with David Palmer on them, and really loving them. And as a consequence I start to wonder...what would some of those later records be like with a sprinkling of Palmer here and there....imagine him singing "Doctor Wu", "Haitian Divorce", "Hey Nineteen", "Peg".
It would have provided a bit of variation, a softer, innocent counterpoint to Fagen's hard-voiced cynicism. Okay so he's one-dimensional on CBAT but like Fagen he would have progressed. His voice is sooooo FM radio, it's just a kind of decadent wet dream to imagine him on some of those super sophisticated later tracks.

Also I love this album. Even "Kings" and "Turn that Heartbeat Over Again".

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 21 May 2004 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Start sneering at me like supercillious Donald Fagens.....NOW.

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 21 May 2004 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"Dirty Work" is where it's at.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

David Palmer=Donald Fey-gan.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 21 May 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously, I think "Dirty Work" is my fave Steely Dan song.

― dleone (dleone), Friday, 21 May 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

it might be mine, too. Although I'd love to hear a Fagen version (maybe I have?).

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

All three David Palmer tracks on 'Thrill' are grate. Sadly I don't think he would have been able to cut it from 'Ecstasy' onwards.
I do like the idea of later Dan with a 'professional' vocalist tho.(Not to dis Fagen in any way)

― de, Friday, 21 May 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Michael McDonald?

― dave q, Friday, 21 May 2004 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

After 'Countdown', they stopped being a group

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 21 May 2004 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think they lost a thing (except, you know, on a very literal level). As for them not being a "group" anymore (arguable that they ever really were). If Steely Dan had continued to sound like they did on Countdown, they would have slid into soft-rock obscurity. Instead they just kept getting better and better, until they died just after Gaucho was released, leaving behind one of the most flawless discographies in rock.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Friday, 21 May 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Three votes for 'Dirty Work.' I'm not familiar with the rest of the record; any other greats on there?

― 57 7th (calstars), Friday, 21 May 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

1. Do It Again
2. Dirty Work
3. Kings
4. Midnight Cruises
5. Only A Fool Would Say That
6. Reelin' In The Years
7. Fire In The Hole
8. Brooklyn (Owes The Charmer Under Me)
9. Change Of The Guard
10. Turn That Heartbeat Over Again

I like them all, but I'd say tracks 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 and 8 are generally considered keepers.

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 21 May 2004 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

my roommate nearly killed me when i would play "dirty work" a lot a few summers ago. it's a great song. i don't think the vocal is a strong asset or a turn-off. it's just serviceable. he's obviously following a fagen guide vocal--very familiar phrasing, although the tone and "grain" of the voice is obv way different.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 21 May 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Yep, that whole damn album is great. But more of the same would have been boring.

amateur!st OTM.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Friday, 21 May 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeez, you guys are nuts. I'd take Fagen over that Palmer guy any day. Much more character and personality in his voice. Fagen is a unique rock voice, Palmer is generic and boring as hell.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 21 May 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

(Count me as one of the people who would like to hear a version of "Dirty Work" with Fagen singing. It's still a great tune, but Palmer doesn't do much for it.)

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 21 May 2004 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey no fair o.nate, it's only me who's nuts :-)

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 21 May 2004 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

That's true, I guess the thread has been more "Dirty Work" love that Palmer love.

As much as I like "DW", I still prefer "Only A Fool Would Say That", "Do It Again", and "Reeling in the Years" from CBAT.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 21 May 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

THE STEELY DAN SHOW (2000)

Boys and Girls
They come from all around
From dear old Stockholm
To Copenhagen town
Forget their troubles
In tasty riddum n' rime
So here you are
And now it's party time
Wrap your mind
Around this sound
And let the goodness ripple down
Goodbye to Lonely Street
You're in the Catbird Seat
At THE STEELY DAN SHOW

If you got backpacks
And pointy little shoes
Late-model roadsters
Or just those walkin' blues
A case of heartache
That you're too numb to fight
A secret sorrow
That keeps you up all night
Well don't you fret
It's not your fault
Just lay it all on Don and Walt
Just trip out on these hits
The groove that never quits
At THE STEELY DAN SHOW

So buy a program
And/or a hat
You don't pass up a deal like that
It's only promo stuff
But hey it's good enough
For THE STEELY DAN SHOW

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 21 May 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

that has no relevance to anything, I just like it

― Masked Gazza, Friday, 21 May 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Masked G. OTM about the keepers from "Thrill." I actually like "Turn That Heartbeat" myself, though.

I think that "Countdown to Ecstasy" is best of all the Dan's albums, the warmest...as warm as Dan got.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 22 May 2004 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

And I like it best cos it's the coldest so here we are

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Saturday, 22 May 2004 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

It's hard for me to pick a favorite Dan album - all the ones I've heard have songs on them I wouldn't want to do without. I'm tempted to say it's either Countdown or Pretzel Logic though.

― o. nate (onate), Saturday, 22 May 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

That David Palmer guy only served to detract from the greatness of 'Countdown'. He was no good.

Furthermore, Fagen's voice is completely great. How can you have Steely Dan without Fagen's voice? WTF!!!

― Debito (Debito), Saturday, 22 May 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

WTF!!! WTF!

Sorry, I just needed to express this emphatically.

― Debito (Debito), Saturday, 22 May 2004 02:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, judging from the hits (which are all I know), yes. I never liked "Hey 19" or "Rikki" or any of their other hits aside from those first two singles. (Don't like "I.G.Y." either.) But since their singles are all I know, my opinion obviously isn't worth a lot. I wonder: Is the rest of "Can't Buy a Thrill" as good as "Do It Again" and "Reelin In The Years"?

(Oh yeah - I kinda like that live "Bodhisattva" [sp?], but mostly for the drunken, rambling intro. :)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Saturday, 22 May 2004 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Is the rest of "Can't Buy a Thrill" as good as "Do It Again" and "Reelin In The Years"?

Some of it is, some of it isn't quite. Though it's hard for me to imagine what a person who doesn't like "I.G.Y." or "Hey Nineteen" would consider good.

― o. nate (onate), Saturday, 22 May 2004 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I never said they're weren't good, I just said I didn't care for 'em! (OK,sorry, I did use the word "good" but that was the wrong word to use - I was just being lazy.) All those sophisticated, jazzy chords & changes usuallly failed to hold my attention, which is to say that their stuff lacked hooks. But that's my problem and not theirs - hooks are where you find them. Their problem was a periodic shortage of energy: Too many midtempo songs that owed more to cocktail music than to rock 'n roll sounded . "Do It Again" had the hooks (again, hooks are in the ear of the beholder), "Reelin'" was refreshingly uptempo, and they both had masterful guitar/electric sitarsoloing by both guitar and electric sitar. And interestingly, those two are the only Steely Dan songs that get regular airplay on classic-rock radio, whereas "Rikki" etc. are claimed by the soft-rock and adult-contemporary stations. Make of that what you will. So in conclusion, I shouldn't have used the word "good", "catchy" or "accessible" or "rockin'" or whatever would have been better.

There, that should "clear" things up!

And for the record, Captain Beefheart and minutemen and Thelonious Monk are among my most-loved performers, so I have absolutely no problem with arcane, atypical chords. Just not Steely Dan's.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Saturday, 22 May 2004 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Dammit, I forgot: Even as much as I loved the minutemen, the only song on Double Nickels On The Dime I don't like (and always skip over) is their cover of "Dr. Wu"

And please ignore my use of the pointless word "sounded" above - I meant to delete it. Bonehead.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Saturday, 22 May 2004 05:59 (twenty-two years ago)

B-But the Minutemen version of 'Doctor Wu' is one of the best cover versions of all time!!

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Saturday, 22 May 2004 10:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I hear ya, MVB. That's definitely true that those later songs are a lot less 'rock' than the earlier stuff. So I guess your appreciation for that stuff would be a a reflection of your tolerance for stuff that doesn't rock as much. I like both styles myself. Sometimes I'm in the mood for something with more sturm und drang, sometimes I want something that goes down smooth musically - spiked though it may be with Fagen's jaundiced worldview.

― o. nate (onate), Saturday, 22 May 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I had always heard that Can't Buy A Thrill was comprised of semi-leftovers from their ill-fated run as early '70s "Brill Building"-style hitmakers geared for artists like Three Dog Night, which is why it's the most "rock" of the Dan records; when that venture didn't pay off, they decided that they were the only ones who could do the songs justice, and away they went.

― Erick H (Erick H), Saturday, 22 May 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Are those early tracks any good?

― de, Saturday, 22 May 2004 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Pre-"Can't Buy A Thrill" -- pretty rough stuff. Go to a used store and grab "11 Tracks Of Whack" from Walter Becker for some "lost" Dan tracks.

― Erick H (Erick H), Sunday, 23 May 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

"Brooklyn (Owes The Charmer Under Me)" is currently rocking my world.

― Baaderonixx, born again in Xixax (baaderonixx), Thursday, 16 February 2006 09:14 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, they gained more than they lost by ditching Palmer, but "Brooklyn" and "Dirty Work" are soft-rock perfection.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 16 February 2006 10:29 (twenty years ago)

Well, they lost David Palmer. Musically they got better though, not neccessarily already on "Countdown To Ecstacy", but certainly from "Pretzel Logic" onwards, peaking on "Aja".

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 16 February 2006 11:31 (twenty years ago)

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