Will Record Stores Have All But Vanished In Ten Years From Now?

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Online music service Napster launched this week in the UK, predicting the demise of the High Street record shop within 10 years. Can the record shop survive in the digital age?

Record stores have been an integral part of popular culture since the days of the first rock and roll singles in the 1950s.

The hang-out of choice for teenagers over many decades, the contemporary record store has evolved over time.

From specialist independent shops offering rare vinyl to expansive megastores selling CDs, DVDs and iPods, the record store remains at the heart of the music buying experience.

But the with the launch of Napster in the UK this week, are record stores under threat?

'Experience music'

Chris Gorog, chairman of Napster parent company Roxio, predicted that the launch was so significant it would spell the end of High Street record stores within a decade.

High Fidelity

There is a happy relationship between people experimenting with tracks online and then buying CDs

Mino Russo, Fopp
Napster offers 700,000 songs for download at a cost of 99p per track on top of a £9.95 a month subscription.

Brad Duea, president of Napster, said: "We feel that most people, when they experience music at Napster online, will enjoy it, but it doesn't mean the high street retailers will close their doors tomorrow."

But what about the day after tomorrow?

It has certainly been a difficult time for music retailers world-wide in recent years.

US retailer Tower Records filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection earlier this year, and shut down all of its European operations last year.

In the UK, WH Smith announced it was to dump the CD single in February, while independent record chain Andy's shut down all of its stores nationwide at the end of 2003.

Global slump

A global slump in CD sales has hit record shops hard, with online piracy blamed by much of the industry.

Certainly, it would be ironic for Napster as a legal service to do as much damage to the retailers as Napster the illegal service did a few years ago.

Breakdown of UK album sales

Music stores (HMV/Virgin etc) - 47%
Chains (WH Smiths/Woolworths etc) - 16%
Supermarkets - 21.6%
Mail order - 3.9%
Internet sales (Amazon/Play.com etc) - 7%
Other - 4.5%
Downloads - Not yet registered
Source: British Phonographic Industry
Dennis Henderson, chief operating officer at Virgin Retail, said online music would not shut down Virgin Megastores.

He told BBC News Online: "Online sales are another channel for people to buy music.

"People will always want to buy a physical product and to collect it themselves.

"There is a peculiar relationship people have with their record and DVD collections. Downloads do not have that."

Music retailers admit they are having to change the way they work.

"We are diversifying," said Mr Henderson.

"We have to offer a whole range of entertainment-related products. But we are still expanding our music offering."

'Work harder'

He said discounted singles on online music services and discounted chart albums at supermarkets were putting extra pressure on record stores.

"It raises the bar. We have to compete and work harder for our profit through selling other things."

According to latest figures from the UK Official Chart Company, legal downloads of singles currently account for about 5% of all single sales.

The company is still looking at the possibility of including those download sales figures into the official chart countdown.

While giants like HMV and Virgin will ride out the transition period, small independent stores may struggle, he said.

Napster is already up and running in the US
"If you are a smaller store, with a smaller selection, with smaller turnover you are always threatened by a migration to other channels.

"There has been a reduction in the number of independent record stores in the UK."

Mino Russo, head of marketing at independent record shop chain Fopp, said: "We are still selling a lot of CDs despite the declining market."

He said his own experience with digital music reinforced his belief that record stores could flourish in the digital age.

"I bought an iPod and thought my consumption of CDs would go down - but I'm buying more.

'Enormous value'

"At the moment there is a happy relationship between people experimenting with tracks online and then buying CDs as well."

Record stores were still offering customers enormous value for money, he said.

"Download tracks are £1 a time - but we sell a range of albums at £5," he said.

At a recent music industry conference, Kim Bayley, secretary general of the British Association of Record Dealers, said digital music accounted for 10% of sales in the short term and would account for 25% in the long term.

Speaking in a personal capacity, she told the conference: "Not everyone wants to download their music, and although it will become more important, it is just another format."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3734993.stm

― Musichound, Friday, 21 May 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

no, they won't disappear.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

people still buy and service typewriters.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

the other day I saw a guy on this:

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris Gorog is a self important jackass prone to outrageous unfounded predictions. I'll play the same game: I predict Napster will disappear within 10 months.

― jeffery mac, Friday, 21 May 2004 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

But there wont be as many as today. You may only have 1 or 2 big mega stores in cities and no local shops in towns. Thats not a great thing to look forward to
Asda,Tesco etc seem to be where most people buy cds these days. So perhaps they will be the ones who survive.
Does anyone like the idea of having to visit a supermarket for all their record shopping?

I agree Napster will die long before record shops do though.

― Musichound, Friday, 21 May 2004 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone like the idea of having to visit a supermarket for all their record shopping?

yes I can crack open a coke and eat pizza while looking over LP sleeves. Sounds great.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

the way the music died: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/music/

looks good!

― rtusrtu, Friday, 21 May 2004 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree that record stores aren't going anywhere. Look at this way: the comics industry is waaaaaaay more fucked than the record industry, and there's still comic book shops all over the place. The worst that could happen is that record stores will become more and more like comic book shops.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait, what's wrong with the comics industry? They always had a smaller fanbase and they don't have as big a problem with piracy?

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, not like comic shops in terms of products sold! Like comic shops as in: catering to an ever-dwindling consumer base. But it's going to take many many many years for record sales to get the point of the comics industry, so dry your eyes.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Thank you, Mr. Skinner. Now beat your covocalist.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Matthew have you ever been in a record store? Most record store workers and customers already look and act like this:

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't directly answering Loop Loop Loop, by the way! We typed our answers at the same time.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

This is like the paperless office isn't it?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

most record store employees like whatever major label promo shit they get and still think they have better taste than me:

Yeah Yeah Yeahs
The Rapture
Mars Volta
etc!

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Hstencil, I did say that the worst thing that could happen is that record stores would become more like comic shops!

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

The consumer base for comics is going down, but with games like Magic:The Gathering and Pokemon and Yu GI Oh et al becoming more and more popular, most comic shops have been moving more towards gaming shops. Record stores don't have the luxury of another product like that.

That said, the idea that their won't be record stores in 10 years is a little absurd, but only time will tell.

― stephen morris (stephen morris), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's more likely is that the better small local shops will be the ones that survive because they have a "face" and are part of a community.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

COMIC BOOK SHOPS AND RECORD STORES ALREADY ARE THE SAME THING.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Record stores don't have the luxury of another product like that.

That's not totally true - lots of record stores sell books, dvds, clothing, etc in addition to records.

COMIC BOOK SHOPS AND RECORD STORES ALREADY ARE THE SAME THING.

Ha, now it's my turn to ask you if you've actually been in a comics shop!

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.newbury.com/

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

NOW'S MY TURN TO ASK YOU WHETHER YOU'VE EVER BEEN OUTSIDE NEW YORK STATE:

"The Great Escape: A comic shop, a record store, and so much more!
A Nashville tradition since 1977, The Great Escape is committed to providing you with the best selection and the best service when it comes to your entertainment needs. If you like music, comics, movies, video games, and other fun stuff, get ready to escape into paradise!"

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

there's one in Louisville too! And Newbury Comics as so kindly linked by JON WILLIAMZ!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but there's already books, dvds, clothing, etc stores. With comic stores, they found a market that was untapped and made it their own.

― stephen morris (stephen morris), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

HOT TOPIC

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, my searching is over. Jon wins.

― stephen morris (stephen morris), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:32 (twenty-two years ago)

COMIC BOOK SHOPS AND RECORD STORES ALREADY ARE THE SAME THING.

I agree with Stence.

Mondo Kim's to thread.

And yay for namecheckin' the muthafuckin Great Escape from my home town. Best rekkid store in town and also best comics shop in town. (And yeah, I frequent both kinds of stores.)

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

By the sounds of it, the Great Escape warrants a road trip for me this summer.

― stephen morris (stephen morris), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

can't believe I forgot Mondo Kim's as I was just there last night.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Stephen, The Great Escape is a terrific store. The only other place in Nashville that sells [used] vinyl (Phonoluxe records) is no where near as good, has slightly higher prices and isn't also a comic store.

Great Escape also sells old magazines, videogames and other shit.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

My dad is building floor-to-ceiling CD shelves for our new home. Sometimes I think it may be a big mistake.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Friday, 21 May 2004 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

but Mondo Kims is hardly a comic book shop. Carrying a selection of a few of the hipper titles does not a comc shop make. However, I'd rather go to a record store that carried Acute Records and Fantagraphics then to a giant record store that carried Acute Records and Limp Bizkit and a comic book store that carried Fantagraphics and Marvel or whatever. Thing is, as a comics geek, there's loads more I'm interested in then JUST Fantagraphics and Drawn and Quarterly, so I do have to go to Jim Hanley's Universe and St. Marks Comics.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 21 May 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't wait until we FINALLY totally eliminate the need to ever leave our life-pod-- ahem, houses!

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Record stores and comic book stores will still be in business in ten years thanks to DAN SELZER!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Consider Austin. A couple years ago you had Sound Exchange, Waterloo Records, 33 Degrees, Tower Records, Technophilia, Antone's. After this summer you will have Waterloo Records and Antone's. The rest are or will be gone.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

if you had any idea how much money I spend on crap...

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I've seen you dj, Dan, so I know how much crap you buy!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

OH SNAP! Trust me, all the crap I play I got in the dollar section... I'm not on eBay bidding on Debbie Deb records.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah but those dollar records are like high-profit-margin city!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

There are an assload of record stores in Seattle. In fact one just opened a few blocks from my house. Since I moved here, I have seen a few open and only one close down. The one that closed did so reportedly because the owner was a bit of a fuck-up. I've heard he was drunk or high half the time he was working at the store, and I've also heard that he went through a really shitty divorce. Regardless of the real reason, I'm under the impression that the market for records wasn't what sent his store down the toilet.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm, I don't think the Great Escape is nearly as great as it sounds (although, the 1/2 Price store that's only open on weekends is great for obscure titles on the cheap). Phonoluxe is worse.

The only record store in Nashville worth a damn is Grimey's, more for the staff and less for the selection. It's easy to get trapped in there for several hours of conversation/debate.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to say that while record stores in NYC that sell NEW records are closing due to rent issues and disinterest, the used record store field seems to be booming in NYC. Larrys, Eat and Academy all in North Brooklyn, for instance.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Johnny Fever you also like the WRENS.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan your theory ignores Shrine going out of business, though Manhattan rents could also support a Brooklyn-only theory.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Grimey's is pretty cool, though I still do think the Great Escape is a noble thing.

Phonoluxe used to be a lot better when I was in high school. I'm not sure what happened to them. I think part of the problem is that they pay attention to ebay when pricing stuff even though they don't have nearly the market that ebay does (Nashville local does not equal the entire online world), so they end up pricing stuff higher than anybody's willing to pay for it.

I have only been to the Great Escape weekend 1/2 price store a couple times, but both times I have found some cool stuff.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

The kids these days aren't interested in music; they're all too busy playing with their pocket calculators.

That said I do think that high street stores, if not specialist shops could disappear within a decade. Specialist shops could come under threat in time though, since one of the big plusses of internet-based music shops is that it costs the company next to nothing to "re-issue" currently unavailable back catalogue items; just a few bobs' worth of hard drive space, as compared with a potentially unprofitable repressing followed by weak sales.

This is a careful note though, I've made the mistake before of posting things on the internet and finding them still there ten years later!

― Keith Watson (kmw), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Johnny Fever you also like the WRENS.

I like the newest album, nothing more. What does that have to do with the Great Escape again?

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

nothing, but has everything to do with your suspect taste!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 21 May 2004 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, right-o!

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 21 May 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

and now there's another record store in williamsburg! Sound Fix or something, bedford and n 12th, open for 3 weeks. Very very Other Music-esque, to the point they could probably sue. I bought Meredith Monk's Turtle Dreams on unplayed vinyl for 10 bucks. Not bad, not great, didn't really look at the rest of the used vinyl to judge price. Mostly new CDs and used CDs, and yes, they carry Metal Urbain and the Metal Boys.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 22 May 2004 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm boycotting Sound Fix.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 May 2004 05:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I would like to see record stores become the opium dens of the 21st century. Lots of headphones, chaise lounges, hookah pipes, private rooms, fawning...pay for entrance (hourly) and full access to music in an atmosphere far more exotic and hi-fi than any of us can afford in our own homes. Vinyl, tubes, conversation...yesssssssssss.

― Evanston Wade (EWW), Monday, 24 May 2004 05:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I can fully believe that there will slowly be more second-hand record stores and less new ones. It's only CDs that are made obsolete by digital formats - vinyl lives on. There are no CD enthusiasts out there, but plenty of vinyl ones.

And owing to the nature of vinyl, being able to look at the physical product you are buying is innately better than buying online (cf the variable interpretations of what VG+ means on eBay).

Also, the hipsters all want to crate-dig for obscure old records rather than buying new stuff which is all on slsk anyhow.

So all the cultural trends mitigate against HMV and for Dave's Secondhand Record Emporium.

And Evanston - ever been in a dance music specialist store? Kind of like that...

Also - does this mean we'll see more places like the new Smallfish and that other shop in Camden where it's a combination cafe/record shop

― Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:07 (twenty-two years ago)

four years pass...

fuck you all

http://www.jeandeux.com

born big and getting bigger

now with new SKOTROK freshness

― danbunny, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:08 (seventeen years ago)

hahaha, YAY! my goal is to open by national record store day!!!

― scott seward, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:11 (seventeen years ago)

kudos to you and your bro
(xpost)

― moe greene dolphin street (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:13 (seventeen years ago)

sam goodys is bad
tower is fallen
virgin is a whore
etherea is a vapor

― danbunny, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:15 (seventeen years ago)

The number of record stores today is at an all-time bottom. Already, in the UK, sales of portable CD players are increasing again. Music geeks in particular find it too time consuming and HD consuming to have their entire music collections on their computers, so they tend to go back to CDs again. The majority of the kids will still go for digital files (they will probably be lossless in 10 years, so that the sound quality issue is no more an issue), but older people and those with really big record collections will still prefer CD.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:23 (seventeen years ago)

no, people with really big RECORD collections will still prefer LP.

congrats to Scott!
How far is Greenfield from Providence? I will need to drive up.

― ian, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:25 (seventeen years ago)

skot and dan are bros?! :O

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:26 (seventeen years ago)

where the fuck have you been dude

― ian, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:27 (seventeen years ago)

still kinda bummed i have never gotten up to the original john doe btw.

― ian, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:27 (seventeen years ago)

How far is Greenfield from Providence? I will need to drive up.
Ha, I live in RI too, so I already Mapquested it. It's about 145 miles (2 hours, 40 minutes) from me. Closer for you, though.

― Jazzbo, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:32 (seventeen years ago)

well, i'm actually in warwick. not for living, but visiting family for the week.

sad that RI only has one or two decent record stores left, depending on whether you count Luke's...

― ian, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:34 (seventeen years ago)

where the fuck have you been dude
― ian, Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:27 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

apparantly on the non-vinyl-porn threads where ppl don't talk about that?

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:43 (seventeen years ago)

but do you read BUNNYBRAINS threads?

― ian, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:45 (seventeen years ago)

I predict Napster will disappear within 10 months.

― jeffery mac, Friday, May 21, 2004 5:07 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― NotEnough, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 15:50 (seventeen years ago)

congrats to skot and dan : )

always happy to have a new record store in the world

― stank pony (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 25 March 2009 16:10 (seventeen years ago)

sad that RI only has one or two decent record stores left, depending on whether you count Luke's...
There's a decent, albeit fairly small, store in Warren: one of the In Your Ear shops (formerly Zingg Music). They recently made a shift to sell more vinyl (still offer CDs, too) — and are doing pretty well from what I hear. Recently they diversified more by creating playlists for local businesses, which are then streamed through StreamGuys.com.

― Jazzbo, Wednesday, 25 March 2009 16:33 (seventeen years ago)

basically i think every store that was CD focused is in trouble, with a few exceptions, and stores that specialize in vinyl are doing okay.

― stank pony (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 25 March 2009 16:35 (seventeen years ago)

yay scott n dan - wish I could visit!

― Featuring Ben Jones as Geir's Cooter (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 March 2009 16:36 (seventeen years ago)

i just got sum john storm roberts records in...he used to live up th way in tivoli

― danbunny, Thursday, 26 March 2009 01:43 (seventeen years ago)

Never knew Scott and Dan were brothers either, congrats to you both, love to make it up there to spend some $ some day.

― Mark, Thursday, 26 March 2009 03:21 (seventeen years ago)

i just got in original u.k. pressings of scritti politti's skanc bloc 7 inch and their st.pancras/rough trade 4-song 7-inch with "messthetics" on it. will be selling soon cheaply to buy lunch and local growlers of fresh beer.

http://www.austinliquors.com/Images/opa.jpg

― scott seward, Thursday, 26 March 2009 12:39 (seventeen years ago)

there are no more record shops where i live. the only place you can buy a CD is in Sainsbury who have the Top 20 Hits For Mum and Dad on display.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 26 March 2009 12:49 (seventeen years ago)

in today:streetnoise-julie driscoll brian auger
relayer-yes
tony bennett bill evans album
ultra violets-hot parts soundtrack
kinks greatest hits-mono
lee morgan-double 1972 lp
taj mahal-recycling..
keith jarrett-luminessence
bob dylan-basement tapes,new morning,blood on the tracks
wailing souls-wild suspense

― danbunny, Thursday, 26 March 2009 15:48 (seventeen years ago)

i just got sum john storm roberts records in...he used to live up th way in tivoli

― danbunny, Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:43 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark

hey dan, what exactly did you get from him? im v interested if youd be willing to mail things...

― 69, Thursday, 26 March 2009 15:50 (seventeen years ago)

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