To the Paid Professionals of ILM

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
You are paid to write about music and derive most of your income from it. How old are you now? How do you see your career path evolving? Is there an end in sight, or does everyone want to end up making a Christgau of it?

frankE (frankE), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

You are paid to write about music and derive most of your income from it.

You might want to reconsider that last assumption for a number of us here.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

good point. in that case, what do you do for your *real* income? and how much time is dedicated to writing?

frankE (frankE), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: library work. Time dedicated to music writing a week: varies depending on the assignments. 33 years old, have no plans for a career path as such in terms of music writing, have always kept J. D. Considine's advice from eleven years back about how hard freelancing full time is.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

At the moment the rest of my income comes from working in a record store, I devote as much time to writing as I'm asked to, ie I take any work I can get, generally, unless it's really crappy and advertorial seeming like an interview with some no mark band I have no interest in. But even then I normally take work.

I don't think I want to do it forever, I've no idea what else I'll end up doing though. Maybe write for TV or do radio work, in the music side of things aswell as regards radio. Not sure. Maybe write about non musical stuff too.

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

For a while I derived all of my income from music journalism but I got to despise it pretty quickly. Took a part-time job with a car sharing organization and now dedicate half my time (and whatever's left over at the end of the day) to writing. like it much better this way, if for nothing else, simply having other humans to talk to every other day.

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I honestly don't see myself doing anything else for the foreseeable future. Make of that whatever you like.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

As always, Ned is the template:

Real roof-over-head income: non-writing newspaper work.
Time dedicated to music writing a week: this week, z-i-l-c-h. Next week, maybe 20 hours.
Age: 26 and 50/52nds years old.
Career aspirations: To stop doing this to myself.
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: 20 to 50%

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: full-time administrative assistance (45 hrs/week), part-time copy editing (5-10 hrs/week).
Time dedicated to music writing a week: typically 10-15 hours.
Age: 31.
Career aspirations: To write music-related books (bios, lyrical analyses, sociological musings, etc).
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: 5%
End in sight: Nah, pretty much make a Christgau of it. Or more precisely, a Marsh.

Joseph McCombs, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: editor of a porn magazine.
Time dedicated to music writing a week: probably 20 hours, but I'm writing a book right now.
Age: 32.
Career aspirations: to write books (some about music, some not; some fiction, some not).
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: 20-30%.
End in sight: No, but I am trying to shift to writing about less overtly teen-aimed genres to avoid being a 40-year-old man who gets paid to tell 15-year-olds what's cool.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: music editor, Seattle Weekly.
Time dedicated to music writing a week: 40 hrs/wk writing and editing for the paper (including troubleshooting, et. al.); freelance writing, about 15 hours/wk on average on top of that, more if it's something like a Voice assingment.
Age: 29
Career aspirations: Until I got it, this job or its equivalent was it. So maybe I'll want to write books full time after a while, but for now I'm pretty happy.
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: all of it

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Roof-over-head income: managing editor of a weekly
Time dedicated to music writing a week: if "music writing" can be broadened to "arts writing," 50 hrs a week
Age: 25
Career aspiration: not have a day job
Percentage of my income derived from writing: 100%
End in sight: having a day job, yes. writing, no.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

some people here are paid professionals because they are musicians.

teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Job: web developerish adminish stuff
Time dedicated to music writing: between nothing and 15hrs, depending.
Time dedicated to other writing: At the moment, lots (drama).
Age: 23
Ambition: Lacking
% of income: minimal
end?: nah.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

let me also qualify why I came to despise freelance writing about music on a full-time basis. i was simply writing really boring reviews (like, sometimes 10 a day) about really boring bands, simply to make rent. i figured that if i had to do boring work, i might as well make a bit more money off it and stop wasting the mental resources on lame shit. oh, and i just turned 27 last week. happy belated b-day to myself.

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: music editor, Village Voice.
Time dedicated to music writing (actually editing) a week: 60 hrs/wk? Something like that. I lose track these days. No time to freelance; barely any time to write for my own publication.
Age: 43.
Career aspirations: I'm an extremely unambitious person. This wasn't a career aspiration in the first place; it was an accident, as were the two books I wrote, and all the magazines I wrote for (full time) as a freelancer for 13 years. So I will probably keep this job as long as I can get away with it. After that, who knows? I would assume I would keep writing about music, in some capacity, and make less money than I do now. It's not like I know how to do anything else.
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: all of it

chuck, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(Actually, that's not all true, I just remembered, since my first few years as a freelance writer most of my income came from being an officer in the United States Army. Don't expect to go back to doing *that* any time soon, though. And I *have* written about non-music stuff like zoning commissions and sewage boards and junior varsity football and police bomb squads and lazer eye surgery for money for actual newspapers, albeit a long time ago, and even have a journalism degree, so that would always be a possibility I suppose. Plus I make a couple hundred dollars a year DJ-ing I guess, if that counts.)

chuck, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: magazine editor
Time dedicated to music writing a week: Between editing and writing for my own mag, freelancing here and there, blogging, say 50 hrs. That includes a lot of avoiding-work time, though. Like now.
Age: 34
Career aspirations: To be a 40-year-old man who gets paid to tell 15-year-olds what's cool. If not, those other old fuckers'll get it wrong. Also, to write a highly acclaimed literary novel and then spend my entire book tour mocking people for reading fiction (aka lies) instead of more vital and contemporary forms of art like rock criticism.
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: All of it, minus sales of promo CDs.

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

>I am trying to shift to writing about less overtly teen-aimed genres to avoid being a 40-year-old man who gets paid to tell 15-year-olds what's cool.<

Yeah, Keith kinda beat me to it, but I was gonna tell Phil that he really needs to get over this. (Though I do hear that *Tracks pays quite their freelancers quite promptly, for whatever that's worth. Plus there's always the possibility of *NY Times op-ed pieces!)

chuck, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: working as a press officer/publicist
Time dedicated to music writing a week: varies, lots of evenings, weekends a lot of the time
Age: 25
Career aspirations: To be a writer at a magazine, not sure how viable this is though. would like to write music books, film scripts or novels, but am too lazy, and cant seem to be bothered.
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: 35 to 50%

thesplooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Just like I believe critics should be genre specialists, I believe that at some point they become too old to write about certain types of music, because (it is to be hoped) they're no longer in touch with the overwrought teen dramatics of those genres. Avenged Sevenfold, Bleeding Through and Dashboard Confessional are good examples, to me, of bands that would probably best be analyzed/chronicled by folks close in age to the folks who are weeping along with every lyric, rather than some jaded fuck yakking away with all the other hacks in the VIP balcony. I think it's a big ego-driven fallacy of writers to assume they're always gonna be able to relate to everything. I know I've been outraced by a lot of new metal stuff, particularly in the ultra-mathy post-hardcore area, and I don't waste my time (or a hypothetical reader's) contorting myself trying to get with it. Nor do I condemn it. I just ignore it. I know some other writer will take my place, and probably do a better job than me. So I write about stuff I understand, and like. And frankly, if Nick Hornby stuck to doing that, he wouldn't be the figure of scorn that he is.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: freelance music and movie writing, mooching off wife
Time dedicated to music writing a week: I've never counted, but I consider it full-time, which in this odd profession could mean 9am to 2am one day, and nothing the next. I set my schedule around deadlines, and work harder some days to free up others.
Age: 29
Career aspirations: I told my (now) wife when I graduated from school that I a) didn't want a job that required me to dress up b) didn't want a job that required me to wake up early and c) wanted a job that at least subsidized my music and movie collecting and concert going with free music and movies and concerts. All three were incentive enough to make me hussle, and a good job with the Onion after school didn't hurt. Tenacity plus luck divided by laziness=what I do.
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: all of it, which isn't as much as my wife makes, and which may decrease when we have a kid in November, though I still think I'll be able to work around all the crying, screaming, and pooping. Not too different from every day as it is ! (ba-dump) Any other writers with kids here? How hard is this to pull off?

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: sales/writing for educational company, children's books, speaking gigs at schools

Time dedicated to music writing a week: depends, from 5-15 hrs

Age: almost 38

Career aspirations: at this point, laughable.

Percentage of my income derived from music writing: 1%-2%.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

>I write about stuff I understand, and like. And frankly, if Nick Hornby stuck to doing that, he wouldn't be the figure of scorn that he is.<

Yes he would. That's basically what he already does. (I'm not even going to get into how wrong you are about how genres should be judged by the demographic they're made for. George Smith and Metal Mike Saunders have written better about emo and teenpop than just about any critics I've seen half their age. And the most thoughtful writing about rap and metal and country and techno tends to be done by generalists, not specialists, for the simple reason that generalists are much more likely the challenge the genres, not just toe the line.)

chuck, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

b-but chuck, specialists can challenge the genre too? i mean... stairway to hell to thread.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

hoisted on his own petard!

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

chuck eddy is FAR
from being a specialist
no petard hoisted!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: (public) radio DJ

Time dedicated to music writing a week: until the start of this month, 10-15 hrs. I'm on strike right now (seriously), as the publisher of the magazine I work for more or less exclusively hasn't paid me yet for anything I've done this year. (Almost all freelancers at the magazine have stopped working for them, interesting times for all parties involved)

Age: almost 33

Career aspirations: stay on the radio, maybe at some point move into management. Also (my goal for this year): get into real DJ'ing

Percentage of my income derived from music writing: 30%, when I get paid that is :-(

JoB (JoB), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

of course specialists can be critical of the genre they specialize in. but they don't always. I happen to know that not all of the albums that Sounds Of Death magazine have given 666 Fucking Skulls to have deserved that distinction.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

that should read: but they aren't always.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

JoB, I feel your pain. I once waited a year to get paid from a place I had been a regular contributor to for six years and everytime I contacted them, they acted as if I was the one doing something wrong! I lost a few friends over that one.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: kibitzing on ILXor, didn't you know they've got salaries for "special" posters?
Time dedicated to music writing a week: probably about 90 hours a week, if you count time I've got music playing while I'm doing other things (cooking, reading, etc.)--actual dealing w/ editors/assignments is maybe 20 hrs./week, but I spend a lot of time just listening to stuff.
Age: 34
Career aspirations: Writing more books, I think, of various kinds--there are a couple of proposals in the works right now. I would like to be one of those rare 40-year-olds that 15-year-olds specifically trust to tell them what's cool (cf. John Peel, Greil Marcus), or even better trust to make cool things (cf. Neil Gaiman, Jim Woodring).
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: probably about 70% (the rest is from writing about comics and, lately, about social networks).

Douglas (Douglas), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

i would venture that generalists can be just as ill informed of a genre as specialists. just see the many mainstream, rock-bred critics in the UK who know next to nothing about 'black music'.

thesplooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Phil, if young people necessarily had the best perspective on their experience then Michelle Branch would be a greater songwriter than Chuck Berry. Do some writers lose focus as they get older? Sure. Should a forty-year-old feel *obliged* to write about music for 15-year-olds? Of course not. (Though I think that if they don't keep their ears open to it they're missing out.) But if you can do it well, then, duh, you can do it well. And there are plenty of writers who are out of touch before they're 25. Or 20 even.

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Much more importantly, we need 40-year-old porn editors telling us which 15 year-olds are hot! Keep up the good work!

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Michelle Branch IS a
better songwriter than Chuck
Berry! (Well, now. Duh.)

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

(Well, of course I wasn't saying that *all generalists are better than all specialists. Though I tend not to trust critics who aren't at least *curious* enough to explore music outside their chosen speciality, and though it's idiotic to think genres don't impinge on *each other*, and though the specialties are all pretty arbitrary to begin with, the truth is that there are both hacks and geniuses on both sides of the equation. Just like there are hacks and geniuses of all ages.) (Though hopefully, by the time they're 40, most hacks have given up, or been weeded out. But of course many don't, and aren't.)

(And yeah, if we're gonna count all the time we listen to or argue about or dance to music as part of our work hours, which maybe we should, then you can probably just about double my 60.)

xposts galore

chuck, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

(And yeah, if we're gonna count all the time we listen to or argue about or dance to music as part of our work hours, which maybe we should, then you can probably just about
double my 60.)

I was thinking about this in another context the other day. I've been doing stand-up comedy lately. While I generally spend about an hour before I go on getting ready, and then about 5 or 6 hours a week actively writing material, I actually spend 24 hours a day (maybe minus sleeping time) gathering fodder, practicing mugging, developing fetishistic idiosyncracies, blahblahblah infinitum.
And since I've only had one paying gig so far, I've probably finally found a less lucrative career than reviewing records.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

While I generally spend about an hour before I go on getting ready, and then about 5 or 6 hours a week actively writing material, I actually spend 24 hours a day (maybe minus sleeping time) gathering fodder, practicing mugging, developing fetishistic idiosyncracies, blahblahblah infinitum.

half the professions in the world to thread. if you're in, say, construction, then you spend your "off" time looking at buildings or reading about buildings or thinking about them. if you're a salesman, you spend your off time making contacts and checking out the competition and all that other stuff. etc.

so i'm going to have a hard time feeling sorry for all the hours y'all have to spend listening to records and dancing!

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

practicing mugging

your money or your wife!!!

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

"(Though hopefully, by the time they're 40, most hacks have given up, or been weeded out. But of course many don't, and aren't.)"

Nope, at that age they've just gotten hired by a daily paper.

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

hahaha bitterness!

christhamrin (christhamrin), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Nope, at that age they've just gotten hired by a daily paper.
What happens when you're hired by a daily paper at 23 (as part of a much ballyhooed chasing of the coveted younger demographic, but what actually happens is the already-there-guy, himself approaching 40, targets in on the kiddies, leaving the young dude to cover the fogey beat--you'd turn to comedy too)?

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

ps, FCC, i wasn't griping at all. Just, I mean, the work that people see is, is like, so slim (though probably in my case it's more than whatever the avg. might be) compared to the work DONE.
But yeah, boo hoo, consideration blahblahblah.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost (with myself) does that mean I'm born washed-up?

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Some people have good job experiences. And some people have bad job experiences. And some people have both good and bad job experiences. Don't let the bastards get you down. Hang in ther baby, It's almost friday.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Bitter? Ha, my job's cake compared to the grind of a daily!

"Does that mean I'm born washed-up?"
Don't be so hard on yourself. You had 23 good years in you before you were washed up!

Seriously, that does sound like a drag. "We need someone to cover John Hiatt at the State Fair."

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

John Hiatt would be a step-up. Try Roy Clark.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Roy sure can pick though. And grin. He's got some fine teeth. And a nice head of hair.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, now stretch that out to 700 wds.

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Keith and HB OTM. (Heh, don't think I've used that before). I can really see how the freedom of a dailies could backfire, since I can't necessarily rely as much on close editing, leisurely deadlines, or the support knowledge other outlets might offer to help me out should I write something particularly uninspired or, God forbid, just plain wrong. But to me that's part of the fun: trying to write for a broad audience while keeping it interesting enough for those who know about more than what's on MTV. Or often, as is the case with a daily, writing about what's on MTV when the readership has no clue!

And thanks Chuck. I'll try to think of some good'n's to ask you.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

don't write for a living. it will only end in tears.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Way to kill the thread, Eeyore.

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i haven't had new glasses in four years! if i break my arm they will have to amputate it! i eat out of trashcans! i sold pints of blood to buy a space heater last winter!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

reduce walking-to-the-playpen time by keeping it in your office

Infant shrieks + the Byrds = now I understand why you're the only one who insists Died Pretty are heavy metal.

Okay, couldn't resist. It's extremely impressive that you could feed those hungry mouths with Kix (the band, not the cereal) and Truth & Janey writings. Especially with strongo eating out of trashcans.

I'm 34, I write 3-4 hours a day and piss away the rest on ILM, housekeeping, shaving, running around, taking unnecessary trips, drinking, and also cooking. I worked temp jobs while freelancing until 1995, then entered I would say was the prime of my music journalist life, writing under constant deadline for about 20 magazines -- the punier the band in the bigger the magazine, the better. Hooray for getting Doo Rag, Drink Me, and Miss Murgatroid into Request, Mortiis in Details, Caroliner a full color page in AP, Thinking Fellers in CD Review, Napalm Death into Snowboarding, etc. Each successful pitch like that felt like a seditious victory. But at some point I had to channel my professional ambitions away from writing about music, and that would be the level where the celebrity system dominates. I decided I'd rather write about blimps and cell phone tower camoflage for Wired. Obviously Spin covers about 16 bands, Rolling Stone about 30, and my editor at Blender told me to [paraphrased] write using a box of Crayolas. I said, oh the 64-color set with the pencil sharpener, and he replied no, more like the 16 box. If I were Raymond Scott, I'd write a javascript program to generate that kind of review automatically, but if I wanted to make money by killing myself I would have gone to law school. If you're resourceful in what you write and how you live, you can really enjoy yourself freelancing.

Along the way I paid the rent as a bluegrass fiddler, videogame test pilot, condenast web producer, world trade center financial minion, colgate international marketing powerpoint slide creator, modern dance composer, DJ, newsletter editor, vegetable chopper, scavenger, music producer, mafia bartender (one night only, but it was fun), and window dresser at Urban Outfitters.

Anyway, after many years of now I'm a book author, SOUND of the BEAST is in its second paperback press and pushing 50,000 copies in print, and I'm finishing a novel about a satanic scare in a midwestern town during the 1980s. I feel like I learned how to write through 10,000 unsupervised record reviews, and though I wrote long letters to Don Kaye and Mike Gitter as a teenager quizzing them about their jobs, I'm glad they never answered because there's really no career path in writing per se. It's more like swimming up a waterfall.

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 27 May 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, I know that this may be frowned upon; but to spinoff from the basic theme of this: what about those of us who WANT to break into the business... say editing, asst. copyrighting, transcribing yadda yadda for any sort of a media group? I've been absolutely shameless about trying to hunt a gig, but where's a good place to start looking? I've uncovered mediabistro and journalismjobs; are they good places to mine?
Again, sorry if this is a massively lame sidetrip, but it's really my aspiration, pitiful tho' it may be.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 27 May 2004 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

whoops just read the prior screed of "don't ask there's no answer" and I think i just had my question answered? or did i?

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 27 May 2004 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Ian Christie OTMFM

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 04:15 (twenty-two years ago)

(that would be Ian Christe, sorry)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 04:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Roof-over-head income: network admin / IT guy for a software company
Time dedicated to music writing a week: actual reviews - 3 hours?, website editing - more like 30..
Age: 25
Career aspiration: own a recording studio.. or a venue.. or something..
Percentage of my income derived from writing: 0%
End in sight: some money saved.. not nearly enough

chris andrews (fraew), Thursday, 27 May 2004 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

24, and I've officially been in the game for about a year now. I never considered this as a job; I used to just dick around on music boards to talk to my internet gangsters, and despite people like Mark Richardson pushing me to get into the game, I never pitched a thing till last year because I'm a very nervous guy. One of the first places I pitched to ended up giving me an editing position after a month, and now I do that half the time (the other half is ice cream shoppe employee and working for my ruthless corporate father who makes me do weird shit like clean out his huge crystal ashtray when there's ONE BUTT in it). I've been super lucky with support - all my net niggas have stood by me and taught me loads, and even le number one soul brother of the galaxy and my music writing hero, Frank K., wrote me crucial advice about the game and life in general (this was more exciting an experience than getting to hug Kool Keith on stage). I feel lost, overexcited and under-rested, but for the moment I'm having one of the funnest, guilt-free times of my life.


PS Yo Chuck did you get my last mail?

LC, Thursday, 27 May 2004 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

lc what name do you write under?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 27 May 2004 05:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Two Roof-over-head jobs: accountant and caregiver
Time dedicated to music writing per week: several hours on ILM, but of course that involves a lot of reading, too!
Age: 33
Career aspiration: Be a higher paid and more qualified accountant
Percentage income from music writing or other musical pursuits: 0%.

I do think that as I've grown older, the idea of writing about music or even DJing has made less and less sense, for two basic reasons, one being the need I feel to make as much money as I can to save for retirement, and the other fairly close to what Phil described here: becoming more and more attached to music of the past and feeling unable to be 'relevant' to a younger demographic.

I think it's great if there are people over 40 who are able to hear new music and still be excited about it without filtering it through all the baggage of several decades of experienced music listening (and I know they are out there, surely John Peel is awesome in this regard). I just know that for me personally, once "new music" stopped being very exciting for me, I lost the inspiration to do any of these things. When I used to DJ on the radio, there were new bands coming out of England every week that thrilled me and I was enthusiastic about sharing them with others, through DJ'ing or writing. But that was a long time ago.

Bimble (bimble), Thursday, 27 May 2004 05:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: poncey high-ranking NHS manager. Enough income to stop me worrying about paying the bills, although it doesn't stop me worrying about everything else.

Time dedicated to music writing a week: less with every new week. 3/4 days per month for Uncut-related activity. Time Out/Wire stuff done on an as-and-when basis (currently for "Wire" read "nil").

Age: far too old for this shit, as Danny Glover was prone to say in the Lethal Weapons movies.

Career path: two years ago I thought that by now I would have been able to jack in the NHS and earn my living entirely through writing. Not only is this not the case, but I'm rather glad I held on to the day job, which does provide a stable social environment that freelance writing just doesn't enable. A full-time treadmill I do not find very inviting - the old "when you have to write about music as a chore, that's when the alarm bells ring" warning rings true. I'm at the periodic point where listening to/enjoying to/doing other things to music is far more life-enhancing/justifying than writing about it.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 May 2004 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

>PS Yo Chuck did you get my last mail?<

Um...who are you?? (Wait, did you write that Ill Bill and Necro spec review??? If that's what you're referring to, I kinda liked it.)

chuck, Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

any review of necro and ill bill has to be good. ill bill fucking rules, dog, as someone on necro's website might comment.

thesplooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 27 May 2004 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

lc tell the board or at least email me with who the fuck you write as or i'll spread the word the initials are an acronym for Lord Custos.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 28 May 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Day job: listings editor on regional publication. When the minimum wage goes up later in the year my boss will probably be breaking the law, but I get to listen to CDs all day and dick around on here.
Time dedicated to music writing a week: also less and less all the time. For a few years the novelty of people paying you to write about stuff overrides the fact that you don't give a shot about half of it. Then it drops off somewhat.
Age: 24 next month
Career path: uphill struggle. Getting paid, even meagre amounts, to write poxy reviews in the national press before I was in my third decade was pretty well the culmination of my short-term aspirations. But any ideas of doing this crap full time faded away some time ago. I still really enjoy seeing my stuff in print, though; if you can write with the minimum of thought paid toward who, if anyone, might be reading it, that's a sweet niche to park yourself in.

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think the specialist/generalist thing can be applied so flippantly to electronic music.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 28 May 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I think electronic music specialists frequently tend to write in indecipherable, clinical, lifeless, bloodless code in some kind of weird vacuum that ignores the non-electronic world, and tend to worry too much about how "dated" something sounds, instead of how good it is. So yeah, generalists usually do that stuff better, too.

chuck, Friday, 28 May 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I’ve always existed on the outer edges of any given fringe, so my take on age has always been kind of floaty. I was a pro musician from age 15 (LA Philharmonic Choir) until about 32, staff songwriter for Island in the 80s, was in assorted bands. At my relatively advanced sell-by date, I find it unseemly to find new and crafty ways to ream the outpourings of early twenty-something musicians, and tend to write either about music that fascinates me or outright juices my shit.

I mainly seem to write for pay about film, although I also hustle grants and work copy-writing gigs for non-profits and the like. I’m doing more ‘straight’ journalism, but am I’m looking forward to my novel—dealing with information technology control, extreme mental illness and Depeche Mode--coming out next year. A new novel ferments as I type. I'll prolly be doing this til I croak.

Ian G, Friday, 28 May 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

congrats on the novel, Ian!

The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Friday, 28 May 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks! 7 years o' fun!

Ian G, Saturday, 29 May 2004 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"I think electronic music specialists frequently tend to write in indecipherable, clinical, lifeless, bloodless code in some kind of weird vacuum that ignores the non-electronic world, and tend to worry too much about how "dated" something sounds, instead of how good it is."

But chuck that's what's so fun!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 29 May 2004 03:49 (twenty-two years ago)

indecipherable, clinical, lifeless, bloodless code
Yeah, this really bugs me too. The problem with many elec. reviews is the writers' fixation on describing what the record sounds like in very precise terms. This usually involved dropping loads of names (for comparative purposes) and uncommonly-used adjectives, which can make for boring reading if you're not in tune with the microgenre in question.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 29 May 2004 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

that's what makes Metal Sludge so good though!

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 29 May 2004 05:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha why do we hate in music crit what we love in science fiction?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 29 May 2004 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Like Chuck, I have a journalism degree and have written about lots of other things besides music -- from city finances to Jane Pratt. But the hate mail (nastiest: from fans of Kiss and the Indigo Girls) always relates to the music stuff.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 29 May 2004 08:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and the ambition part? To write books about subjects other than music while keeping my hand in doing music features and reviews.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 29 May 2004 08:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: library dude
Time dedicated to music writing a week: 15 maybe 20 minutes
Age: 28
Career aspirations: career?
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: nothing, I'd be surprised, nay shocked, if anyone would ever offer to pay me.


jel -- (jel), Saturday, 29 May 2004 08:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Chuck that's me, and I'm glad you liked it - hit me back whenever you got the time. Sterling, check your mail.

LC, Saturday, 29 May 2004 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: Library AV guy
Time dedicated to music writing a week: From 10 minutes to 30 hours depending how I feel
Age: 25
Career aspirations: To be a beautiful millionaire star child; failign that, to live in a cottage in France and email occasional reviews or whatever to whoever, thus facilitating the farmign of land and the drinking of wine and the raising of animals and the having of sex in streams that run through the garden
Percentage of my income derived from music writing: Bugger all financial reward, but I get lots of free CDs, most of which are shite, and there is the prospect of money on the imminent horizon

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Saturday, 29 May 2004 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Real roof-over-head income: Soon-to-be-unemployed customer service rep at a local daily where I also write a weekly album review column
Time dedicated to music writing a week: Anywhere from 5-10 hours of actual writing (minus listening, note-taking, thinking real hard and junk) for the newspaper, an extra 3-5 hours if I'm writing something for Stylus that week
Career aspirations: To be Nick Southall
Percentage of income derived from music writing: 8-10%

Josh Love (screamapillar), Saturday, 29 May 2004 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh Chuck that's nonsense, if something's good and it's an idea that's been done it'll get due praise and attention, if something is an idea that has been done and is crap then it is treated as such.

Anyway generalists on dance music can only ever have the ability to write about maybe 10 percent of the records.

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 29 May 2004 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Electronic music is a weird vacuum, that's my point. I'm not sure you can argue against this without arguing against the music itself either.

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 29 May 2004 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I'm going to start using the phrase "weird vacuum" instead of "it sucks."

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 29 May 2004 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Time to reuse the ever reliable "Fuck off Anthony".

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 29 May 2004 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

touchy!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 29 May 2004 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Writing about dance music might be more functional -- it's like Popular Mechanics, describing the sheen of a new wingnut or the smooth ride of a particular bassline. The big dancefloor audience could largely give a fuck whose remix they're hearing (as long as Jay-z's voice rings out on top), while the DJ reading the mag needs to know the specs. I like how it all works out.

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Saturday, 29 May 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, dude, you're like those Japanese soldiers stuck on the island still fighting WWII.

bugged out, Saturday, 29 May 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I know what you're saying and it may be true in some respects but it doesn't apply here I don't think, really.

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 29 May 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, here it's much more like fucking 'Nam.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Sunday, 30 May 2004 05:49 (twenty-two years ago)

If you can't write well about Eminem and Trina now, you probably couldn't write well about Dylan and the Dixie Cups then.

Cool is as dead as God. It is my aspiration to convince 15-year-olds of this.

I'm 50, write about music/culture whenever anyone is willing to read, talk about it to anyone who will listen, hours and hours every day. Avg time spent writing things that I could potentially/conceivably get paid for is 1 hr day, if even that, since record reviewing is not the form of writing or thinking that I most naturally fall into. Most of that hour is spent doing blindfold tests on records that I never review.

In early '80s I earned money as legal proofreader, late '80s to late '90s as technical editor for environmental and engineering firms. Now all my money comes from record reviews; result, I am falling further into debt. This has to do with my work habits more than with lack of opportunity, in that the opportunity to write for pay exists but the opportunity to write what I want is far less. Career aspiration is to help create a great conversation.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

If you can't write well about Eminem and Trina now, you probably couldn't write well about Dylan and the Dixie Cups then.

But what if you didn't want to write about any of them? (Except the Dixie Cups, about whom I know nothing.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Then your problem is solved!

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

We'll write about music until the end of time
And we'll never be lonely anymore

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Hurrah!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

The chatroom of love.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 3 June 2004 04:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Chatroom vs. Pompatus

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 June 2004 04:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Career aspiration is to help create a great conversation.
-- Frank Kogan

You aspire admirably and create greatly. Many thanks for that.
Sincerely,

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 3 June 2004 05:57 (twenty-two years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.