TS: Nellie McKay vs. Alanis Morrissette

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Which is less irriating: smug NPR-style pretention, terrible jokes, bland, lifeless production (b-b-b-but it's Geoff Emerick!), and half-assed "songcraft"

leaden confessional "poetry" backed by the occasional decent arrangement and shameless hook?

Reluctantly, I think I prefer the latter.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Forgot the mannered vocals. Torch jazz oversinging vs. Confessional pop-folk-rock oversinging.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Nellie wins because fun.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"Fun" that isn't very fun vs. deadly seriousness that is kind of funny.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Nellie all the way. I was permanently soured on Alanis when working at a chain record store the same time Jagged Little Pill came out. Hearing the album as many as five times a day from front to back for an entire summer will do that to you.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

That sounds horrible. Unfortunately for me, Get Away From Me 5x per day sounds even worse.

Yikes, I think I need help with this vendetta.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd hit it.

― ddb, Thursday, 27 May 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

It'd probably hit back, too.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 27 May 2004 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

< Monty Burns> excellent. < /Monty Burns>

― ddb, Thursday, 27 May 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

hey, shouldn't you be busy listening to a beyonce jay-z mashup or some other stupid shit instead of griping over two artists who you obviously feel threatened by???

― reo, Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Probably, but I'm busy being threatened by jackasses on a bulletin board.

You forgot to pick one.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Nellie by a mile, because I actively enjoy her.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

and because she's actively enjoyable, period. Alanis is not.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, nellie all the way.

― reo, Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

"and because she's actively enjoyable, period. Alanis is not."

You are taunting me, no Mr. W.K.?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Nellie McKay vs. Jamie Cullun vs. Peter Cincotti, si. This comparison, no. These two belong together more by sex than sensibility.

― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I really can barely tolerate either of them, but I started this as an exercise in smugness vs. crassness as an irritant (I really do think Alanis is crass, in its simplest definition). There was method to my madness.

I felt like there would be many ILMers who found them both irritating and would comment substantially.

But I guess Nellie's fans don't see any smugness.

What's really weird is that I love Elvis Costello, who is really pretty damn smug.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

But I guess Nellie's fans don't see any smugness.

At 19, that kind of behavior is simple to overlook. If she doesn't grow out of it in a few years, the opinion pendulum could swing the other way.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I have certainly called Nellie out on her bullshit (in a review edited by none other than Keith Harris, an estimable person despite his inexplicable Alanis luv), but she seems way more exuberant than smug to me. in other words, Johnny Fever OTM.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr. Matos, what's the link to that review? I'm still looking for help sorting through my feelings about Nellie (I think I'm set with Alanis).

Exuberance is probably Nellie's best feature, but it results in more missteps than successes, as far as I'm concerned.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Matos' review isn't online anymore I guess--just searched for it in vain.

How can Nellie be exuberant? I thought that emotion died out with "She Loves You."

If only I could actively enjoy Alanis, rather than merely luv her...

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

If only I could actively enjoy Alanis, rather than merely luv her...

Eww, I didn't actually mean it *that* way.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

no no no emotion died out with "Little Latin Lupe Lu." get it straight, man.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:42 (twenty-two years ago)

But Matos, what about:

I'll defend his point in the NYT essay, however, using one song title: She Loves You.

Which is to say that this particular Beatles record represents a type of sheer exuberance, perhaps joy, blasting from the speaker that has largely ceased to exist outside the world of indie power pop. Music fans are, of course, beyond such simplistic pursuits.

But why, and why must we be?

-- Gil (bgno6...), May 27th, 2004.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

oh I saw that, don't worry. I can only take so much emotion at a time, being a wisecracking robot, see.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

You make the bees in my knees weak, M

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

A title like "The Bees of My Knees" is 100x more fun than anything on Nellie's discs.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

no it isn't

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

yes it is

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Whoops, "Knees of My Bees". Even more fun.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

good melodies = fun

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

that review, btw:

Nellie McKay
Get Away From Me
(Columbia)
8 [it was downgraded to 7 for some reason]
Here’s how old-fashioned Nellie McKay is: Her hour-long debut is broken up into two CDs, representative of the two sides of what used to be called “albums.” The self-conscious unusualness doesn’t end there, either. McKay usually writes the kind of music that was termed “pop” in the ’40s and ’50s—piano-led, cocktail-jazzy, lightly melancholy when not brassily wink-and-nudging, with swooping vocal lines—and has the vocal chops to match. The closest she gets to turn-on-the-radio-no-not-NPR modern is the chamber-pop of “Baby Watch Your Back” and the, um, “rapping” on “Sari.” And she writes really screwy lyrics—think Randy Newman, or Steely Dan if they’d shunned electric guitars. Except—the big except—McKay isn’t a grouchy thirty-to-sixtysomething. She’s all of 19—an odd age for someone to name-check Ethel Merman (on “Change the World”). Even Harry Connick, Jr. and Norah Jones didn’t take their retro-fitted style public till they were well into their 20s.
Her tunes stick, too, even when they’re showy or cute (the “That’s what it’s all a-bow-wow-wowt” that caps “The Dog Song”), and so do her arrangements, which have an appealingly woody finish. Like most young, ambitious artists, McKay is a bit catty—the title of Get Away From Me swats at Jones’s first album—and like many a bright, college-age bohemian is a bit too condescending for her own good. “I only listen to top 40,” she coos archly on “Won’t U Please B Nice,” and on “I Wanna Get Married,” we get, “I wanna pack cute little lunches/For my Brady Bunches/And read Danielle Steele.” In short, she makes fun of middle-aged housewives in exactly the way you’d expect from someone with more intelligence than experience. Good thing that isn’t true of the way she writes music.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Um, you told me to knock it down to a 7.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

that's the reason, then. only I don't remember doing that, though I guess I did. I was wrong to, in any case.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I'd say it's an 8, too. New Alanis is a 7 for me right now, but gaining.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

In short, she makes fun of middle-aged housewives in exactly the way you’d expect from someone with more intelligence than experience.

This perfectly expresses what I've been trying to say (ineffectively), but for me it makes the record a 4 or 5 because it's so pervasive and noticeable.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I totally hear all of your objections, of course. I just stopped having them after awhile because I started liking everything else around them a lot more. and she's WAY great live.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

e.g. her punchlines gain a lot more punch in front of a crowd. and her patter is pretty fucking great--she skirts the edge of preciousness but then totally rescues herself, and she's completely unsentimental. makes me think the next record'll be even better.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I swear this song is about Matos:
http://www.lyrics007.com/Alanis%20Morissette%20Lyrics/Knees%20Of%20My%20Bees%20Lyrics.html

you are a spirit that knows of no limit
that knows of no ceiling who balks at dead-ends
you are a wordsmith who cares for his brothers
not seduced by illusions of fair-weather friends

you make the knees of my bees weak, tremble and buckle

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I love you too, Keith.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I will check her out next time around if I can.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Alanis and Shakira should have an awkward-off.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I hear Nellie has great fashion sense too.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Awkward = HOTT!!

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

awkward + will to power = NOT EVEN FUCKING REMOTELY!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, Mr. "I Love Prince Even Though He Sings Inexplicably About Race Car Drivers And Lunchboxes Full of Starfish"

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

confidently phrased nonsense /= awkwardly phrased commonplaces

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I donno. If yer gonna put down the booshwah lifestyle, I'd rather smartie contempt for it than oily-sympathetic kissoff. I mean, which mode is *really* more contemptuous? (Which is another way of saying Nellie McKay never reminds me of Billy Joel for a second, a good thing.)

― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I would agree; BJ falls well below both Nellie and Alanis on my ladder.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

oh that alanis album is AWFUL. keith harris you are out of my will.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm kind of surprised how much the thread title pissed me off.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"keith harris you are out of my will."

Dammit, I could have used the extra plasma.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr. Miccio, because you thought it was a dumb idea or because of the excruciating choice?

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

you'll be sorry when all those millions of dollars give you papercuts.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr. Miccio, because you thought it was a dumb idea or because of the excruciating choice?

I'm going to go with the former but I refuse to defend my choice.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

The music is bland auto-rock, sure, but I still find Alanis's human-as-a-second-language shtick endearing. And no, I don't expect anybody to hope on the bus this late in the trip.

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

NELLIE MCKAY WILL NEVER WRITE "THANK U" ALRIGHT? GOOD NIGHT.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I had no idea until now that these artists are touring together this summer, with the kings of smug: the Barenaked Ladies. Yiiiikkkkeees.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

haha matos and keith need to get their own comedy act

this thread = k-klassik!!

― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Nellie's on that tour? I just thought it was Alanis and the Barenakeds.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Nellie ain't 19.

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

She's actually 22, I think. Apparently she gets really pissed at bad reviews and when someone outs her age. (I know this 'cuz I went out on one date with a friend of hers and since the girl never called me back...)

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 27 May 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm kind of surprised how much the thread title pissed me off.

It didn't piss me off, but I did giggle at the misspelling (that's one "r," for those playing at home).

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 27 May 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Whoops!

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 27 May 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway marissa marchant is the REAL star of this show.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 27 May 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

God, she totally splits the difference, doesn't she?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 27 May 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

southern lights, I think I'm the only one who feels you on this thread. Nellie McDumbCunt is the fucking worst.

P.S. Guy who wrote that review: can you take a proactive step for "music journalism" and stop using the term "name-check"? Thanks.

P.P.S. Randy Newman and Steely Dan are the fucking worst too.

― DJ BEAST OF LEGEND, Thursday, 27 May 2004 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

"mcdumbcunt"!!! nice namecheck dude!

p.s. Guy who wrote that post: can you take a proactive step for your neighborhood and start using the term "soap"? Thanks.

p.p.s. orel hershiser and kirk gibson are the fucking worst

― DJ BEAST OF LANSFORD, CARNEY (James Blount), Thursday, 27 May 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

ts: prostrate cancer vs. lung cancer

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 27 May 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I will check her out next time around if I can.
-- southern lights (mage...), May 27th, 2004.

okay, i don't get this. why do you start a thread pitting nellie against alanis, continute to pretty much hate on nellie, and then, wowzers, all of a sudden decide, ''oh, maybe i should see her in concert.''
my point, why do you feel the need to try to force yourself to like her??? to me that is utter crap. are you a journalist?

p.s. the obvious irony is that she's opening for alanis this summer.
which is oh so devastating.....bad managing or booking agent or whatever...gads, not to mention sting in europe and the barenaked ladies here also. truly sad.

p.p.s. amateurist, to you i blow a kiss.

― reo, Friday, 28 May 2004 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't be trying to force myself to like her; I would be taking a respected music fan's advice (I respect what I know of Matos from his blog, posts here, and reviews) just to make sure my judgement was fair. Why do we even have these debates?

I'm truly intrigued by the positive response to Nellie; I want to figure it out. I loathe most of the record, but if she comes around on a free evening and I feel like having a few drinks, I will go out and see her just to see what Matos is talking about.

Why does this have anything to do with being a journalist?

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 28 May 2004 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not a journalist, btw.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 28 May 2004 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

four years pass...

hard to choose since i find both so grating. i guess nellie because she has some talent and might grow out of her quirks. i don't expect alanis will ever improve on her debut.

― velko, Tuesday, 29 July 2008 05:12 (seventeen years ago)

nellie mckay has some good lols and has enough chops and sheer loopy gall to make the retro showtune stuff come off. alanis morrissette is just the worst.

― goole, Tuesday, 29 July 2008 05:19 (seventeen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.