Advise needed from ILMers: How do I go about getting permission to record someone else's song???

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Later this summer, my band will be performing an original live soundtrack to a silent movie. We had an idea to play a specific cover during the closing credits. We also were thinking of printing 100 limited edition CDs of the music to sell the night of the performance.
To include the cover in the recording, what do we need to do?
How much time and paperwork is needed to get this permission?
What would the cost be?
(There might be a thread on this somewhere, but I couldn't find it)

peepee (peepee), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

if you're doing 100 CDRs no will find out!

People love Gravity and Ebullition! (ex machina), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

But doesn't everyone read ILM????

peepee (peepee), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it has to be a run of 500 before you even need to pay royalties. That's just what I remember reading a few years ago.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Crikey, we went through a similar situation about 4 or 5 years ago. Though we changed some of the lyrics, so we actually had to get permission from the publishing company - fortunately, the band we covered loved our version so much that they "bought" our changes for a pound (our bassist still has the cheque. I hope! If she cashed it, she's stupid!). I don't know. This is something to do with "mechanicals" or something which I never understood - the record company is supposed to pay them to release the cover or something, erm, and... god, I'm not help at all, am I?

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Is not having to pay royalties the same as not needing permission to cover it?

peepee (peepee), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think you ever need permission to cover something unless, as in our case, you change the song.

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

(Because technically, if you change the song, you become a co-writer from a publishing standpoint (i.e. the description "change a word, take a third") and you need to come up with some plan with the publisher whereby you relinquish (or share in some cases) the publishing money from the song.)

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

You don't need permission to record and release an unchanged cover?
Of course, we'll change the song, just not lyrically.

peepee (peepee), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, please advise me on how to spell "advice".

peepee (peepee), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

A song, legally, consists of the lyrics and the melody. If you don't change either of those (i.e. you only change arrangement, instrumentation, that sort of thing) then you need no permission.

If you cover a song, you may need to pay royalties. It's perfectly fine to cover a song live, because the venue you perform in usually pays some kind of lisencing just to have live or recorded music played there. In that case, the venue has already paid said live royalties.

If you are a record company which releases a cover, you are supposed to pay "mechanical" royalties to the publishing company that owns the rights to the songs. But lots of record companies, especially small ones, don't bother. As someone else pointed out, there may be a threshold of a certain amount of copies to be sold below which mechanicals do not have to be paid.

(Please bear in mind, this may be different in your country, this was specifically for the UK.)

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

(Also, I could be completely mis-remembering what happened when we did this. My memory is poor, and my understanding of mechanicals sketchy at best.)

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm in Canada.

peepee (peepee), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Then you would talk to the CMRRA! They have a website with downloadable pamphlets explaining all here:

http://www.cmrra.ca/Mechanical_Licensing/mechanical_licensing.html

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

(Which reminds me, I wonder if we ever contacted SOCAN to see if we were owed any performance royalties from all the airplay we got...)

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, I just found this on that website:

The minimum number of copies for which a mechanical license will be issued is 200, whether or not you are pressing or importing a smaller number of copies. Licenses for this quantity are issued at the price of $15.00 per song (assuming that the running time of the recording in question is five minutes or less; the rate for each additional minute or partial minute of running time in this case is $3.00).

I'm not sure if that means that under 200 copies you don't have to worry about it, or if you have to purchase a lisence for 200 copies even if you only press 100.

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 12:59 (twenty-one years ago)

once you "perform" it (in a club, on radio etc) you need to declare it if it is covered by a collecting agency and then payment from the club or radio staion goes back to the authors. if they (the authors)haven't registered with a collecting agency then you need to negotiate with them direst.

gaz (gaz), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Most places don't actually do that, I think they just pay a flat rate or something. I can remember the one and only time that I was ever asked by a venue person for a set list, including authors, for PRS purposes. (I think it was actually at the Manchester Roadhouse of all places) I was taken quite by surprise! Still... never saw a penny for that. But nice to know they checked.

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Funnily enough, if you do a satirical cover version, changing the words, it is perfectly allowed under the 'fair comment/free speech' rules, so you actually get to keep the money.

mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

you have to purchase a lisence for 200 copies even if you only press 100.

That's how I read it.

Vic Funk, Friday, 25 June 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.harryfox.com/

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Nickalicious otm... better link:

http://www.songfile.com/

Aaron W (Aaron W), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I'd go by that assumption. $15 is a small price to pay, compared to the hassle of getting sued or fined or whatever. Better safe than sorry.

(And, see, this is what really f*cks me off about all the twunts on ILE banging on about how they "don't believe in copyright" etc. Copyright actually exists to *protect* the individual against the corporation (though I understand well enough how it's misused for the wrong way around.))

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Uuhhh... guys, did you notice that both those links are for *US* only? Copyright and publishing varies greatly from country to country. That's why I *specifically* looked up a Canadian publishing company!

He wants to be me (kate), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)

in the u.s. at least, you don't need to declare anything if you cover a song in a club or on a radio station. it's the radio station's job, not yours, to track what goes out over its airwaves, and the club plays a blanket license to the collecting agencies covering any and all songs that are performed there. the collecting agencies dole out that money to publishers and songwriters based on statistic samples, but no one has a list of every song played in every club.

when you cover it on a record, the record company (or you, if you are the record company) need to file paperwork with the proper collecting agency to let them know about the cover, and then you have to pay them royalties, but you don't have to ask them permission. the permission is automatic, as is the royalty rate. unless you significantly change the music or lyrics, as has been noted above.

(Because technically, if you change the song, you become a co-writer from a publishing standpoint (i.e. the description "change a word, take a third") and you need to come up with some plan with the publisher whereby you relinquish (or share in some cases) the publishing money from the song.)

it's more than that. the original writer/publisher has no power to stop other people from recording his song as written, but he has the absolute right to say no to anyone who tries to muck with the composition. you need direct permission to release a significantly altered cover on a record, regardless of whether you want to put your name on the song or not. if the songwriter doesn't want the song to be rewritten -- or used as part of a new composition -- he can block it. (unless you can convincingly claim that your altered version is a legally protected parody.)

fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Make sure to preface your request with the following verbiage:

"Just a bit of fun, so lets be cool."

briania (briania), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

One time I was in a holiday camp dance hall (well, this has happened more than once).

The band were asked if they would do "Agadoo" but the band replied that as they had not paid the mcps, they couldn't do it legally. After a few more requests, they said "Ah, what the heck, OK" and then hit the other reason why you shouldn't do songs you havent rehearsed when you are a seven piece band. Cocked it up royally. Wish I'd taped it.

mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, mark, tasteless joke on my part.

briania (briania), Friday, 25 June 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)


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