anyone seen that chart of "the 100 best black albums" in the sun

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it's quite mental...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounds awesome - give us a precis...

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh my. Does this mean I'm going to have to buy The Sun?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw the 'bonny baby' comp. My gawd. Mind you, the one called Amber caught my eye as she does look like my daughter Amber, but she is six now.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

1 What's Going On Marvin Gaye
2 Off The Wall Michael Jackson
3 It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back Public Enemy
4 Songs In The Key Of Life Stevie Wonder
5 Illmatic Nas
6 Thriller Michael Jackson
7 Catch A Fire Bob Marley And The Wailers
8 Ready To Die Notorious BIG
9 Straight Outta Compton NWA
10 The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill Lauryn Hill
11 Midnight Marauders A Tribe Called Quest
12 Kind Of Blue Miles Davis
13 A Love Supreme John Coltrane
14 Innervisions Stevie Wonder
15 What's The 411 Mary J Blige
16 Brown Sugar D'Angelo
17 Death Certificate Ice Cube
18 The Chronic Dr Dre
19 I Want You Marvin Gaye
20 Only Built 4 Cuban Linx Raekwon
21 Rapture Anita Baker
22 Club Classics Vol 1 Soul II Soul
23 Baduizm Erykah Badu
24 Talking Book Stevie Wonder
25 Exodus Bob Marley
26 Greatest Hits Al Green
27 Lets Get It On Marvin Gaye
28 Superfly Curtis Mayfield
29 The Harder They Come Various
30 Doggystyle Snoop Doggy Dogg
31 Paid In Full Eric B And Rakim
32 3 Feet High And Rising De La Soul
33 Reasonable Doubt Jay-Z
34 The Score Fugees
35 Natty Dread Bob Marley And The Wailers
36 Til Shiloh Buju Banton
37 Hot Buttered Soul Isaac Hayes
38 Mary J Blige My Life
39 Everybody Loves The Sunshine Roy Ayers
40 Electric Ladyland Jimi Hendrix
41 Bad Michael Jackson
42 Revolution Dennis Brown
43 3+3 Isley Brothers
44 Curtis/Live! Curtis Mayfield
45 There's A Riot Going On Sly & The Family Stone
46 Legalize It Peter Tosh
47 Birth Of The Cool Miles Davis
48 By All Means Necessary Boogie Down Productions
49 Me Against The World 2Pac
50 Blue Train John Coltrane
51 Live At The Apollo Vol 1 James Brown & The Famous Flames
52 Can't Get Enough Barry White
53 12 Play R Kelly
54 Da Real Thing Sizzla
55 Shaft Isaac Hayes
56 Live Donny Hathaway
57 Control Janet Jackson
58 Coffin For Head Of State Fela Kuti
59 The Night I Fell In Love Luther Vandross
60 Life After Death Notorious BIG
61 Criminal Minded Boogie Down Productions
62 Diary Of A Mad Band Jodeci
63 For Pleasure Omar
64 All Eyez On Me 2Pac
65 Follow The Leader Eric B And Rakim
66 What Cha Gonna Do For Me Chaka Khan
67 Winter In America Gil Scott-Heron
68 Equal Rights Peter Tosh
69 Forever My Lady Jodeci
70 Peace Beyond Passion Meshell Ndegocello
71 Sex Machine James Brown
72 New Moon Daughter Cassandra Wilson
73 The Revolution Will Not Be Televised Gil Scott-Heron
74 Lady Day: Best Of Billie Holiday Billie Holiday
75 Sign O' The Times Prince
76 Music Is Life Bares Hammond
77 Everything Is Everything Danny Hathaway
78 Original Rockers Augustus Pablo
79 Young Gifted And Black Aretha Franklin
80 Aquemini Outkast
81 Street Songs Rick James
82 Who Is Jill Scott? Jill Scott
83 This Is Madness The Last Poets
84 Marcus Garvey Burning Spear
85 Whitney Houston Whitney Houston
86 Road To Freedom Young Disciples
87 Step Into The Arena Gang Starr
88 Voodoo D'Angelo
89 Anthology Nina Simone
90 Otis Blue Otis Redding
91 Confusion Fela Kuti
92 One Nation Under A Groove Funkadelic
93 Guy Guy
94 Wolves And Leopards Dennis Brown
95 CrazySexyCool TLC
96 Raising Hell Run DMC
97 Mama Said Knock You Out LL Cool J
98 Don't Be Cruel Bobby Brown
99 Tracy Chapman Tracy Chapman
100 Stronger Than Pride Sade

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Surprised not to see Hearsay by Alexander O'Neal in there.

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Also note, Trevor Nelson has had to writte an accopanying piece explaining to The Sun's obviously livid readership why on earth there's no Craig David in there.

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

well, a precis is tough but it's a poll done by the new nation newspaper canvassing 100 black artists and industry figures. some of the selections are abject craziness, but it's the only time you will ever see coffin for head of state by fela kuti, or anything by sizzla, buju banton or the last poets mentioned in the sun. unsuprisingly, what's going on is top. sign o the times gets a shockingly low ranking and off the wall comes a few places above thriller(!!??!!).
thing that struck me was whatever you think of the choices, it's a lot more fun than that awful pile of shite in the OMM a couple of weeks ago.
also i will buy several pints for anyone who takes on the gargantuan task of typing this in.

hahaha! i didn't even get to send that before it was typed in. huey you are both a complete headcase and a total hero!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:56 (twenty-one years ago)

did hot buttered soul come out before or after last tango in paris?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

And why ISN'T Craig in there (according to Trev)?

Is there an obvious tie-in that means the Sun consider this newsworthy?

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Who voted?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Off the wall is better than thriller. So nur.

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Trev Nelson, he say:

"The most important thing to point out about this poll is that it's not about punter power. This is a critics list, so there are no popular choices. So although Craig David has sold millions of records, he's not on the list."

Thanks Trev.

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:00 (twenty-one years ago)

It was done by New Nation.

"...as voted for by 100 black artists, DJs and music industry experts... They included singers Beverley Knight and Lemar, and Kanya King, founder of the Music Of Black Origin (Mobo) awards."

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:01 (twenty-one years ago)

his point abt no new records is valid tho

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Which is:

"Its interesting that there are no albums on this list that have been made since 2001. This is because the critics like an album to gather a little dust before they will give it any kudos. I love these lists because they are so controversial and get everyone thinking."

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)

not that i agree or anything

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Mmm, unless I'm mistaken Reasonable Doubt is the most recent thing on here (compare to the OMM thing which had Boy In Da Corner riding pretty high- you could fashion a talking point out of that couldn't you?). Except he said "no popular choices" which isn't true at all.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I like this line: "...critics like an album to gather a little dust before they will give it any kudos..."

I believe it's called perspective.

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually this could have been a hell of a lot worse, and to have Til Shiloh on there gladdens my heart...

― Jacob (Jacob), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:13 (twenty-one years ago)

'Last Tango' premiered October 1972.

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:16 (twenty-one years ago)

wasn't boy in da corner at 97 or something (which means simon and like 1 other person must have voted for it!)? anyway, gimme a chart of 100 "old" records that's about 60% good ahead of a fusty old heap of shite with a couple of token cutting-edge entries any day.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:17 (twenty-one years ago)

i know enrq, i was being stupid.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:18 (twenty-one years ago)

my basic point being that if the lines have to be drawn around music, these lists always fail in one way or another but "black" music is rather better than "british" music.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Why were only black people polled?

Surely that makes it the "100 best black albums according to black people" and not at all authorative (not that it is anyway).
Why should they be better able to judge the music? Is it cos they is black?

This is like "best albums made by women, according to women" or "OPO The Beatles (no homosexuals allowed to vote!)"

(What's "Coffin For Head Of State - Fela Kuti"
sound like, BTW?)

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:23 (twenty-one years ago)

And WTF NO BAD BRAINS!!!

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Also if - as I've so often hear and it still really, really, pisses me off - hip hop is black music, where is Eminem?

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:24 (twenty-one years ago)

wasn't boy in da corner at 97 or something (which means simon and like 1 other person must have voted for it!)?

Um, it was only a top 50 wasn't it? Or am I involuntarily blocking it from my memory? (Either way I'm sure it was higher than that. I remember it was the only record you could identify on the mag's cover)

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"best albums made by women, according to women"

Why not? These are just lists, there's nothing authoritative about it. It's targetting a question at a particular demographic, like all research questionnaires do. The poll you mentioned above might actually be quite interesting, i.e. no fanboys.

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I'd genuinely like to see that.

Also I'd be *very* surprised to see Bad Brains on a list like these, cool as it would be. The level of success they had in bringing 'black culture' into hardcore was pretty limited, sadly

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:32 (twenty-one years ago)

just looked at the list and thought how much more i'd like to have spanking brand new copies of each of those albums than the omm's pathetic offering... i think i'll have to switch papers.

― Jay G (jaybob79), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there some kinda law that says you have to put friggin' "What's Going On" on every list imaginable?

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

If black people, escpecially those interested in music, don't know about Bad Brains they're missing out on important part of their collective cultural heritage!

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)

How could we arrange a "best albums made by women, according to women" poll?

I don't think there's be enough females on ILM to geta decent sample, would there?

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Its about 50%, isn't it?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

isn't the Sizzla the most recent record?

― LC, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't really expect to see Bad Brains.

This poll is EXACTLY like the OMM one, "it's a poll done by the new nation newspaper canvassing 100 black artists and industry figures",
they've just picked a slightly different group of mainstream music names of a certain age.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm, 50%?
Okay then I'll start a poll thread in a bit.

Any suggestions for how to put it?

I'll compile all the stats, would someone else like to write the text? I will otherwise.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

that's a great chart and I won't hear a word against it

um, except...

― Jeff W (zebedee), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

more lists today:

The music industry's 100 most influential people [by Q magazine]
http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/music/features/story.jsp?story=536282

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

New Nation bills it as the "100 Greatest Albums of All Time", not necessarily "black" albums.

― JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Guy in greater than Beatles shocker.

― JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

i'll second that!

― zebedee (zebedee), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

25 Exodus Bob Marley

You wouldn't beleive how many times I've picked this up in a shop thinking momentarily it's an album by by the trash band Exodus.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

25? That would be spooky.

― Huey (Huey), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably about 50 times.
Would be cool if it was 25 though.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

The 100 Greatest Albums of all Time, 28.6.04

You’re either going to be engaged or enraged by our list of The 100 Greatest Albums Of All Time. We already knew that when we began planning this extensive poll some months ago. It didn’t scare us in the slightest. Quite the opposite.
Some would argue that, when it comes to music, there’s no such thing as a definitive list. How can there be when music is such an incredibly passionate, personal and emotional thing? Who truly has the authority to say what’s great and what’s not? In fact, what even constitutes ‘great’? That said, this has never prevented any of us from having such ‘who’s the greatest…’ debates, arguments and fights with our friends, family and work colleagues. It happens here at New Nation all the time, trust me.
So, how exactly did we come up with this list? We contacted 100 people from the music industry – such as singers, musicians, djs, producers, journalists and broadcasters – and asked them to pick their Top 20 albums of all time, placing them in order of preference. For some, compiling such a list in this manner proved a major headache and they blatantly refused to list their favourite choices in the required order. Beverley Knight probably typified the frustration of some when, returning her own completed list, she noted: ‘I hate these lists! They are impossible to compile. Too much great music!’
She had a point, but we love polls nonetheless, which is why we continue to compile them and subsequently argue and fight over their merits and content.
Once we had the lists back, we devised a points system to calculate the final 100. Our poll is not based on sales or chart positions: in that nightmare scenario the likes of Hammer and Nelly would have brutally crushed Marvin and Stevie.
The results, which span more than 50 years of truly great music, are intriguing to say the least. For instance, the most recent album to make the list was released in 2001, an indication maybe that our experts felt the legacy of an album can only be truly gauged after several years. Either that or maybe they simply felt there’s not been any great albums in the past few years.
But more than who ranks higher than whom, it’s who’s absent from the 100 that will really fire some people up. I can hear the questions of dismay now: How does Otis Redding make the list but not Sam Cooke? Why Prince but no Little Richard? Why Erykah and Jill but no India? How on earth can gangsta rappers rank higher than jazz legends Miles and Coltrane? How the hell could Bobby Womack and Earth, Wind & Fire not figure? What, no Blueprint? Only four Brits?! The debate will go on – and so it should.

Regardless of their final position, these are all important and great albums. It doesn’t end here though and if anything our Top 100 should be a catalyst for musical discovery. There are many other great albums which never made the list. We all have opinions on what’s a ‘great’ album. It’s just that, on this occasion, those of our 100 experts were the ones that mattered.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Why Erykah and Jill but no India?

is anyone seriously asking this? wtf

― zebedee (zebedee), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm a bit suspicious of this New Nation magazine/newspaper.
The name is very dodgy, and they don;t even think to mention that they've restricted it to black music and people.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 9 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I think ILM should host a 100 Best Jewish Albums poll

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously if a certain record isn't on this list than all black people must either detest it or be completely oblivious to it.

― Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

than = then, shit

― Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"I think ILM should host a 100 Best Jewish Albums poll "

...and if we did a Venn diagram showing this along with the black one and the female one, showing intersections and...

*mouth waters*

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

mei, re the nme analogy this poll DID tell you coz it was called the 100 best BLACK albums and it was pretty explicit about it.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

best gay albums, too

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.audiogalaxy.com/articles/images/YOLATENGOLARGE.jpg

Well, I'm done voting

(xpost)

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i am not being a dick there, b4 i get accused. there's a good many great gay records and i own several hundred of them being sometghing of a straight disco queen, as it were.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

so is Marian Anderson the grebtest artist ever, then?

(xxxxpost to mei)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Imagine if NME conducted a poll of unqualified "Best Albums Ever", deliberately not asking any black people and barring any 'black' albums, but didn't tell anyone that's what they were doing.

'Imagine.'

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

it was called the 100 best BLACK albums and it was pretty explicit about it

I don't have a physical copy of the magazine but like I linked above, it looks to me like it wasn't. Not on their website anyhow.

― JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

The website is what I was looking at, and I read all that text I pasted in above, and it doesn't mention black, no.

Dave, if there was a "100 best gay albums" poll along the lines of this 'black' one, you wouldn't be allowed to vote!

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

No blues? What's up w/ that?

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"Can Black Men Like the Blues?"

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Interesting how the two Token Great Jazz Albums went back to back at #12 -13.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.cheerupgoth.com/luckybitch/lionel.jpg

And nothing at all from that amazingly talented Lionel Richtea guy, whassup with that?

That's why I'm eee-zeee!!!

― L. Richtea (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

are you trying to imply that Lionel Richie is a cracka?

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i like this list!! i've got a lot more of these than on any of the other "top 100" lists ever posted on ILM.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

this list is BS. it makes it seem like black music is one monolithic thing rather than a impossibly large banner that comprises rap, blues, R&B, soul, jazz, etc etc.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd100/d138/d1388788hv6.jpg

― ????? (Keiko), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

when scrolling through that 100 list I miss read Blue Train as Blur Blur. My opinion of British polls allowed me to believe it for a nanosecond.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Where are all the black artists whose native language happens to be Spanish? Where are all the Africans? Why didn't they say "blacks working in styles of music that are of African-American origin aside from a couple token exceptions?" Not much reggae, really.

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

is there any other place that uses "african-____" as an expression? i guess "afro-cuban" is sort of similar. is there an "african-english" or "african-british"? i dont really mind the term, but itd be interesting if there were a counterpart term somewhere else.

― peter smith (plsmith), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

ILM in expecting a poll of a particular demographic to be all-encompasing and rife with rainbows and unicorns SHOCKER

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"Afro-" is used in various Latin American contexts: Afro-Cuban (as you mentioned), Afro-Colombian, and the more esoteric term "Afro-Boricua" (i.e., Afro-Puerto-Rican, but easier to say, and with whatever connotations using "Boricua" has for speakers).

x-post: I don't really expect to be all-ecompassing, I just felt obliged to make the usual sort of complaints. It does say "Black" though and not just this or that sub-group. It's still better than saying "The Top 100 Best Albums Ever" without any qualifications and then leaving off most of the world.

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm gonna have to check out this Danny Hathaway fellow...

― Beta (abeta), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Mei, re: the whole asking-black-people thing: surely you can imagine how they maybe just might be accused of being, I dunno, maybe vaguely condescending if they got together a panel of white people to judge and rank black people's contributions to the music world? I mean, I take your point, but asking black people was surely seen as the hands-off way of making race a non-issue, especially if you imagine the root impulse of the poll was to check out the flipside of the usual white-critics / white-artists lists; sure, it'd make perfect sense to have a mixed-race pool of respondents, but as soon as they start picking percentages of this and that the whole issue gets a lot more vexed. "Let's just ask black people" = "lalala we just disinterestedly asked what people liked, no agenda or room to blame us over here, lalala."

― nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 29 June 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

No Slayer? This list is bullshit!

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

How come Huey Lewis and the News weren't on the list?

― David Allen (David Allen), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

You're mostly right nabisco, though I'm not suggesting they get a panel of only white people, I'm suggesting they disregard race when choosing the panel.

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

WRT to it being condescending to white ppl to judge black peoples' music (which I'll give you, put like that, is a silly idea), I think approximately the reverse is true.
By asking only black people it's a bit like they're saying this music isn't good enough to stand against other music generally, so we'll just ask black people, they'll choose it because they're black.

(I know it's NOT that way, because those polled weren't given the option of choosing non-black music).

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

(It reminds me of the way magazines often give music made by women to women to write about)

― mei (mei), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

What would be on a white people's top 100 black albums list that isn't on here?

e.g. "Maxinquaye", "Black secret technology", "Kind of blue", "Best of Otis Redding"

― Jacob (Jacob), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

depends what demographic of white people. those albums would be voted for by Guardian/Observer critics and readers, definitely. as would "Speakerboxxx / The Love Below".

for the people who were baffled by this poll in the Sun it's more likely to be Whitney Houston/Luther Vandross/Lionel Richie or (as Trevor Nelson acknowledged) Craig David/Usher/Beyonce, depending on generation. still a useful signifier of changing times that the Sun printed this New Nation poll at all, though.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

the ultra-chavs (the stereotypical Star/Sport readers) might vote for 50 Cent (but not G-Unit).

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I'm with you, Mei; I think the impulse in both situations is for the publications to totally wash their hands of any accusations of racism / sexism by having someone of-the-group do the choosing. I mean, even if they'd decided to use a mixed-race panel, they'd have run into the issue of choosing racial proportions and so on --- doing it this way is a complete hand-washing of responsibility for anything having to do with race. Which is, yeah, usually just sort of pitiful-sounding, though in this case I don't think it does any great harm.

― nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Should Barry White even qualify? His music was White music, was it not?

(and then why doesn't Frank Black qualify)

And wasn't Sly and the Family Stone like half white?

And how do they determine if the panal is black? Is it based on census data? Is there a racial litmus test?

― Super Cub (Debito), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

ultra-chav?!

that's not a term i'd have immediately associated with you robin. and as the new nation is a black-owned newspaper, aimed at a black readership they don't need to stae explicitly that it is a black thing! also none of us have seen the list of contributors have we? i'm betting there will be at least a couple of other races represented, for what that matters at all. anyway, look at the omm poll. that was hardly the most pluralistic of panels, was it? should they have explained exactly the demographic they chose and why. plus, this idea that somehow white people are being "discriminated against" just makes me laugh.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 08:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there was a certain amount of devil's advocate going on there... if you followed the line of logic you'd quickly be asking why the New Nation exists at all, which shouldn't really need to be answered. Which isn't to say that some interesting observations couldn't be made

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

some UK artists the list ignores:

massive attack (okay, this might be dance but the first album was still 'black music')
tricky
roni size
young disciples
london posse
roots manuva
loose ends

if they can put TLC in there, young disciples deserves to be there too.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

who cares that only black people (allegedly) compiled this list? every other 'canonical' list in Q, NME, the observer, wherever, is to my knowledge, compiled from 95% white people. its about time something aimed to offer an alternative.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, the total absence of any UK hip-hop, or the subsequent offshoots of it, suggests this is kind of an Old People's Poll. Wholly Subjective Blanket Conclusion: black middle-aged music is better than white middle-aged music

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 09:44 (twenty-one years ago)

well the list is pretty suspect for missing out any earth wind and fire, but its really just a list of the last 20 years with a few oldies thrown in for good 'we know the classics too' measure. it doesnt seem all that thorough.

i dont much like the idea of black music being considered an actual genre either, its stupidly reductive. this list should have been divided into genres - hip hop, jazz, R&B, soul, etc.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 09:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Most other polls like this don't. It's too bloody fiddly

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

but black music isnt really a genre, so much as it is 'music played mainly by black people'. ive never really liked the term anyway - it has nothing to do with the content of the music.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 09:57 (twenty-one years ago)

duke ellington never made a good jazz album...

― Beta (abeta), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Dave ... sorry if i appeared to be mocking The Great Proletariat Who Will Rise Up And Conquer The World. i was merely making the point that there is a certain kind of white working-class outside the most racially mixed areas of Britain who tend to like 50 Cent more than most other hip-hop. believe me, they exist. and a good many of them were probably bemused by this poll yesterday ...

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Was _Black Secret Technology_ actually popular and wildly successful?

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

No, but lots of white people liked it.

― Jacob (Jacob), Thursday, 1 July 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

or rather: lots of white middle-class liberals (ie the sort who vote in music polls) liked it.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Thursday, 1 July 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

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