Living in the shadows..

Pre millenial tension by Tricky. Even spookier than Maxinquaye.

I actually have to agree with you fully there, I listen to that much more so than Maxinquaye, which doesn't do much for me.

Hm, other answers...Around the World In a Day is a definite candidate.

"Aladdin Sane"?

Beat me to it, Sean. I prefer Aladdin Sane to Ziggy, actually.

I'm sure Ally will jump all over me at the mere mentioning of this band, but I think the Manic Street Preachers' THIS IS MY TRUTH... got the shaft being that it followed the largely-hyped EVERYTHING MUST GO. I actually prefer THIS IS MY TRUTH...but, y'know...that's me.

Sunny Day Real Estate's Pink album, which came after Diary.

Though they're both classics, "The Slider" tends to be unfairly overshadowed by "Electric Warrior".

Lodger is unfairly overlooked 'cos it follows Low and Heroes.

Strangeways Here We Come.

Mutations by Beck. Odelay was great as an eclectic album. I prefer Mutations where Beck shows that he can also write real songs.

Suede - Coming Up

And that's the whole problem with Beck. He holds the trad idea of 'real songs' in too much regard to really let rip with the cut- up/noise-hop/funk masterpiece that Odelay suggested he might have in him. Apart from one or two tracks Mutations is so dull.

Mutations is so dull. I guess in that case I love dull music. But instead of "dull" I would say "simple" or maybe "acoustic". I think the litmus test for a good musician is if he can pull it only with or without his voice and a guitar (or any other acoustic instrument). Do you also think Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen make "dull music" Dr.C.? And probably you love Midnite Vultures which I consider as extremely boring, don't you?

**I think the litmus test for a good musician is if he can pull it only with or without his voice and a guitar (or any other acoustic instrument)**

I've never regarded this as worth anything - but then I don't much like singer-songwriters. The whole concept of 'unplugged' and 'real songs can be played on a single acoustic guitar' is fairly silly. Here are some people who I think are good musicians - Phil Oakey (can hardly play a note and has a very limited voice), Ralf Hutter (a programmer), the late Martin Hannett (soundscaper). Give them an acoustic guitar and they wouldn't know which end to hold it.

Yes, I think Dylan and Cohen are dull and I'd gladly never hear either again as long as I live. Midnight Vultures - good album, but I don't love it, some interesting stuff going on there, but a missed opportunity.

Yes, I think Dylan and Cohen are dull and I'd gladly never hear either again as long as I live.
Two of my choices of music I never ever want to listen to again would be the Rubettes and Mud which you mentioned in the non-canonical thread, Dr.C. Bloody hell our tastes are even more different than I thought. Abba is a shining diamond compared to those two.

'Flowers of Romance' (PiL, came after 'Metal Box')

Alex - nice to see you're looking out for my recommendations.I think that in moderation Mud and The Rubettes and many, many other bubblegum records of the early 70's are damn fine. I play them at home and in the car. But then I would, wouldn't I - I mean for god's sake I LIKE DISCO TOO, remember?

Your approach (not YOU, your approach) seems humourless and boring - it's not the fact that you like Leonard Cohen, Nick Drake et al, each to his own, it's the fact that you treat them with such po-faced reverence and sneer at anything slightly fun and trashy that drives me nuts!

Your approach (not YOU, your approach) seems humourless and boring
Maybe it is. I'll have to think about it. Actually I can just hear "Tiger Feet" in my brain (another thread) and it is not so bad. But if I would hear it in real I would surely not like it. Humour in music is a difficult subject I find. I do not listen to music for fun usually that is true. Zappa's lyrics and music were full of humour I feel though I am not an expert. But Mud are so forced, so much lacking in subtlety, so peasant-like, so ridiculous. They don't make me laugh or enjoy myself. Their music annoys me. As Nick Drake might annoy you. Everyone his taste. I accept yours. Why don't you accept mine, Dr.C.? But you have definitely hit a chord there with the humourlessness. As I hate (the strong word again) humourless people and fear that I am one of them which hopefully is not true. At least not 100%.

What's wrong with peasants?

I'm with you on Mutations and Midnight Vultures, though, Alex. I think Mutations is a beautiful collection of songs, whereas MV, for the most part, is a big boring statement.

What's wrong with peasants?
Nothing really. I just don't like their music. They are better at other things.

Like farming? Or tithing gold?

Alex - of course I 'accept' your taste. It's your call - no problem with me, but I am intrigued to know more about how and why your taste has been formed, and what it is about so much music that annoys you. You say you don't listen to music for fun. I suppose 'fun' is far too simple and worn-out word to use. I'm looking for release, I suppose, or abandon. I find that New Order or Chic or The Human League or The Ramones or Hot Chocolate or The Mighty Diamonds or The Ramones or Crispy Ambulance or Daft Punk or Abba or The Standells provide this - in different places and times. I'm transported as much by Joy Divison on headphones in my front room as by the intro of "Le Freak" at high volume at a party. I don't know what it is that these bands do other than to make me feel glad to be alive. Music that doesn't do this has no use.

I'm not in the least interested in what artists have to 'say' in the literal sense of what is contained within the lyrics. (There are possibly two exceptions to this, Ray Davies and Vic Godard). However, the intro of Human League's "Love Action" or the breakdown in Daft Punk's "One More Time" "say" more to me than the combined works of Dylan, Cohen, Drake, Loudon fucking Wainwright and Joni bleeding Mitchell. Bring 'em all on. While we're at it every single Dylanologist can take a running jump too.

Lost in Music.

Why do you listen to music, Alex?

Why do you listen to music, Alex? This will be short as it is late, sorry. Btw I like a lot of very different music and when you say there is so much music that annoys me that is very relative. It just seems to be a lot of music you like.

You said you are looking for abandon. That is one thing. I would call it the metaphysical aspect of music. Or maybe the kick aspect. I like to immerse myself into music. One of the first times it happened was with Genesis "Selling England by the Pound". There is an instrumental passage in "The Battle of Epping Forest" where time stands still when I listen to it. I can hardly describe it but there is something transcendental happening. Another forming experience around 1980 were Keith Jarrett's Sun Bear Concerts. They are alternating hot and cold baths between the most beautiful harmonic and melodic parts and total disharmony. And they inspire me. I loved to write letters to this music.

Another thing are the lyrics. I started listening to songwriters later on. And for example Joni Mitchell's and Laurie Anderson's lyrics grip me. Joni is a poet and I like poetry. And she is a romantic which relates to me. Laurie's lyrics are often very interesting and strange observations. That is it I like it when other people can put observations into words I could not. But usually I only listen to the lyrics if I really like the music first.
I listen to music also for atmosphere I must confess. The Cowboy Junkies for example can make very nice background music when you are with the right person(s).

I love the adventure of music. New sounds I have never heard of. Innovativeness. In pop music I find less and less of that and I feel I will return to Jazz one day. Classical music bores me usually after a while (except some Bach, Chopin and Satie maybe) as it is dead and does not evolve. My last discovery in this respect was Giant Sand. A genius who has music in his blood. It is stuff you only get into after some time but then you do not get out anymore. He is in a way crazy and I have got a weakness for oddballs.

I like the voice in music. Especially if it is female. It signifies something very human for me. That is one reason why I do not care for someone like Daft Punk. That is roboter music with roboter voices. Dead. Billie Holiday for example has got an unbelievable voice. You can hear all her hard life in there (or am I hallucinating here). Mary Margaret O'Hara totally knocked me over when I heard her sing the first time.

Enough for tonight. I love music as you do. But very often it is not the same kind of music and maybe I love it in adifferent way.

I think Mariah Carey's "Emotions" was underated following her self titled debut.

alex in mainhattan's posts are funnier than the 'SPROCKETS' skits on the old saturday Night Live. Good job

We're as far apart as it's possible to be, Alex. Like the North Pole and The South Pole, or Michael Owen and Carsten Janker, or hot baths and cold baths.

or hot baths and cold baths
Cold baths. Mmm. I am not as extreme. But I like my cold morning shower. After the hot one of course.

I would like to know where our musical tastes overlap. Just a small list of my favourite pop/rock artists out of the top of my head.
Which ones do you like?
Cocteau Twins - Red House Painters - Swell - Idaho - Field Mice - Smiths - Velvet Underground - Sonic Youth - Yo La Tengo - Gun Club - Neil Young - Laurie Anderson - Joni Mitchell - Joy Division - Giant Sand - The Cure - Cat Power - Cowboy Junkies - Brian Eno (not everything) - Roxy Music - Feelies - House of Love - PJ Harvey - Rickie Lee Jones - Tom Waits - REM - Wipers - 16 Horsepower - Robert Wyatt - Flying Nun stuff like Chills, Clean, Jean Paul Sartre Experience etc.

Ok, then what do I like from the list?

Smiths - great, but hardly listen to them these days - just the odd track.

Velvets - of course, with a strong bias towards Loaded.

Sonic Youth - Sister/Goo/Dirty. Haven't bothered since Dirty.

Joy Division - I have everything and it's all wonderful

Eno - the 4 solo albums 1973-77 (Before and After Science, Another Green World....etc). I ought to investigate some of the other stuff, but the ambient works are not for me.

Roxy - pretty much all, especially the debut, For Your Pleasure and Viva!

Feelies - Crazy Rhythms and The Good Earth are good.

REM - at various times I've liked them very much, but they seem totally irrelevant now.

Robert Wyatt - I SHOULD investigate his solo work and early Soft Machine, but haven't got around to it yet.

Chills - the singles on the Kaleidoscope World comp are fantastic, and Brave Words should have been, but was ruined by awful production. Submarine Bells is OK.

The Clean - early motorik stuff is very overrated, but I love "Vehicle" from 1990-ish. I heard an excellent track from the album they did this year, and may get it.

The only ones I play with any regularity would be Joy Div, Loaded and Roxy. With respect your list seems a little old hat to me. Too little pop, too little electronics.

Too little pop, too little electronics
That is apparently where our taste differ. But I 100% agree on what you say about Eno, VU, The Smiths, Roxy and Joy Div. But on the other hand those are so classic that almost any pop/rock music lover should like them.

As this thread is totally torn apart by us now anyway which would be the electronic and pop music you would recommend me as essential? Maximum 10 artists. The closest I would come to electronic/pop would be Electronic's excellent debut in 1991 I guess. Old hat as well of course.

I'd rather throw 10 artists in your direction who I think are essential. Rather than limit it to genres (electronic, pop, soul), I'd rather just mix and match. Here goes :

Sly and The Family Stone. The Small Faces. Neu! The Human League. Chic. Madonna. The Ramones. ABC. X-Ray Spex. The Slits.

Sly and The Family Stone. That's soul or something isn't it. Not my cup of tea.
The Small Faces. I have got a cd of old stuff flying around somewhere. I listened to it once. If there is dated music this is.
Neu! Have heard of them only recently. A black spot in my pop music knowledge. What should I buy? I thought of the first record.
The Human League. I have got a greatest hits I listened to two or three times. I actually like them but not too much. A little shallow I feel.
Chic. Dance music of the 80s?
Madonna. Have nothing except the "Into the Groove" cover of Sonic Youth which I love. I feel I should have Madonna in my collection. Which record?
The Ramones. American punk. I have got two X albums I like but I think X is different. What would be your first buy concerning the Ramones?
ABC. I am a pop ignorant. They had a smash hit in the eighties which I would probably recognize in the radio.
X-Ray Spex. I have to get their album. They made only one good one didn't they. Germ Free Adolescents. I love the singer. A power girl.
The Slits. Guess I prefer X-Ray Spex but I am not sure. Another one album band or am I wrong?

You should definitely check out Robert Wyatt Dr.C. If you can stand his voice you will love him. He created his own musical cosmos. Forget Soft Machine. Shleep or Dondestan are masterpieces.

Your list is at least as dated as mine Dr.C. It is all 60s, 70s and 80s. Where are the electronics? Neu!? But that music is thirty years old. Most of the bands you mentioned don't make music anymore. So what is the electronic album I missed in the last ten years?

Dated doesn't mean crap. Neu - buy Neu! or Neu 75.

Essential 90's Electronics - Aphex Twin - just about anything. Orbital II, Leftfield - "Leftism", Ultramarine - "Every Man and Woman is a Star", The Orb - "U.F.OFF - best of", Boards of Canada - "Music Has a Right to Children", Underworld - "Dubnobasswithmyheadman" or "Second Toughest in the Infants" .

Dated doesn't mean crap.
I never said that. But you said my selection was a little old hat. IMHO your first one was a very old hat. From the electronic albums I own "Leftism" and The Orb's "Adventures beyond the Ultraworld". Never play them though. Aphex Twin I tried but was not convinced. Same for Boards of Canada. The others I do not know. But I will check them out.