Explain to my brother why Green Day and Blink 182 are not punk.

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It's simple really, just tell why Green Day and Blink 182 are not punk. I'll print the responses and give them to my brother, a 15 yr old with a skater superiority complex, to try to set him straight.

A little background: We were watching tv and a punk band comes on. I say "they're not punk at all", my brother says "yea Blink 182 and Green Day are punk". I've tried to persuade him, I can't. This scares me.

To redeem my brother a little bit I will say that he has learned about Nick Drake and is able to recognize his songs in movies. However, my brother did say he sounded like a drag queen. Ergh.

That was more detail than I planned, sorry.

― Lindsey B, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hm. Well, why can't they be punk? If they say they're punk, there ya go. :-) People were arguing about what punk meant back in 1978, hell, before that.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That doesn't work. I say I'm a unicorn. Someone is gonna make me prove it one day. I may really believe I'm a unicorn and make lots and lots of money saying I'm a unicorn but really I'm not a unicorn, just delusional.

― Lindsey B, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think Green Day are punk.

― Sean, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ergh!

― Lindsey B, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This is another reason why genre names are sucky.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Being a Thread in which Punke Is Distilled Down to its TRUE and ONLIE CORE

― mark s, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

(perhaps if we lock lindsey's brother in an all white room with mark s, we might produce the much feted treatise on punk and this newly learned young man might take this sacred knowledge to his peers and spread the word from coast to coast dethroning all false-punk bands.

or perhaps it's not so much that green day and blink arent punk [since both climbed up through basement and vfw hall shows to superstardom...much like, oh, i dunno...the clash...i doubt it] but that they're just not *very good* [which is even more subjective than whether or not something is "punk"] at what they've set out to do. if you know ov better punk bands lindsey, then turn him on to them instead. or let it alone.

there's always that "satirical punk band" guy which posted earlier. maybe he can set bro straight.)

― jess, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

make him some cheap cassettes with black flag, the misfits, electric eels, and the stooges on them. he'll hate them at first, but eventually they'll take hold, he'll start making fun of his friends who like green day and blink 182, and everything'll be OK.

anyway: green day have admitted in the past that they weren't punk (and multi-platinum sales = not really punk); blink 182 look and sound like they'd rather be playing frat parties or MTV's super-sk8-o- rama-spring-break-special than a dingy basement. which isn't really punk.

― your null fame, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I remember reading some interview with Blink-182 in which they pointed out that complaining about what is or is not punk is the least punk thing you can possibly do.

So, sorry Lindsey B, I think your brother is right.

― Ian, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm not saying I'm punk at all. However if I was in Blink182 I'd be saying that as well to cover my ass. Green Day even said something like that...how convenient.

― Lindsey B, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Punk does not equal music. Punk equals being poor and mad. Therefore, Green Day and Blink 182 are not punk. However, they play the same music that punks play and they sound like a great number of official punk bands. Give your brother $500 because he's not as silly as you.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I guess I don't consider punk as such an abstract concept like you all do. How ignorant, what a fool I am. And a poor, mad fool at that. For future reference, a better adjective for me would be stubborn or annoying (as you have probably already thought), but I'm not lighthearted enough to be silly.

Boo hoo.

― Lindsey B, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Are you still going to print out the responses and give them to your brother?

― Ian, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's not important that he know what Punk is, it's important he know what punks WAS. Labels die after the first ten years anyway, so your null fame was right: make the little snot a tape with The Ramones, The Clash (they sound like RANCID!), The Sex Pistols and The Germs and he'll learn his history.

― JM, Tuesday, 20 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I sympathise Lindsey B! I thought Daft Punk were punk - I mean they even SAY SO in their fucking NAME - but oh no, everyone here had to 'set me straight'.

I don't think Blink 182 and Green Day are punk, because punk to me nowadays suggests some kind of heritage industry - "skater pop" would cover it better. Your answers imply you don't see punk as an abstract concept and you're annoyed that we do - but you came along assuming a shared definition that doesn't exist, so the least you can do now is give us yours, I think.

― Tom, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Also if I thought I was punk, and my big brother made me a tape with loads of old bands and said 'this is proper punk', I would wipe my arse on it. Kids today, they got no respect. Use different marketing strategies please. (eg find what Green Day rare thing he hasn't heard then tape him the [insert old punx here] and say it's them.)

― Tom, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

tom you are so SNEEEEKEEEE!!!

― maura, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tell him you don't give a shit if Green Day and Blink 182 are divine light mooney sonic art rockers, they still are shite and deserve to die slowly and painfully and alone.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think Primal Scream are punk. Although people may wish to apply what I just said above to them too.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

alone in a group or alone during solo projects?

― mark s, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ALONE WITH EVERYBODY. duh.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Green Day said they stopped being punk. & They did. But yes, get the boy some punk history. Also Voidoids, LAMF, Dictators, Patti Smith, Black Flag, X.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

find what Green Day rare thing he hasn't heard then tape him the [insert old punx here] and say it's them

Didn't they do that (sort of) in the High Fidelity movie?

Completely off-topic newbie question, after re-reading that highly entertaining Clash thread: when someone says something is "k- [adjective]", what that mean?

― Jeff W, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

k = raised to the power of a million suns (cf gram written g >>> kilogram written kg)

― mark s, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey, when I was 16 I thought Kerplunk was punk... I thought that Offspring were punk back then... Green Day opened for Bad Religion and I thought that was punk... I also liked Fugazi and Stiff Little Fingers and the Clash and the Minutemen and Descendents and Circle Jerks and Huggybear and Bikini Kill and a number of other loud bands that bugged my parents and I thought they were punk... Then, when Green Day got all famous and stuff, I decided they weren't punk any more cuz they weren't sellin' tickets for their shows for no more than $5 like Fugazi. They weren't keepin' it real.

Last week, I threw on my Kerplunk CD and, I'll be darned. They may not be "punk" anymore, but that CD is pretty punk, if I do say so myself.

Maybe it aint Clash punk or Dischord records punk, but come on, it was released in 1992. Nirvana's "Nevermind" had gone 7 times platinum by then--NOTHING was really "punk" at that point.

― cybele, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Re Hi-Fid haHA Tom E = Nick H

― mark s, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

k- pref.

[rare; poss fr. `kilo-' prefix] Extremely. Rare among hackers, but quite common among crackers and warez d00dz in compounds such as `k-kool' /K'kool'/, `k-rad' /K'rad'/, and `k-awesome' /K'aw`sm/. Also used to intensify negatives; thus, `k-evil', `k- lame', `k-screwed', and `k-annoying'. Overuse of this prefix, or use in more formal or technical contexts, is considered an indicator of lamer status.

OOOPS!

― Sarah, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

tom you sound like my kind of people. we should compare lists.

― nick h., Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You can play the Descendants, then Green Day, then the Clash and it doesn't sound too far off. So yes, Green Day *is* punk. But they are obviously closer to the Descendants than they are to the Clash, and the slight difference between Descendants-style and Green Day-style is important. Thats why its called Neo-Punk. To give you an idea of what they sound like. eg. "It's very, very punkish, but post-Grunge, not Pre-Grunge."
Blink 182 is a little too deeply pop, and are merely an attempt to clone the Green Day sound...albeit neutered and tamed. Ergo, they are Pseudo-Neo-Punk.
So technically, they both fall under the big umbrella called Punk...but they are just further away from the Ramones and the Dead Boys than you feel comfortable with. Because they are just a mutt and nowhere is their home....

― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would respond to your insults but I'm watching the football. Sensitively.

― Tom, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

because punk is shit

― bob snoom, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Because Punk is Shit

I detect a Polka fan.

― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This is all very Zen.
"Lord Buddha...Does the dog have a Punk Nature?"

― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

So anyway I got up got on the bus and the driver didn't even say anything so that was punk, oh and dope. I then went to a coffee shop got a cup and like the guy behind the counter didn't smile and I laughed and said he was so punk. He growled and said he wasn't punk but was infact hiphop. He was busy keeping it real, which I remarked at the time was something of a priority for myself. He nodded slowly. I then continued saying that I wouldn't normally frequent this global slut hut of a coffee shop but as I had a bit of money selling the coffee shop some of my punk music for their "radical" advertising campaign I figured yo I'm taking em out from the inside. Which is dope. The hiphop guy said that he didn't work here and he too was being paid money for his music so they it could be used in advertising this coffee shop. Which is dope. One of the conditions was that he could use the coffee shop as a place to hang whatever. No sellout I said. Dude wheres my car said he. Over there? I said pointing towards a Jeep Wrangler, yeah thats the hush puppy. So we jump in and cruise the hoods we grew up but elected to not live in and we connected with our people from the interior at a little over 30mph. It's good to go back. He drank cri-stal and me I had an obscure Canadian beer of which there is now a limited stock in the world. I thought of the extremely rare fender mid eighties guitar I was to buy in the afternoon and how I was going to persuade the shop guys to do some pre-stage damage to it so it looked more punk. My friend did not think this as extravegant nor I for his desire to buy a new pair of trainers everyday. Hey why not he nodded. Yeah why not I said Keepin it real he yelled as the rear suspension started to bump n grind like a bass girl. Man your so punk I smiled.

― tom, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That story's punk-meets-indie-at-a-party-thrown-by-avant-noise-where- no-wave-keeps-trying-to-hit-on-teen-pop-who's-studiously-ignoring- free-jazz-who-couldn't-care-less-as-he's-enjoying-a-plate-of-grind- core-hip-hop-with-a-side-of-thrash.

― Prude, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Courtney Love once told me that when she was a kid she thought Kate Bush was punk.

― Ann Archy, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

She wasn't? ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think it would be more interesting to make him a prog-rock tape. Tape Classic Yes and Nursery Cryme. There's a better chance it would sound unlike anything he's familiar with. It would also give him a deeper understanding and appreciation of punk rock.

Discuss: Green Day is punk. Fugazi is prog.

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

She was proto-dark wave, silly. You of all people oughtta know that, Ned

― Poxy Roller, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nick Drake does sound like a drag queen.

― Wheeler, Wednesday, 21 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two months pass...

Punk is ever changing, as with everything else in the world even todays punk isnt considered punk to yesterday's. Music changes it always will and there isnt anything we can do about it its just another form of punk.

― Matt Skeels, Friday, 25 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

punk is a hairstyle

― bob snoom, Friday, 25 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nick Drake does sound like a drag queen.

An unfairly ignored claim. I will do something about it.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 25 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

four weeks pass...

well in my opinion greenday and blink are not punk but they are really kool and two of my favourite bands tell your bro he dont know jack all!

― kristian smart, Friday, 22 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

four years pass...

I dont know about blink 182 being punk but i know for sure GREEN DAY is punk...you think punk is just music or a type of music..what you dont know is that its a fucking lifestlye and thats exactly where GREEN DAY came from...they were basically born that way...so........yea....fuck you.

― Elisa Cantu, Friday, 19 May 2006 17:55 (twenty years ago)

Are people born punks or made punks? Is it nature or nuture? Pls discuss.

― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 19 May 2006 18:06 (twenty years ago)

they were basically born that way

― Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Friday, 19 May 2006 18:08 (twenty years ago)

Then there should be some kind of genetic stick-test we can administer, no?

― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 19 May 2006 18:11 (twenty years ago)

its all about the midiclorian count from your blood

― late to the bloom to the er (latebloomer), Friday, 19 May 2006 18:18 (twenty years ago)

blink182 is poppunk or w/e u wanna call it, i mean theyre cool n all, despite the fact that most poppunk bands rnt that good, theyre just a good rock group, since rock has like a million genres now, every band could propably have their own genre, green day just sux, sorry, well at least i dont like their new stuff n all, dookie kerplunk and 1039 smoothed out slappy hours is where its at

― luke rheman, Friday, 19 May 2006 22:38 (twenty years ago)

some of the greatest bands ever are punk. besides green day are a punk group that have been around since the begining of punk...they were basically born that way...so........yea....fuck you.

― Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 20 May 2006 13:24 (twenty years ago)

"some of the greatest bands ever are punk. besides green day are a punk group that have been around since the begining of punk...they were basically born that way...so........yea....fuck you."

ok, so we have 3 ILM quotes smashed together here.

"some of the greatest bands ever are bland"
"ICP are a rap group that have been around since the begining of rap"
and...
the 'born that way' thing...
ok, so 2 out 3 ain't bad, i enjoy.

― eedd, Saturday, 20 May 2006 15:33 (twenty years ago)

http://www.nigelholton.com/images/More%20Posters/Carnosaur.jpg

― Jimmy Mod is a super idol of The MARS SPIRIT (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Saturday, 20 May 2006 16:08 (twenty years ago)

personally I think I may actually prefer "they were basically born that way" to "ICP are a rap group..." or maybe even "some of the greatest bands ever are bland"

― Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Saturday, 20 May 2006 16:47 (twenty years ago)

oi! oi! oi! punky chips ahoy!

― le hague, Sunday, 21 May 2006 10:16 (twenty years ago)

"green day are a punk group that have been around since the begining of punk..."

Well, yes, they have "been around since the begining of punk" insofar as they had all individually been born in 1976.

Otoh, I'd guess all the members of Boyzone have individually been around since the begining of punk so I'm not sure that this proves anything in particular.

Except, of course, that they're all at least 30 by now: which iirc was one of the main reasons given by those who used to say that e.g. The Stranglers and The Vibrators could't really be considered punk....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Sunday, 21 May 2006 13:14 (twenty years ago)

your gay your bother is right

― bobby jack, Sunday, 28 May 2006 08:04 (twenty years ago)

So now that the original poster's brother is 19 or 20 -- did he go further into the music? Or did his musical tastes stay in the mall.

When Green Day were touring in a van (pre bookmobile) and staying on floors, they were punks who made pop music.

Years later, after conquering the charts many times over - they were pop stars who made the occasional punk rock song - like "I wanna be a minority."

― Uncle Tom (Uncle Tom), Monday, 29 May 2006 06:05 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

they are so punk, why do u think they're not? they do their own thing and not give a shit what others think. they dont claima to be punk, so whats the problem? some ignorant people just give them a label that they're a punk band that does drugs and does whatever, but they dont know them. have u listened to ehir songs. if no, dont judge them. if u have, and still think that they're not good well whatever.....

― Maria Tran (whatsername_xy), Friday, 28 July 2006 03:50 (nineteen years ago)

let's start using 'punk' to describe an outdated style of teen attire
then let's start using 'punky' to describe Green Day & Blink 182's music

― nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Friday, 28 July 2006 05:25 (nineteen years ago)

Band Too 'Punky' For Cookie Commercial

Los Angeles, CA (WFN) -- How do you know when your favorite punk band has become "too punky?" When the lead singer's vocals scare off the big-wigs at a corporate cookie company.

That's what happened to Art Barrios, frontman for the L.A.-based band Audio Karate, when he was recently asked to record vocals for a Chips Ahoy commercial produced by Devo's Mark Mothersbaugh.

Barrios lost his shot at the big-time when the Chips Ahoy powers-that-be told him his voice was "...too punky for chocolate chip cookie commercials."

Barrios, whose band's new record "Space Camp" is in stores now, says they went with a singer who was "wackier and goofier" and his vocals wound up on the cutting-room floor.

He claims he couldn't care less about that, though he's still miffed that he lost the opportunity to get all those cookie commercial royalties.

― le hague (le hague), Saturday, 29 July 2006 06:26 (nineteen years ago)

They should get Chris Barnes.

― Marmot 4-Tay: I'll sip from his well without hesitation. (marmotwolof), Saturday, 29 July 2006 06:31 (nineteen years ago)

Wasn't punk more of a Movement than a genre. Kinda like Cubism. Just something that ended.

― from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Sunday, 30 July 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

― Uncle Tom (Uncle Tom), Sunday, 30 July 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

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