AR Kane - 69 : classic or dud?

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big shoegazer/post rock influence or just mumbling over non-sensical guitar noises??

ff, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

hurrah! its a tautology!

cw, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

It's a classic, just wish it didn't have "Sulliday" on it to spoil it.

Rob M, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

It's both, which is just fine by me.

Andy, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

big fat dud. Impossible to get into for some reason i still can't phantom. Which is strange because the music isn't that hard to get. Simon Reynolds writings on the band are classic though.

Omar, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I think _i_ is the much better album; although they don't spend much of it doing the shoegazer-style stuff, what is there ("Down", "Supervixens" etc.) is far superior. _69_ is pretty seminal though, and it does have quite a few very lovely moments like _Sperm Whale Tripover_. So I'd say classic before dud.

Of course it bugs me that few care to acknowlege the brilliance of the Kitchens Of Distinction in taking A.R. Kane's basic sound and making killer pop songs out of it.

Tim, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Uber-dud. Bad at everything they tried (Noise, dub, ambient, pop). 69 was bad, the double album a nightmare.

Dr. C, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I see once again that Dr. C and I live on considerably different planets. But I enjoy the one I'm on. ;-) I would refer everyone to my rather glowing review in the AMG, but apparently they're upgrading their network (hurrah! no more 'too many users,' I hope). Suffice to say -- almost sickeningly brilliant, and I mean that with all intentionality. The double-disc comp of rare/out of print stuff that a friend helped create for me just confirms it all the more -- pity about _New Clear Child_, though. The fact that the Veldt, the single most underrated band of the nineties that wasn't the Walkabouts, specifically wrote a song in homage to A R Kane on their full debut makes perfect sense to such as I.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Spot on Tim. Kitchens took the *sounds* that AR Kane faffed about with and made it into music worth listening to. Are they still together? I lost em after the second album...

Tom, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Do you mean the Kitchens or AR Kane? The Kitchens made a couple more fine records and released a stray single or two. Patrick Fitzgerald now has a solo-y outfit called Stephen Hero; he self-released an EP late last year, which Julian "Soupy" Swales plays on. There's also a Primal Scream/Weather prophets connection, but I forget where.

Andy, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Well, Andy took the words out of my mouth, so to hell with him. ;-) But yes, grand albums, great singles, Kitchens were wonderful and a half, to the point where my low-level case of tinnitus resulted from a particularly fantastic show they put on on their final American tour. Good way to go. ;-)

Saying that the Kitchens somehow improved on A R Kane is a strange idea. However *does* one improve on perfection? Thanks, I'm here all week.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Well I don't think that the Kitchens were necessarily the better band, and besides A.R. Kane were definitely pop-focused on a lot of i. I definitely think that they're more underrated though, and I think at a time when most British bands think they have to choose between writing unadventurous pop or making pretentious-yet-uncreative artwank eight minute singles, the Kitchens' ability to make pop that was swoonsome, catchy *and* risk-taking musically is an incredibly instructive example.

The Kitchens made two more albums, "The Death of Cool" (which is by far their best) and "Cowboys & Aliens". They then did another single in about '96 for Fierce Panda under the moniker of KOD I believe, but folded soon after.

Tim, Thursday, 22 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Cursed unfinished thoughts. A.R.Kane were hard to phantom although they weren't hard to get *sound-wise*, all that soft singing and gentle guitar sound. But I have to agree with the good Dr.C that with all the cool influences, they were shockingly bad at everything they tried to do (esp. the dub-angle and the amazing lack of melodies). I always felt that Talk Talk, Spacemen 3 and Primal Scream on "Higher that the Sun" took the same idea and then made something really amazing.

Omar, Friday, 23 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Omar, can you really, *really* sit down and listen to "Catch My Drift" and then say they don't do dub well? Would Seefeel even exist without that song?

Tim, Friday, 23 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I would love to Tim, sadly I don't have the cd. Although scanning the titles of 'i' i'm tempted to buy that record on the basis of most of the song-titles. Napster doesn't help in this case.

Omar, Friday, 23 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Hey, Ned, I think we ARE on the same planet, just a different part! Come over to my area one day. We play the Kingsmen and the Electric Prunes all day and look forward to when rock n' roll will evolve into something a little more sophisticated!

In fact, having kicked AR Kane to the ground yesterday, I've had a nagging wish to actually hear '69' or 'I' again to see if my criticism was valid. That's the problem with my 'culling the runts of the litter policy' (see another thread!) - there's no going back. Maybe Napster will turn up something. Ah well - back to "Louie Louie".

Dr. C, Friday, 23 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Yes, but do you play Gonn and Adjeef the Poet as well? I have standards, see. ;-)

Really should give the _Nuggets_ box a long overdue relisten.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

patrick from the kitchens also did a solo record under the name 'fruit', it was really very sad and disappointingly dull. 'strange free world' is an amazing album.

keith, Friday, 23 February 2001 01:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

three months pass...
Haha. I just bought it today for £5.99 (= US$8.49) today. That ranks as "cheap" for UK prices. I haven't heard it prior to this moment, and I will contribute an answer after I give it a few in-depth listens. =;-)

Kodanshi, Thursday, 31 May 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
sorry, just found the thread. classic, classic, classic. a masterpiece. baby milk snatcher is one of the greatest songs of the past 20 years. anyone heard tahiti 80s cover of a love from outer space? blimey, just goes to show that if you wait long enough, everything becomes popular.

Gavster, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

'69' sounds like the Cocteau Twins tuning up!

flowersdie, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Has anyone heard "Frogtoise" by Schneider TM? it sounds like what "i" era (or as I like to call it "supercallifragilisticexpealidocious") A.R.Kane might be doing now with glitchy touches.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 1 November 2002 06:30 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Mmm, might as well "correct" my previous postings. Repurchased 69 last year (quite easily btw and midprice) and of course now think it's quite amazing (esp. the second half). So this selling records and then buying them again after a period of time thing really seems to work. ;)

Omar (Omar), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 13:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Hurrah! Omar has seen the light!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I acquired this from ebay recently and haven't yet given it enough time. Some obnoxious vocals amongst the pleasant ones which has turned me off a bit so far.

christhamrin (christhamrin), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:45 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
woooo me and AR Kane are having a moment tonight! this is it

Dan I. (Dan I.), Friday, 25 August 2006 06:45 (twelve years ago) Permalink

69 is still a classic in my head, 'Spermwhale Trip Over' especially. A lot of those EPs are awesome too, the 'Lolita' one in particular.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 25 August 2006 07:38 (twelve years ago) Permalink

A lot of those EPs are awesome too, the 'Lolita' one in particular.

Always the Up Home! EP, always.

Venga (Venga), Friday, 25 August 2006 07:48 (twelve years ago) Permalink

whither Alex? I heard something he did with some Mexican guy wot calls himself Fax or something like that...seemed promising...then nothing...

pulled Sufi out the other day...didn't hold up as much as I thought it would...maybe more due to the lousy CD quality than the tunes...

hank (hank s), Friday, 25 August 2006 11:40 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I think Rudi is a big cheese at Virgin Digital now or whatever it's called. Or at least he was a year or so ago when they launched.

Venga (Venga), Friday, 25 August 2006 11:44 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I remember thinking COLOSSAL DUD at the time, after Simon Reynolds had persuaded me to buy their album, but I haven't heard them since

dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 12:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

... mind you I bought "World of Echo" as well and didn't like that either, so that makes me the anti-ILM I suppose

dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 12:16 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I'm gonna listen to AR Kane tonight now! Woooo!

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:17 (twelve years ago) Permalink

i agree dada; i bought an a r kane elpee just last year after years of reynolds/ilm hype-pressure, still not feeling it.

his voice is a big part of this.

but also not enough rock.

a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:18 (twelve years ago) Permalink

sort of creepy how ILM seems to be on the same wavelength as me lately; first the Outside Closer thread pops back up after I go to the store and forget to look for it, then this one gets bumped right after I order 69 and i (side note: Stephin Merritt = secret AR Kane fan? he probably thinks they're white though)

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:46 (twelve years ago) Permalink


Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 25 August 2006 16:02 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Ned don't do that to me

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Friday, 25 August 2006 16:08 (twelve years ago) Permalink

just finishing up with i; first quarter cheesy and dated and loaded with unpleasant mental associations, everything else totally great. even the interludes. "Catch My Drift" is probably forgettable outside of the context of the album, but right now it is providing the perfect comedown from the incredible "Down"-"Supervixens"-"Insect Love" triple-whammy.

gonna throw 69 in next; report to follow.

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 22:22 (twelve years ago) Permalink

man why would anyone hate on "Sulliday"? that was great! at least twice as good as "Dizzy", which is probably my least-favorite track so far. not bad, though; lives up to its name, if nothing else.

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 22:46 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Good, good...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 22:51 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I suddenly see the Talk Talk comparison in "The Sun Falls Into the Sea" and "The Madonna Is With Child". Kind of facile, though; the only real similarity seems to be the occasional surfacing of a very distinctive sort of choked, yelping vocal.

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 23:04 (twelve years ago) Permalink

All right, so now that that's over... I enjoyed 69 quite a bit, but I'm not sure how I really feel about it yet. It seems very monochrome -- they both do, actually, but i is grey like computer-generated images of variously-polished metals catching the light, and 69 is grey like watercolor paintings of unpleasant beaches. Taken together, they're absolutely great, but I worry that 69, though it offers a great counterpoint to i, is a bit too flat and unvaried to stand on its own.

But these are obviously just random fractured first impressions, and should be taken with enough grains of salt to kill your grandparents.

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 23:16 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Okay, so, as predicted, my second listen to 69 was not nearly as enjoyable; kind of dull, didn't really do it for me. Maybe I'll listen again tonight. But -- and this I did not expect -- I now think that side 1 of i is pure genius, and "Crack Up" is easily their best song. Even "Snow Dream" is tolerable now. I can only assume that this is due to the sonic differences between my crappy car speakers and my crappy headphones.

bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Wednesday, 30 August 2006 16:18 (twelve years ago) Permalink

can someone please, please e-mail me the unlisted/hidden song on this album, track 11? please, please? i've been looking for this on dc and 5l5k for months, but i only ever find the first ten songs.
i know we're not supposed to do this on ilm anymore, but i'm a badass.
thank you.

blood bitch (blood bitch), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:55 (twelve years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

wow! did THE BELOVED just rip off A LOVE FROM OUTER SPACE and just make a whole album based on that one song or what?? i'm shocked.
another revelation from SPOTIFY!

piscesx, Monday, 30 March 2009 15:08 (nine years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

i bought these dudes' album like 14 years ago or so and thought it was totally forgettable. maybe time to revisit?

Poliopolice, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 20:28 (six years ago) Permalink

they had three albums, first two are classics but quite different from each other

gonna send him to outer space, to hug another face (NickB), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 20:47 (six years ago) Permalink

A slightly obvious and yet also misleading comparison, but in some ways A.R. Kane's early singles are to '69' as Disco Inferno's singles are to 'D. I. Go Pop'. I understood the early hosannas a lot more once i'd heard "Lollita", "Up" and "Green Hazed Daze". '69' is quite an inscrutable album by comparison, at least at first.

Tim F, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 20:52 (six years ago) Permalink

great, closest to the I get is the Americana cd and that is far from complete and duplicates lp stuff.
Looking forward to this.

Were the 1st 2 lps remastered over the last couple of years? I have cds of both of them but I know at least i is pretty ancient.
New Clear Child wasn't as good neither was the Sufi material.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 21:20 (six years ago) Permalink

years after ILM (read: Ned Raggett) convinced me to give them a listen, I love "i", and find 69 "totally forgettable". I'd definitely check out a singles comp tho!

visions of kreayshawn with joanna newsom (bernard snowy), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 21:58 (six years ago) Permalink

Tim f otm re: DI comparisons

windjammer voyage (blank), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 22:40 (six years ago) Permalink

Yeah that's a sharp comparison.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 22:47 (six years ago) Permalink

No remasters for the two albums yet afaik. Rudy Tambala has been answering fan questions here for a minute. He corrected me on the assumption Adrian Sherwood mixed one of their 12"s. I coulda sworn I got that info from his former bandmate...

Pacific Rinko (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 01:27 (six years ago) Permalink

The albums were rereleased some years back, but not remastered, I think. Could be wrong.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 11 July 2012 01:27 (six years ago) Permalink

I saw a 2004 release noted on rateyourmusic but somebody else has said that was a straight reissue of the previous version.
Hope that means there was a 90s remaster, otherwise the cds are the same as the late 80s which I don't think can be true.

Hopefully this singles compi will mean somebody looks at redoing the lps.

I think I saw them live once at the Clarendon, Hammmersmith. Can't remember who with.
Have hoped that a live set or 2 would appear on Dime or similar.

THey started as a 3 piece live if i'm remembering right. Had a bassist called Russell who went onto play guitar with Terminal Cheesecake and later Skullflower.
I think they played live with a drum machine but could be wrong.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 11 July 2012 09:44 (six years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

He corrected me on the assumption Adrian Sherwood mixed one of their 12"s. I coulda sworn I got that info from his former bandmate...

I had heard this too - maybe even in the press way back when.

Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 04:56 (six years ago) Permalink

five months pass...

I bought a promotional copy of this record and it was filled with clippings, an old school one-sheet (stapled), a glossy photo, stickers, and other promo stuff.

Also, it rules.

purp (roxymuzak), Saturday, 16 February 2013 22:59 (five years ago) Permalink

Very cool!

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 17 February 2013 00:12 (five years ago) Permalink

<3 this album

harvester of lols (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 07:37 (five years ago) Permalink

four months pass...

"Sun Falls Into the Sea" has turned into one of my favorite songs from the 80s

my autocorrect is in Spanish right now (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 20 June 2013 05:27 (five years ago) Permalink

Enjoyed them a lot live when I saw them way back when

curmudgeon, Thursday, 20 June 2013 13:41 (five years ago) Permalink

four years pass...

Found this via the "music to get stoned to" thread ... Singles comp is making me :)
I hear Lansing Dreiden in here

calstars, Wednesday, 21 June 2017 01:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Weird thread where people disconnect and connect all the time to this band. The same seems to be happening to me. I remember being very disappointed by 69 when I first listened to it about ten years ago. I thought it was an uninspired mess. Now I listen to this singles comp and "Catch Your Drift" and it kind of klicks. They seem like a quite good blend of Cocteau Twins and MBV with a dash of dub. I have to investigate further. On my streaming service Deezer they are under three or four different names/spellings. Better to look for the songs to find the albums.

Ich bin kein Berliner (alex in mainhattan), Wednesday, 21 June 2017 21:55 (one year ago) Permalink

six months pass...

From Rudi on Facebook a couple of hours ago:

Derek. One little Indian owner, punk rocker and dedicated anarchist, man of the oppressed, anti corporate anti capitalist, animal rights activist, feminist, etc cliche etc. claims to have purchased the entire A.R.Kane catalogue for a few pennies, in perpetuity, and refuses to let the rights revert to the band ... [Insert four letter word of choice here]. As a result, we cannot do the '69' 30th anniversary box with Tees poster, goodies and dates we had been planning. Derek aims to re-press the vinyl (he does not have the masters so ripped from CD FFSake) and con y'all into buying it, and exploit the anniversary.We will take no part in this. A.R.Kane have never and will never see proceeds from OLI; no advance, no royalty. We made 69 on our own equipment with a £7K payment from RT - it sold 60,000 in year one. Never seen a penny. If I were you, and you want the re-issue, hang on in there ... cut from the original master tape is what you really need #ArtisticSlavery #MyArtToo

Let's expose them and their ilk - please share and Retweet, get the stories rollin'

@olirecords claim to have purchased our entire catalog from @RoughTradeRecs for a few pennies, in perpetuity, w'out our consent knowledge - they refuse to let the rights revert to the band - not so much #MeToo more #MyArtToo #ArtisticSlavery U ever had a powerful label rip u off?

— A.R.Kane (@InfoKane) January 2, 2018

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 2 January 2018 19:48 (nine months ago) Permalink

I wonder if he's still holding a grudge for them leaving One Little Indian back in '87.

A.R. Kane had released an E.P. When You're Sad on One Little Indian records in late 1986. Frustrated by the lack of support from One Little Indian, Alex Ayuli of the band approached 4AD owner, Ivo Watts-Russell to see if they would release a record on his label.[2] Derek Birkett the owner of One Little Indian, was under the impression that 4AD were trying to poach his band and along with label designer Paul White and Einar Örn Benediktsson from The Sugarcubes visited the 4AD offices in Alma Road to confront Watts-Russell.[2] Colin Wallace, a 4AD staff member, convened a team from the warehouse to support Watts-Russell. Despite a heated argument where a furious Birkett told Watts-Russell "You don't do that. You fucking stole my fucking band", A.R. Kane signed to 4AD for a one-off release.[2] Following the release of the Lolita EP they voiced their disappointment with One Little Indian who had failed to deliver on a promise that they could work with producer Adrian Sherwood. Watts-Russell suggested that they instead work with Martyn Young of Colourbox.[2]

Dan Worsley, Tuesday, 2 January 2018 19:56 (nine months ago) Permalink

I'm no great fan of this band or that album but that is shitty behaviour from One Little Indian. Indie labels are the worst.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Wednesday, 3 January 2018 14:24 (nine months ago) Permalink

It seems like there are multiple levels of *wrongness* to this (not all of it OLI) though I have no understanding of indie label economics.

I'm not sure the comparison to #metoo is a good one, mind.

djh, Wednesday, 3 January 2018 20:31 (nine months ago) Permalink

Wow, he used Einar as muscle for the meeting with Ivo Watts-Russell? I am imagining him playing the trumpet while they argued.

erry red flag (f. hazel), Wednesday, 3 January 2018 20:44 (nine months ago) Permalink

Or mewling "I lost my pony/In the big town/I'm a cowboy in the big city/Looking for my pony/I'm a cowboy/I'm a cowboy/I'm a cowboy"

Sanpaku, Thursday, 4 January 2018 04:01 (nine months ago) Permalink

I dunno, I once saw Einar challenge an entire venue to a fight when he got pelted with something during a Sugarcubes show.

henry s, Thursday, 4 January 2018 04:22 (nine months ago) Permalink

Dude was volatile. I once asked Bjork to autograph my ticket stub after a Sugarcubes show. She was sweet. Said, "I don't have a pen!". He jumped in and offered to autograph it for me. I think he asked me to put the stub in the palm of my hand - can't recall - made a fist and punched the stub -HARD - with this stupid horned-skull biker ring he had on. Then he walked away.

Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 4 January 2018 06:13 (nine months ago) Permalink

Regarding that 'incident' as posted by Dan Worsley .. um, isn't that pretty close to almost fair? Obviously I wasn't there but both people had 'protection' 'in case' it kicked off which it didn't..

It's not exactly Don Arden with a headache is it?

Mark G, Thursday, 4 January 2018 10:13 (nine months ago) Permalink

I recall Einar yelling at the audience - who wanted them to come back on for an encore - at the end of a gig in '89 I once saw "YOU PAID TO SEE US, WE DID NOT PAY TO SEE YOU!!!!!"

MaresNest, Thursday, 4 January 2018 12:23 (nine months ago) Permalink

Quite a guy is our Einar. The closest I've ever been to getting into a fight in the entire time I've lived in Glasgow was after The Sugarcubes played here in '88 and he came over and started talking to my girlfriend and me at the bar after the show and within two minutes started throwing punches at me for seemingly no reason whatsoever. He was so drunk that he never managed to actually land a punch on me and was soon escorted from the venue by the security.

stirmonster, Thursday, 4 January 2018 14:12 (nine months ago) Permalink

It's not exactly Don Arden with a headache is it?

Just another classic 4AD punch-up!

erry red flag (f. hazel), Thursday, 4 January 2018 15:15 (nine months ago) Permalink

"he came over and started talking to my girlfriend and me at the bar after the show and within two minutes started throwing punches at me for seemingly no reason whatsoever."

did you say "OUCH! THAT REALLY HURTS!"?

OLI seem to be cunts from everyone I've had contact with who worked with them (Patrick from KOD, Ian from Disco Inferno, and Rudy)

akm, Friday, 5 January 2018 16:21 (nine months ago) Permalink

Chumbawamba hates him too fwiw

sleeve, Friday, 5 January 2018 16:32 (nine months ago) Permalink

OLI have a shitload of old bands that were on Rough Trade listed on their current roster, so I think they must have bought a job lot of rights off them: Camper Van Beethoven, Beat Happening, Galaxie 500, Opal, Souled American, Woodentops, Band of Holy Joy, Straitjacket Fits etc

faust apes (NickB), Friday, 5 January 2018 16:33 (nine months ago) Permalink

In 1997 One Little Indian acquired parts of the old Rough Trade catalogue including landmark releases in AR Kane’s ‘i’, Shellyan Orphan’s ‘Century Flower’, Galaxie 500’s ‘?‘ and The Woodentops classic ‘Giant’. The roster also includes Mancunion indie heroes of the 80’s and 90’s respectively, Easterhouse and Marion – as well as The Boo Radley’s pre-Creation ‘Every Heaven EP’.

faust apes (NickB), Friday, 5 January 2018 16:37 (nine months ago) Permalink

five months pass...

They're now known as Jübl and have a new EP:

Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 6 June 2018 21:29 (four months ago) Permalink

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