Music for Posers/Poseurs/PøzRz

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In an open-minded group like this, I'm sure the last thing you want to do is judge someone by their musical tastes. But, if you had to—you know, in the fictional world of no other choices & a gun to your head— what would you say posers listen to? I'd have to say avant garde. Not experimental, but avant garde. Pretty brilliant deduction, eh?

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Doesn't it depend what they're posing AS?

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the avant garde is a far too challenging for one so halfhearted as to be a poser. my vote goes for the strokes.

― fields of salmon, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No no no, my dear fields of salmon. Posers don't listen to the Strokes, they listen to bands who are not as hooky or successful as the strokes but are part of a 'local scene'. The object of posing, after all, is to be seen - and who wants to be seen in the throngs of kids lining up to buy Is This It? in an HMV? I think most people who claim to like live underground rock music are fakers who'd prefer to be listening to Daft Punk.

(OK I don't actually think that. But I do think that's what posers would listen to. If they existed. Which let's face it they don't. It being another synonym for "people whose taste I don't understand".)

― Tom, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ILM seems to have got very bad tempered all of a sudden. lots of stupid arguments over 'taste'. i think tom's right on posers not really existing

― michael, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

More answers please. I have always dreamt of being a poser. What music do I have to buy to be considered a successful poser? ;-)

― alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Terry Callier, Buena Vista Social Club, Macy Gray

― dave q, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In this forum, it seems as it Britney Spears is the poseur 'artist' of choice. Pretending not to be too good to like crap. The new pose is anti-pose.

― Dave225, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dave225 is pretending not to like Britney, readers! What a poser!

― Tom, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ahhh, so the pose has again shifted without me knowing it. Acting too cool to pretend to like something for fear of looking too pretentious. I guess anyone who claims not to be a poser really is one - because only a poser cares if he comes off as a poser.

― Dave225, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Duh. Listening to music is all about posing -- that's the whole point of cultural items "democratized" into billions of pieces. They're componants of the process of individual self-definition.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If this fictional world was reality, some of you would have a bullet through your brain right now. Some people just can't, can't, CAN'T follow directions.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Not genre, but band: Skinny Puppy.
Making no comments on the band itself or its bizarre hardcore fans but I never met so many people in high schools who wish to impress by loving them.

― Mr Noodles, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Spock, what do you take to be the difference between experimental and avant-garde? I'm honestly curious, because they've always just been kind of blurred together in my mind...

― Clarke B., Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, the line is blurry, so that's why I thought of it. Well, to me, experimental is about different sorts of musical stylings, not necessarily for the sake of being weird, but to create something new and interesting. Often, avant garde music does the same thing and for the same reason. So far they are the same thing. With music that is new and different, it often sounds weird, out of tune, out of time, disjointed and intentionally freaky, so it is natural that the lyrics should be just as peculiar. Here again, avant garde conforms to the same definition. Therefore, up to this point, I call it all avant garde. Captain Beefheart, certain Sonic Youth albums, Residents = Avant Garde. Pretentious songs about mysterious subjects with unclear meanings, like a conman trying to pull the rug out from under you or a liar pulling the wool over your eyes.

But, there is also experimental music that is not overtly bizarre and flagrantly weird, mysterious and secretive. Some music just combines odd instruments, rhythms and creates atypical song structures. Porn Orchard is experimental in a way, combining jazz drumming with punkish music, classic-rockish solos that are oddly atonal rather than bluesy, each song a continual free-flowing verse without any choruses. Still, they were basically a hard rock sort of outfit. Who else is a good example of experimental? Not Kraftwerk. Sure, they are different, but the experiment has long been over. They're "art rock" or avant garde. Buckethead is experimental. Too many bands are labelled "experimental" when really all they are doing is copying earlier artists who were once "experimental". Thus, not experimental. Final piece of determining advice: if it makes you feel really uncomfortable at first or if it sounds intentionally evil, creepy or limit-pushing (freaky noise), it's probably avant garde. I guess. Boredoms are experimental for the most part. They keep changing into cooler things.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Glitch. Poseurz listen to glitch, or better still, have a glitch label, which sells micro-amounts ov their releases, and which they run from a titanium apple powerbook. Not that I'm jealous, or anything, like.

― Norman Phay, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Has glitch decided it wants to be a genre, too? Never heard of it. Way to go, glitch.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Will Oldham and Smog.
Err... I LIKE Will Oldham and Smog.. and then I met people from New York who liked them..
Le Tigre. A few years ago, Stereolab & Tortoise.
I am suddenly realizing I am no longer cool enough to know any poseurs, I may have encountered some people last year who were veering off into that category 'cause I knew someone who made tunes/artworks on a powerbook & owned many obscure records. Oh, wait, I'm a poseur. Someone borrowed my X-Ray Spex album & never gave it back.

― daria gray, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Spock, I think I'm more confused than ever! I followed your first paragraph--avant-garde does seem to me to connote music that is more willfully difficult to listen to or obtuse. Yep, Sonic Youth, lots of present-day free jazz, Henry Cow, etc. etc. I strongly associate "avant-garde" with "New York" for some reason... I disagree, however, that Kraftwerk were not experimental--they seem to me to be almost paradigmatically experimental. They were not (after their first couple of albums) willfully obtuse or difficult--their melodies are simple and soothing, and their grooves are tight and danceable. However, they experimented a lot with the means of production--the sounds they used, the way they made those sounds, the rhythms they used, etc. I think "avant-garde" is a more connotative term, and "experimental" is more of a descriptive term, and it really is difficult to tease out their meanings. Best probably to look at how they're used in talking about music...

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, I don't know, either. It's how I distinguish them. See, I see avant garde as more of an artistic statement, rather than an exploration of music, in which the experimental side is often nothing more than a means to showcase the statement, which is often nothing more than a discomforting feeling. Similar to abstract art that asks, "is this unpleasant for you?" or "is this art?", avant garde music often strikes me as nothing more than a challenge of your listening sensibilities, while experimental music seems to be more about fleshing out new ideas in music for the sake of listening enjoyment. The 2 overlap a lot, so I'd like to know how record stores make the distinction.

― Nude Spock, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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