Liking Music Intellectually But Not Instinctively

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I was listening to a High Rise/Keiji Haino track today, and I really couldn't work out whether I actually thought it was any good. At first, when it came on, I recoiled in disgust- it sounded like rock wankery to me. But when I started to think about it, and the reasons why I didn't like it, it started to sound amazing. Based on a primitive rock'n'roll riff, the solos became almost accidental and completely untechnical sounding, bizzarely transfixing.

This has happened before, though, and I really only can stand to hear certain tracks when I purposely shift into 'intellectualise' mode, otherwise it remains horrible and grating on my ears. It's not at all a case of good idea but bad actuality, it's almost like they become two different songs.

Um, so I guess the question is 'Why God, Why?'. Or maybe, does this happen to you, and who/how/why/where/when/what/etc?

― emil.y, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ah yes, I see, at first this question just looked stupid, but now I think about it, um, oh, no, that doesn't work...

― emil.y, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've never had this situation persist for any length of time. More often I'll be listening to something and not really responding, and then -- in the process of intellectualizing it -- I suddenly realize what it is that's meant to be so great about it. Once I've "turned on" to whatever quality that is, I tend not to need the intellectualization to find the enjoyment again . . . although there are certain artists I enjoy specifically because I enjoy the intellectualization that allows me to enjoy them, if that makes any sense. E.g., at some point I realized that the Ladybug Transistor's Albemarne Sound was hugely enjoyable if I imagined it as a musical, and now, at times, I put it on specifically to go through that exercise.

― Nitsuh, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It means you want to be something you're not and, in these times, you prefer intellectualization of the experience to the actual experience. Poser. Just kidding. Seriously, though, you've got problems.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You might wanna check out Kid 606.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

... Kidding! All that was kidding.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I never really understand questions like this - I don't think you can separate the stimulus from response, and I think beyond the absolutely physical all our responses are intellectual ones. Of course I try to like things sometimes - listen to them in certain ways or contexts to see if I get more out of them - and I'd be very suspicious of anyone who didn't. The 'posing' thing Spock's talking about seems to be more 'socialising' your response rather than 'intellectualising' it.

― Tom, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't really understand it myself, but I'm endlessly fascinated by why people like certain things without ever being able to understand why I like things, not truly. Of course, I can pontificate on different aspects of the track or whatever, but it doesn't seem satisfactory.

It is a case of just listening to it in another way, I guess, but it somehow seemed a bit more than that, almost involuntarily hearing the two different things at once (possibly relating to my 'irritating songs you love' thread of a while back?? Probably not, dunno). Is it that one is contextualised and one is the body of work in isolation, or is it that one is dissected and the other is the completed form?

Will I be hit if I confess I already do like Kid606? As for the poser thing, ah, I definitely would be hit if I started spouting off like this in real life, so I tend to keep schtum. I don't think uber- indie kids appreciate Japanoise gibberish (says girl listening to Felt). Er.

― emil.y, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Really, I was kidding. If I wasn't guilty of the same thing there would be absolutely no justification for some of the grating noise I've "entertained" my ears with in past years. Some music is so frigging bombastic that anyone and everyone are repelled on first listen, and are often remorseful about spending their hard-earned teenage cash on something so utterly unenjoyable. Still, out of curiosity, the person finds himself repeatedly going back to the source of his discontent until one day he's found that he's used to it or he "gets it". Sometimes drugs are used to achieve this level of acceptance. Really bad, grating music can make your spine tingle and your skin crawl and sometimes that's interesting. I really have outgrown most of this stuff, though. It makes me feel fucked in the head, mostly.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oddly, I'm listening to the Kid right now...

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What do his albums sound like? Describe it, please, if you can. I'm figuring there must be some reason he was opening for the buttholes this past tour.

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Loops, tones, glitch, static. But also melancholy, processed alien despair, blissout/shoegaze rapture.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The loops, tones, glitch and static sound promising. But I'm not so sure whether I want to hear the melancholy, processed alien despair or blissout/shoegaze rapture.

― Snotty Moore, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That does sound really cool. I wonder, is there anywhere on the net I could find some mp3s? The official website doesn't have any (that I've been able to find).

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Your call, Snotty. But the one are the elements and the other how I call their results. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

>>I think beyond the absolutely physical all our responses are intellectual ones.

What an absolutely limited vision of the human potential and experience.

― aeon, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

1. "I think beyond the absolutely physical all our responses are intellectual ones."

2. "What an absolutely limited vision of the human potential and experience."

I think it's scientifically verifiable, actually. You have five physical senses, and everything beyond that is mental processing. :)

― Nitsuh, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Limited how. I'm including 'emotional' and 'spiritual' responses in the 'intellectual' category, obviously.

― Tom, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Then Tom, this pedant thinks you need to find a different word for what you mean. Intellect, the dictionary tells me, is "the capacity for understanding, thinking and reasoning as distinct from feeling or wishing."

― Tim, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well pedanted. OK then, I find it impossible to separate my intellectual and emotional responses to a piece of music, because I'm thinking all the time and feeling all the time.

― Tom, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Nude Spock, there are two mp3s from Kid 606 here.
My first response to music is always intuitive. The intellect (not in Tom's sense obviously) comes later. The intellect can embellish music I like but it cannot make me like music I do not like by intuition. Sounds like a tautology, maybe it is. I think it is similar to the music/lyrics issue. First comes the music, the sound, the melody or whatever. If I like it then I try to grip the lyrics. In most times anyways.

― alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm feelin' both Nitsuh and Tom's responses here. Liking music intellectually but not instinctively is something I've been accused of quite a bit (from my non-net acquaintances, largely) and I've always thought it was an almost impossible distinction to make - the real question is probably the level to which the listener's intellectual absorption of the music is subliminated or fully conscious.

I think there can be gaps, where I think that intellectually I should like/dislike a song and yet instinctively I don't, but generally this seems to be because I have yet to realise what exactly the "intellectual" barrier to my expected reaction is. It's there, even if it takes a while to articulate it.

― Tim, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

tim hopkins' dictionary is stupid: you can't do what it says "intellect" does

― mark s, Wednesday, 28 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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