tom thinks i'm a mentalist for saying that scritti politti's
cupid and psyche '85 sounds dated. mssr. k-rad had this to say about thee german group propaganda:
But, that which once sounded so flashy & expensive has now passed beyond datedness, & just sounds like a particular sort ov "sound", if you know what I mean. which is more what i "meant" (in typical jess fashion my oh so brilliant ideas were tripped up by my seeming inability to...speak...good...with words.) is there
any sound which can resist this process (NEW and NOW/OLD and TIRED/OLD and NOW for a little reducto)? i think it can be argued that even plenty of "out" sounding music (free jass anyone?) has come to be worn like old skin even by the young turks, the signifyin' thang becomes more purposefully resonant for them than actually
being new, when being old and cliche
provides the meaning (in the case of a new band - ladytron, chiXoR on speed, stereo-fucking-lab anyone?) or provides a
new meaning distinct from the original (in the case of bands like scritti or propaganda or any band who tapped into the NEW and the NOW at their appointed time...Radiohead vs. The Strokes, to be blunt and iffy about two bands no one might give a flying fuck about 20 yrs. from now.) since we have established by science that it's impossible to listen to music seperate from it's history (or hype for the new ones), does this sort of cultural signifying (to use yet another underripe jess-sub-sophmore-sociology phrase) hurt or help a music?
― jess, Thursday, 29 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
When something is reduced to a particular "sound" full of cultural
significances and whatnot, it seems very prone to abuse simply because
of its easy access to our reactions/recognition of culture. It can hurt
music by creating a gimmicky bandwagon quality that most people have
qualms with (superficial vinyl-scratching used in nu-metal to signify
street/hiphop cred). But couldn't you also argue that all sample-based
forms of music have found new meanings in the old/cliched? This sort of
reconfiguring and recontextualizing to enhance/expand meaning seems
like a very good thing.... assuming that there actually is an
enhancement or expansion going on beyond the initial OLDness.
― Honda, Thursday, 29 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
A lot of country, blues and particularly gospel music from pre-WW2
consisted of parodies, pastiche, in-jokes, blatant intentional sell-
outs etc. Over the years though the 'intention' has evaporated and
people look upon this music reverently as the 'authentic, real
stuff'. This isn't a put-down of the music, the listeners or even the
postmodernism, it's all good. For everyone who plays spot-the-
reference there's others who don't catch any of the signifiers and
form an opinion on it anyway, and why shouldn't they? I know people
who are into Stereolab and never heard of Esquivel or Neu, and as any
given piece gets older the 'true picture' of its creation dissipates
into myth, misconception, projection etc. (Assuming of course that
the stuff isn't forgotten entirely).
― dave q, Friday, 30 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
I thought you were a mentalist for calling Cupid 'dated' and implying
that Skank Bloc wasn't. They both have a weird unfamiliarity about
them because nobody much is employing those kind of production tics
or song-structures now (though the early singles are being rapidly
rediscovered and imitated underground, and the wave of 80s fashion
will hit the mid-80s pretty quickly). But they're both very much of a
time - I think C&P85 is a better record by far than the earlier stuff
(I think it's one of the best records ever, actually) but that's just
me.
― Tom, Friday, 30 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
tom yr getting into a bad habit of answering my threads merely to
defend your own position while not answering the questions at hand.
is this a dig at my essential stupidity? ;)
― jess, Friday, 30 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Often no - it's cause I want to write about this stuff on FT or NYLPM
and not on ILM.
― Tom, Friday, 30 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)