How Important Was Grunge As A Musical Movement?

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Did it make a lasting impression which significantly changed the face of music or was it just a passing phase with no notable effect?

MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:42 (fourteen years ago) link

judging by the Comets on Fire/Killer's Kiss/Gris Gris show I saw on Friday night, grunge's effects are still being felt (ie, crushingly loud sludgy guitar riffs + classic rock soloing with shouted vocals is still cool)

Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 23 August 2004 15:47 (fourteen years ago) link

I will venture to say that it helped to popularize some aspects of the punk aesthetic, at least for a short period of time.

n.a. (Nick A.), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:48 (fourteen years ago) link

I would also venture to say that this, in turn, helped contribute to the boom in the number of "indie" labels and artists (i.e., those that proclaim themselves to be "indie") in the past 10 years or so.

n.a. (Nick A.), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:49 (fourteen years ago) link

It continues to inform much of today's rock music. Most of today's rock music is irrelevant shit, though.

As an interesting footnote, did you know that Dizzee Rascal cites "In Utero" as one of his favourite albums? Take from that what you will.

Wooden (Wooden), Monday, 23 August 2004 15:50 (fourteen years ago) link

it was a passing phase which confirmed the lasting popularity of heavy riffs, disenfranchised lyrics/attitude, and sceamed vocals in rock music. all of which were developed and almost perfected in earlier decades. in the future grunge could "come back" in retro fashion, or be part of a new movement with identical features. given the fact that the u.s. is going to hell there is certainly a basis for another wave of popularity fo this music.

pheNAM (pheNAM), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:02 (fourteen years ago) link

I'd say grunge -- along with other assorted forms of what the kids call "90s alternative" -- forms at least 65% of the basis for current "hard" radio rock. Half of the regular-rock sounds like Stone Temple Pilots (and half of the nu-metal sounds like the guitar players have been listening to Siamese Dream too much).

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link

I mean, the influence doesn't seem to come from true / "real" Northwestern grunge, but the mainstreamier stuff that bled into certainly looms large.

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:32 (fourteen years ago) link

nabisco OTM. One of the most "notable" or nefarious parts of that influence is drawn-out-vowels-during-vocals syndrome. I blame Vedder.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:36 (fourteen years ago) link

there are few things I would rather not ponder than the importance of grunge. It's like discussing the ramifications of being moody.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 23 August 2004 16:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Grunge has had a thoroughly unfortunate affect on today's music climate. But admit it now, it was certainly thorough.

Atnevon (Atnevon), Monday, 23 August 2004 20:35 (fourteen years ago) link

nickelback to thread.

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Monday, 23 August 2004 20:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Grunge proved that you could sell rock & roll music to teenagers. A bold move all around.

scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link

I hate pop-culture nostalgia. You know, reminisce about some movie/tv show/book/rock band and sigh, "It was so much better back then..."
I'm too young to reminisce. But maybe I'm being hypocritical, cuz I'm kinda into grunge.
Thanks to that guy...

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link

>Grunge proved that you could sell rock & roll music to teenagers. A bold move all around. <

Also, that bands could have unkempt hair, and stuff like that.

chuck, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:19 (fourteen years ago) link

I was only a baby when the grunge era started. But you guys were there, right? It wasn't even a little bit exciting to you?

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:21 (fourteen years ago) link

i was there. i was there when mark arm vomited backstage at the crocodile cafe. i was there when tad doyle left a cake out in the rain.

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:22 (fourteen years ago) link

it was all downhill after green river broke up....then the scene got populated by "sellouts".

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:24 (fourteen years ago) link

But didja have fun?

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:24 (fourteen years ago) link

(haha tad doyle would have NEVER left a cake out in the rain.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:24 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah he'd eat that shit before it hit the ground.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:25 (fourteen years ago) link

Tad could've been the president of the United States.

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:25 (fourteen years ago) link

RIP BIG POPPA

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:25 (fourteen years ago) link

What, he's dead?

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:27 (fourteen years ago) link

someone make a Tad and Biggie mash up stat!

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh, I see!
Yeah. Big guys stick together.

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:30 (fourteen years ago) link

>it was all downhill after green river broke up....then the scene got populated by "sellouts".<

Wait, you were actually still paying attention after *Dry as a Bone* and that Dead Boys cover? Impressive. (I did somehow manage to make it to some shitty Ann Arbor Mudhoney show in '89, but is was ALL over by then.) (Give or take an occasional Candlebox or Collective Soul hit, at least.)

chuck, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:35 (fourteen years ago) link

So what's my new generation about?

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:36 (fourteen years ago) link

Yellowcard, mostly.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:50 (fourteen years ago) link

btw chuck i was just kidding but you may be right nonetheless.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:50 (fourteen years ago) link

But Yellowcard suck!

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 21:55 (fourteen years ago) link

no grunge = no switchfoot = fewer people turning to jesus in 2004.

so grunge was extremely important.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 23 August 2004 21:56 (fourteen years ago) link

The new Guitar World magazine has a cover story on former Creed guitarist Mark Tremonti's new band Alter Bridge and examples of his playing....the headline on the cover is THE FULL TREMONTI! which is, like, probably the best headline ever.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:00 (fourteen years ago) link

oops Altar Bridge - i just lost two "God Points"

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:01 (fourteen years ago) link

Well, you're right about the Jesus thing.

Nowell, Monday, 23 August 2004 22:03 (fourteen years ago) link

At the time, the only grunge bands that I cared for at all were punk bands who were peripheral to "grunge proper"--I'm thinking of the Dwarves and Olivelawn, specifically. They had better songwriting and were more fun all around than the "grunge proper" bands.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:22 (fourteen years ago) link

Grunge inspired former WWF opener and current dead person Rad Radford to thread!

http://www.boardhell.de/schrott/115.jpg

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:28 (fourteen years ago) link

Nowell our generation is about Death Cab For Cutie (which may or may not be worse than Yellowcard.)

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 23 August 2004 22:33 (fourteen years ago) link

x-post
Don't forget Johnny Grunge, who in turn inspired this ECW referencing Weezer lyric:
"Watching Grunge leg drop New Jack through a press table"

AaronHz (AaronHz), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:34 (fourteen years ago) link

Indeed. And New Jack is, to my knowledge, the only professional wrestler to have done vocals on a Bootsy Collins track.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:39 (fourteen years ago) link

You mean "Do the Mario!" wasn't a Bootsy track???

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 23 August 2004 22:41 (fourteen years ago) link

I liked Mother Love Bone. (Not sure if that's actualy three words, but I'm being influenced by Voice copy editor.) And Nirvana. Velvet Revolver seems too smooth, like its name! (I know they don't claim to be grunge, but yknow the Weiland)

Don, Monday, 23 August 2004 22:50 (fourteen years ago) link

prime-era Raven was a totally grunge wrestler....the self-pity, lazy attitude, long cutoff jeans and flannels...

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:53 (fourteen years ago) link

anyone remember what his ECW entrance music was?

AaronHz (AaronHz), Monday, 23 August 2004 22:58 (fourteen years ago) link

there was a cool scene of pop music that wasn't grunge but was clearly informed by grunge, reacting to grunge, caused by grunge, or soemthing like that, that i really liked. things like the juliana hatfield album with "universal heartbeat" and "dumb fun" (on which juliana did a note-perfect parody of a cobain guitar solo), and the muffs' debut album (grunge-meets-shangri-la's, featuring a note-perfect cobain gtr parody of its own), and scarce's "all sideways," and there was that one pretty good madder rose album, and all sorts of stuff like that.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 23 August 2004 23:06 (fourteen years ago) link

Grunge's greatest contribution to culture will prove to be the subsequent demonisation of the plaid shirt.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 23 August 2004 23:09 (fourteen years ago) link

I wonder if Corrosion of Conformity was grunge? I liked them. Dunno if there was Southern Grunge, but Verbena was like the guy singer started trying to sound like Cobain, but the girl kept it more like X. Then she left, and he still did a Kurtish thing, even though Altoonative was dead, but it kinda worked anyway! Artistically, if not $(Had often been 'kinda," even with her, so no prob except I miss her).

Don, Monday, 23 August 2004 23:16 (fourteen years ago) link

Corrosion of Conformity was not grunge.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 23 August 2004 23:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Thanks for clearing that up. The Anti-Seen? Or was grunge just another Yankee thing!!!

Don, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 00:54 (fourteen years ago) link

Dino Jr was total grunge - can't understand you guys are debating this.

baaderonixx, Thursday, 16 April 2009 09:15 (ten years ago) link

I wouldn't put SY in that category but back then they were def. championning the scene (cf. 91: the Year than Punk Broke) and appropriating the sound and the style ('Dirty' era)

baaderonixx, Thursday, 16 April 2009 09:16 (ten years ago) link

my early teens paralleled pipecocks, only from a crappy northern irish perspective. spent 11-16 in bands constantly, hanging round practice rooms smoking doobs and hitting strong white cider. Im glad i got it out of the way early on so by the time i was 18 i could smell a ripoff coming. thinking back on it thats where my love of heavy, messy music comes from and my hatred for bandwagon jumping.

straightola, Thursday, 16 April 2009 09:27 (ten years ago) link

it was Melody Maker not NME championing grunge back in 89

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 10:46 (ten years ago) link

Absolutely. NME had nothing to do with grunge.

Sacco, Vanzetti, Passantino... (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 April 2009 10:51 (ten years ago) link

Yeah, and IIRC, ET was using the grunge word to describe a few different things before it got firmly affixed to Seattle stuff. Should be mentioned though that the first guy that was really championing all the early Sub Pop stuff before it even got a mention in the music weeklies was John Peel.

The Unbearable Skegness of Being (NickB), Thursday, 16 April 2009 10:52 (ten years ago) link

No surprises there though.

The Unbearable Skegness of Being (NickB), Thursday, 16 April 2009 10:53 (ten years ago) link

Don't really know what NME was championing in 1989

Sacco, Vanzetti, Passantino... (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 April 2009 10:53 (ten years ago) link

Madchester maybe?

Sacco, Vanzetti, Passantino... (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 April 2009 10:54 (ten years ago) link

Bradford and the Sundays?

I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE UP TO (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 16 April 2009 10:55 (ten years ago) link

Anyway grunge was too rocky for the NME in 1989

Sacco, Vanzetti, Passantino... (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 April 2009 10:56 (ten years ago) link

NME was always behind Melody Maker. Infact NME was usually looking for the new smiths

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 11:13 (ten years ago) link

Okay yeah, it was MM. NME was all Madchester with some Napalm Death thrown in, IIRC. I'm trying to find and online version of that MM middle-of-the-magazine spread they did on Seattle- that was the Everett True thing I'm thinking of, probably.

bendy, Thursday, 16 April 2009 11:19 (ten years ago) link

Grunge Bands You've Written Off/Pointedly Ignored because of their name:

Cat Butt
The Thrown-Ups

The Unbearable Skegness of Being (NickB), Thursday, 16 April 2009 11:41 (ten years ago) link

Nice to see that article.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 12:27 (ten years ago) link

Thanks NickB- that's it.

bendy, Thursday, 16 April 2009 12:30 (ten years ago) link

RAGING PRIMAL GRUNGINESS

The Unbearable Skegness of Being (NickB), Thursday, 16 April 2009 12:33 (ten years ago) link

any more articles from 88-94 around online?

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 14:50 (ten years ago) link

SEATTLE'S NEW GENERATION OF THRASH METAL MERCHANTS

bendy, Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:08 (ten years ago) link

The NME mostly ignored grunge back in 1989. And they're still looking for the next Smiths.
http://archivedmusicpress.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/stone-roses-cover-18th-nov-1989.jpg?w=410&h=585

This is a great comp if you willing to pay an arm and a leg for it.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/SubPop200.jpg

leavethecapital, Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:11 (ten years ago) link

That Charles Burns really ripped off the Fever Ray album art.

The Unbearable Skegness of Being (NickB), Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:12 (ten years ago) link

NME still looking
This weeks NME

http://i41.tinypic.com/6r7tw5.jpg

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:14 (ten years ago) link

LOL, who is the NME's target audience? More suited to the MOJO crowd methinks.

leavethecapital, Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:28 (ten years ago) link

Mojo had a john lennon cover this month

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:29 (ten years ago) link

Mojo did have a while back
http://cover.mojo4music.com/uploads/Images/399x567/633504167189422999.Jpeg

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:33 (ten years ago) link

(from that Melody Maker scan, about Beat Happening)

"Cramps meets Marine Girls meets Jonathan Richman meets Screaming Trees and are run over by a passing tractor."

I never tire of this b.s. band-chemisty-set hyperbole from the british music press. As far as I know, they invented it.

city worker, Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:40 (ten years ago) link

man that MM spread is great. love the picture of Tad.

Pre-Beatles Yoko Ono (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:43 (ten years ago) link

Melody Maker used to be so great. It's a real shame what it eventually turned into.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 15:45 (ten years ago) link

Okay, that Melody Maker article from 1989 is INCREDIBLE.

Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 16 April 2009 17:15 (ten years ago) link

i want that MM issue

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 17:21 (ten years ago) link

I'm going to dig out my old Tad lp.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 16 April 2009 19:37 (ten years ago) link

not directed at you or anything, btw. just strikes me funny to see grunge records as collectibles.

slugbaiting (rockapads), Friday, 17 April 2009 01:05 (ten years ago) link

man that MM spread is great. love the picture of Tad.

otm

pale spector (electricsound), Friday, 17 April 2009 01:11 (ten years ago) link

rockapads> even back then that stuff was out my price range. Over on another board I post on DFFD(the board that used to be the Southern Lord Forum), a guy posted his entire Soundgarden collection. Must be worth a fortune and he bought it all when it came out.

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 17 April 2009 12:29 (ten years ago) link

I have always viewed the "grunge" tag as a construct of a media that did not understand where this music was really coming from. When Nirvana, Mudhoney, Melvins, Dino Jr etc. were releasing their first records, my friends and I regarded it as a continuation of punk rock. We live in Saskatchewan for fuck sakes. The idea of this shit being some specially named sub-genre was laughable.Especially coming from writers that seem like they should know better.
What it became though was no joke. The horrible garbage shat out by Pearl Jam, STP, Candlebox, etc. shortly after the mainstream explosion of Nirvana has left a streak of shit through rock n' roll until now. All of these awful bands like Nickleback, Puddle of Mudddd, Staind can be blamed on the myth of "grunge" and Nirvana. It's Cobain's fault but he can't be held resposible if that makes any sense.
Too bad his championing of Flipper and the Wipers didn't stick better with the mainstream instead of those who think aping the sounds of Nirvana, vacantly too(ie:Nicleback et al as stated above) makes for compelling rock n roll.
To this day I find listening to Nirvana a bit painful due to the constant retread of their sound in modern "rock". And I loved their records when they came out.
This point of view had no effect on my love for Mudhoney though for what it's worth.
(...ps Sugar Shack were great.)

chad, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:09 (ten years ago) link

i think you have to credit Nirvana for the rise in popularity of punk, indie, and alternative as well as the wackness of "modern rock". to me, the good far outweighs the bad, especially since it is very easy for me to never hear Creed, Nickelback, etc. also, i'm not sure anyone out there is aping the sound of Nirvana, at least not that i've ever heard. even back in the day, it was always knock offs of Pearl Jam that were huge, not Nirvana. i can't even think of one post-Nirvana band that sounds even remotely like them.

also, i think Mudhoney just aged a little better than a lot of this other stuff because they always remained raw. this is not a quality that mainstream rock ever ripped off, it keeps their sound a little more fresh because of it.

pipecock, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:16 (ten years ago) link

there are some pretty bad rock radio bands these days that are more on the Nirvana than PJ in terms of influences -- Seether and Puddle of Mudd in particular have been really ubiquitous on the radio the last couple years.

some dude, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:19 (ten years ago) link

i've at least heard Puddle of Mudd once, maybe one song? i can't see the Nirvana comparison at all!

pipecock, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:20 (ten years ago) link

'She Hates Me' was so Nirvana-for-tweens

Hard House SugBanton (blueski), Friday, 17 April 2009 16:23 (ten years ago) link

That is true pipecock they do deserve credit for that, too. As I said I was a big fan at the time. I did not mean to be hard on them.
As far the aping of their sound; it is almost always a failure anyway (these bands try) but it annoys anyway.
I also agree with you on why Mudhoney still sound good.

chad, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:23 (ten years ago) link

i'm not saying they're super Nirvana-ish, but if you were gonna trace their sound to any of the big grunge bands, it would be Nirvana. it works that way for most big active rock bands of the past decade, really...Shinedown = Soundgarden, Godsmack = Alice In Chains, etc.

xpost

some dude, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:25 (ten years ago) link

i remember arguing about the merits of Godsmack with a coworker at the corporate CD store i worked at when they came out in 1999. i was like "they sound just like AIC but worse, they named themselves after one of their songs for godsakes!!" that guy finally just last year sent me a myspace apologizing for defending them.

pipecock, Friday, 17 April 2009 16:27 (ten years ago) link

Godsmack certainly stole their name from AiC, and they have a few moments of atmospheric gloom which recalls Dirt...Voodoo is prolley one that most readily comes to mind...but if there is any numetal ripoff song which truly captures the spirit of what AiC is all about, it was Incubus' "Drive"...

jagged-electronically mäandernden underbody (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 17 April 2009 16:36 (ten years ago) link

http://www.subpop.com/catalog/discography

pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 18 April 2009 18:48 (ten years ago) link


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