n00b query: What are the hallmarks of a great drummer?

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And why don't I notice 'em?

― Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

hot beats

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

And besides all the usual things that should be a given (like control over their sound and good time & feel etc.), knowing when hold it down and be totally restrained vs. when to be crazy and go off.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, alcoholism.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Hallmark No. 1: the drummer is named Bernard Purdie

― oops (Oops), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

These days, a great drummer is someone with good time who the rest of the band can depend on not to steer them off course. It sounds stupid, but there a lot of drummers out there in famous bands who can't do this.

The real answer is that a "great drummer" is the same thing is a "great musician". So, ask what makes a great musician, and watch the thread die a quick death.

― Dominique (dleone), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i think a good basic sense of rhythm, creative ideas (structure, drum sound, "fills", etc.), and lots of energy are the important building blocks for what dom is talking about.

― peter smith (plsmith), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Lately I've been really into drummers who have a great sound and who create parts for tunes that may not be complex, but are fresh and not what I would have come up with.

Five drummers I've been listening to lately: dude from Mars Volta, dude from Spoon, Dave King, Matt Chamberlain, John & John from Tortoise on It's All Around You and the Savath + Savalas record.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Playing like George Hurley.

― Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.laserbeast.com/photos/atp/tunmer04.jpg

This child is going to become the greatest drummer ever.

― Free the Bee (ex machina), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

(Anyone have the picture of her in Brian C's mask?)

― Free the Bee (ex machina), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

-sweatbands/headband
-no shirt
-dual kickdrums

― Asthmatic Cajun (Asthmatic Cajun), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

The ability to duplicate a metronome is one definition, but depending on the song/band it's not necessary or even desirable. In each beat, there are several tiny subdivisions on which you could play and not be "wrong" or "off the beat," but depending on where in that beat you hit something, you create a different feel. Booker T and the MGs (the drummer's name excapes me at the moment) are a good example where the "2" is often a little late, but it works. My favorite example is Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes' "If You Don't Know Me by Now," where the drums are way, WAY behind the beat. It's beautiful. Listen to Simply Red's (not bad but inferior) version of the same song and you can hear the difference.

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Somebody who can do hats like Stephen Morris for more than 4 minutes straight.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Re: being restrained and going crazy, my favorite drummer is Bill Berry.

― mrjosh (mrjosh), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Berry is a great example of tasteful drumming that also rocked. Never abused the crash, often substituted a rack tom for the expected snare to make the beat less obvious. The first time I ever noticed (at the age of 14 or so) that drumming was something that could enhance a song, as opposed to just giving it something to hang on, was on "The One I Love."

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Sometimes, as drummers get technically better they become worse musicians - it's the tasteful thing, really, some people tend to be so excited about what they can play that they forget what they should be playing, and they're usually drummers and guitarists. I think a drummer needs to be able to 'duplicate a metronome', even if they don't actually use the ability - a lot of metal and punk drumming falls down when they're trying to play thrash/industrial fast but can't keep their sixteenth notes regular.

There's something fantastic about a drummer who uses his kit like a tuned percussion instrument - eg Jim White out of the Dirty Three, who plays as if he's a soloist rather than sticking to a set pattern and has to be my favourite drummer ever - but it's damn hard and has the potential to just be egregious.

― cis (cis), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Great drummer = doesn't see the need for filligree. Flash only when needed.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

a great drummer...
plays what is best for the song....is solid at keeping a steady rhythm throughout an entire song,...is consistently precise in striking the drums,....plays with groove and feel,....will be aggressive when the music calls for it,....will exhibit a light touch when the music calls for it....has taken the time necessary to broaden his or her horizons by learning the basics to the many differing styles of music that fills our world,....possesses originality that will make what he or her plays unique and recognizable....is tasteful....

― bahtology, Monday, 27 September 2004 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Plays nothing but superfast, distastefully busy fills

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 27 September 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

ILM is getting lazy if someone hasn't posted this picture yet:
http://www.synthtopia.com/synth_review/synth_images/808.jpg

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 27 September 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

spencer = crunkist

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 27 September 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i like the dude from helmet. he is like the roy haines of nu-mosh-core. i'm kidding. kinda. nobody is roy haines. well, almost nobody. but i really like meantime and half the reason is that swingin' dude who was probably wearing black shorts, skater sneakers, and a baseball cap behind the kit. i just listened to it today really loud for the first time in a long time. you'll have to forgive me. most people hate helmet.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 27 September 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I prefer "crunkiste"

xposte

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 27 September 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

A great drummer has the ability to (seemingly without effort) cause his cage to levitate over the audience while he plays.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

GREAT DRUMMER!

― Free the Bee (ex machina), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Having more than one arm.

(Sorry Moulty and the guy from Def Leppard)

― Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex in NYC hating Keith Moon shocka!!!

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

does anybody really LOVE charlie watts?

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Charlie Watts is awesome, I think. Check the sick beat on "Can't You Hear Me Knockin'"

My favorite underrated drummer is Ralph Molina from many classic Neil Young albums.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

deoderant

― frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

it's...it's...Roy "HAYNES"! *gasp*

Ok, thank's for letting me get that out of my system. Carry on.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Nick Knox rox

― Jedermann sein eigener Fussball (Dada), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

great drummers vs. drummers... a few things about great drummers:

-they play something at the same speed every time, regardless of the time.
-they understand that sometimes less is more both in what music they play and the size of the goddam kit. they aren't blinded by technical ability. they know when to add and when to deliberately leave out.
-they have FREE ACTION, that ability to deviate from the standard rock and jazz beats. usually requires them to be able to move all four limbs independently.
-they can play loud and soft. most drummers cannot play soft. and some cannot play loud.
-they are nice dudes. (of course, no one's perfect and many of the greatest anythings are also huge assholes. and who wants to work with an asshole? heh, well, i know a few people, ahem, but that's a different subject.)
m.

― msp (msp), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

they play something at the same speed every time, regardless of the time

What does this mean, exactly? Tempo?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

For me, at least, I have a fondness for folks who take an instrument and ignore what it's "supposed to do". Play melody on the bass. Make the drums pure punctuation. Turn the guitar into a purcussion instrument.

The Keith Moon blurbette above made me think about why I love the Who. The Ox was often playing melody and keeping rhythm at the same time while Keith was treating his drums like the percussion section of an orchestra (with a more cracked-out flair). I still can't get over his hi-hat substitute of waving his hand back and forth whacking 2 crash symbols. But seriously, stick Keith in any other band and he's one of the worst drummers ever. Stick him in the Who, and he's brilliant (at least at times).

I hate to say it, but I think when it comes down to it, it's all relative. Or in other words, how does it fit in with the rest of the band's sound?

Oh yes, and my favorite drummer joke:
Drummers are people who like to hang around musicians.

― Mike Salmo (salmo), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

oops, sorry, jordan, my bad with the typo. i type too fast for my brain sometimes.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

they play something at the same speed every time, regardless of the time
What does this mean, exactly? Tempo?

oops, i suppose that was very confusing... yeah, a good drummer can reproduce a tempo over and over. this is a very hard thing for many people to do especially so when you move away from 4/4 and the basic timings. that is what i was talking about with respect to "regardless of the time"... i should have added "signature" to the end of that sentence.

again tho, not being good with tempo is sort of low on my list. it's nice sometimes tho considering that the rhythm section is going to be what everyone else is going to try to ride on.
m.

― msp (msp), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

But seriously, stick Keith in any other band and he's one of the worst drummers ever. Stick him in the Who, and he's brilliant (at least at times).

So true. It took me a long time to realize that weird drum parts on records often work because another instrument is provided the steady part or filling in the gaps, you can't just toss it into anything. And really, everything is (or can be) a percussion instrument.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Msp, I agree, it is really hard to pull up 144 bpm (for ex.) on stage, since how a tempo feels is so relative to how you're feeling that night, what song you just played, etc. I have read about big-time touring drummers keeping a metronome with preset song tempos around just to count off the tunes at the right place, which would work if that sort of thing is important to you.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, Booker T & the MGs drummer was Al Jackson, Jr., and he was a great drummer.

― Nemo (JND), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Amen. The seemingly simple beat on Green Onions is actually near impossible to play right.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

That's just what I was going to list as a hallmark: to the average listener, their drumming doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to recreate, but sit the average drummer in front of the kit and they'd have a bitch of a time trying to get it right.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Sort of following on from the last two posts AND trying to answer the 'is Charlie Watts great' question - have a listen to the drumming on 'Honky Tonk Women'. Absolutely fantastic! It has that just-behind-the-beat drag all through and just listen to the way that he leaves hi-hat strokes out in the verses to make it swing.

Also great is his drumming throughout 'Exile'.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

five years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICDuYKaMGQ8

― squarefair (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 November 2009 17:31 (sixteen years ago)

Yukihiro Takahashi age 6 but a girl, cool!

― MaresNest, Tuesday, 10 November 2009 17:52 (sixteen years ago)

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