TS: Byrds Vs. Beau Brummels

i only got BB's triangle last week (with alex in tow), and i think it's pretty great, but i still think the byrds albums i have are better.

is it really better someone to have done something first vs doing something better?

and damn, Gene Clark's "No Other" is a damn fine record.

gygax OTM

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Marty Balin of the Jefferson Airplane once said the Beau Brummels were a huge influence on the San Fran sound and I hear it, too. I hear Elliott's guitar work and Valnetino's voice in Jefferson Airplane Takes Off, Surrealistic Pillow, most early Dead, Moby Grape, Skip Spence, Kak and Kaliedescope.

The Byrds are just awesome, and their influence is overwhelming. However, I do not unconditionally love them anymore. I am not so hot chunks of 5D, Turn, Turn, Turn, and Sweetshearts of the Rodeo. BUT, BUT, BUT, there is no denying a band that created the song "Why?" (single version) and the entire Notorious Byrd Brothers LP -- perfect pop music.

Finally, I have to say that I will take the Everly Brothers' Roots LP over both Sweethearts of the Rodeo and Bradley's Barn. Talk about one of your overlooked 60s artists!

Roots is so classic and doesn't get half the respect it deserves. Perfect, sublime, country flavored pop in typically great Everly Brothers harmony.

And yeah, "Roots" and the criminally unavailable "Two Yanks in England" are both overlooked masterpieces by the Everly Brothers.

I love "Mind Gardens".

I love the Beau Brummels, and I agree, dangerously underrated.

yeah, np: best of the beau brummels (rhino lp). great stuff!

I like the Beau Brummels a lot, but there's no question in my mind (gardens) that the Byrds were IT.

I love Shakey's assertion that since he likes two Brummels songs, that's way more good songs than the Byrds ever wrote. Whatta nut.

uh those are just my two favorites. All of Bradley's Barn is pretty great, Laugh Laugh is great, etc.

I'm still not entirely sold on the Byrds although over the last few months I've been getting into Gene Clark's solo stuff so maybe that will be my way in.

Clark wrote so many amazing songs on those early Byrds records. Do you have Preflyte? And songs like She Don't Care About Time, The World Turns Around Her, She Has A Way, I'll Feel a Whole Lot Better, You Won't Have to Cry, Here Without You, Set You Free This Time, The Day Walk, all totally brilliant, and of course, the most beautiful thing ever, If You're Gone, where Mcguinn's harmony just puts it over the edge.

I have Echoes and No Other. No Other was the first thing I heard from him that I really liked.

Preflyte is the early Byrds demos, primarily Clark songs, much folkier. A few of the songs ended up of the first two Byrds albums.

<i>I'm still not entirely sold on the Byrds although over the last few months I've been getting into Gene Clark's solo stuff so maybe that will be my way in.</i>

FYI: On a radio show in the early '80s, Gene Clark listed "Laugh Laugh" as one of his 10 favorite singles on all time. Clark was definitely influenced by the Brummels' early material. Ron Elliott wrote wonderfully melancholic tunes, while Valentino had a great, deep croon. (Sounds like Gene, right?) Like the Zombies, the Brummels were more moody than peppy. Very cool. Very sophisticated. I wouldn't scoff at anyone digging the Brummels over the Byrds. After soaking up the Rhino box, the Brummels are, in my opinion, one of America's great bands. In terms of great pop, few made as much great music as the Beau Brummels -- an most of it was demos and outtakes!

Those brackets will be the death of me.

yeah but the Brummels weren't as good as the Left Banke or the Byrds, in my book. Bradley's Barn is a fine record but hardly the first or best country-rock even if was recorded out in Mt. Juliet. There was always country-rock in the wake of the Byrds--first Gene Clark solo, Dillard and Clark, the Gosdin Bros. with Clarence White on some great '67 Bakersfield Int'l singles. For that matter, Buck Owens, the other great influence on country-rock besides the Byrds, wouldn't we say? Or not? (I love stuff like the Beaus, though, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't rate them over the Byrds, or Love for that matter...)

I love Buck, I'd rate him over the Byrds (I definitely own way more of his stuff than anybody else mentioned on this thread so far)

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I don't think Bradley's Barn is country-rock the way the Byrds and Clarence White and the Gosdins are country-rock. Although the album does utilize Nashville musicians (but zero pedal steel), it's more of a merger of country-inspired folk-pop and Tin Pan Alley/Broadway (that's the key). Elliott was more like a psychedelic Jerome Kern in the vein of Brian Wilson, Van Dyke Parks and Randy Newman. In this sense Bradley Barn, along with Triangle (which I think is better), have more in common with Pet Sounds, 12 Songs and Song Cycle than Sweetheart of the Rodeo or Fantastic Expedition of...

I only mention this because I often see the Brummels later LPs compared to late-60s Byrds, Gosdins, and so on. And I just think the Brummels can be easily lumped into that scene.

can=can't

Of course, compounding this whole thing is Sal Valentino who was just flat-out unique in the '60s. A West Coast Italian-American, he's like a mutant fusion of Dino, Dion and Dylan! I think he one of the era's great stylists.

how the hell in this era of instant availability is the Beau Brummels performance on The Flinstones not on YouTube??

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2729772/beau_brummelstones_laugh_laugh/

thanks :D

some really keen animation there

I am borrowing the Magic Hollow 4 disc box set of Beau Brummels material from a programmer friend.
There's about 100 songs on it.
It's probably better than the Byrds box set, but that's as far as I will go with that.

haven't heard too much beau brummels, i probably should hear more. was just listening to disc two of the original byrds box set, though, and it'd be pretty tough to beat.

I've got Triangle and Bradley's Barn and they're both good, but I don't get why the Byrds comparison seems to come up again and again.

Let me explain. The Byrds are my all time favorite band, I just think that the box was sort of poorly put together. It's a glorified greatest hits.
The Magic Hollow set, on the other hand, is full of stuff I've never heard. But I've never had anything BUT a Beau Brummels GH comp. It's got cool demos and alternate versions.
They aren't the most obviously comparable bands, but they were both early "American answer to the Beatles" bands from California, so there is that.
There just wasn't another Beau Brummels thread.

i also have those 2 albums, some good songs but sal valentino's voice weirds me out
xp

trip master, are you talking about the most recent byrds box set (time of the season i think?) or the one that came out in the early 90s? that first one was really what showed me there was more to the byrds than just the hits. i was just a teenager then, but i've got a soft spot for it.
in other byrds-related news, "universal mind decoder"! so rad.

Yeah, I'm talking about the nineties box.
I just think it's kind of sloppy, but I've had all those albums forever.
Really just wanted to talk Brummels! Nevermind my gripes.

well, what brummels stuff should i dig into first?

I really love the poppy early stuff, so disc one of Magic Hollow, I guess.

Fantastic: "When It Comes to Your Love" and "Don't Talk to Strangers." Really Good: "Sad Little Girl." Better than the Byrds? Well, I've only got a best-of and one regular-issue LP, but I can't imagine them even coming close.

They aren't the most obviously comparable bands, but they were both early "American answer to the Beatles" bands from California, so there is that.

I'd also say both were prominent in bringing American folk music elements into the otherwise very English beat sound rather than just emulating The Brits completely like other bands like Knickerbockers did.
But surely that folk element is more prominent in the music of The Byrds than in the music of The Beau Brummels.

Really need to listen to more of them, as it is Not Too Long Ago off Introducing is probably one of my most played songs this year.

In the new Rhino newsletter, they've put in a hint about a forthcoming Rhino Handmade edition of Bradley's Barn.

And here it is:

The long-awaited collection features the original Warner Bros. album remastered by Dan Hersch and Andrew Sandoval, as well as 25 rare and unreleased tracks, and a never-before-released 1968 radio interview with Valentino and Elliott. Highlights include the alternate version of "I Love You Mama"; the 1967 demo for "Just A Little Bit Of Lovin'" recorded in Hollywood; the stereo mix of the demo for "Black Crow"; alternate takes of "I'll Be Your Baby Tonight" and "Lift Me"; an alternate mix of "Love Can Fall A Long Way Down"; an alternate demo of "Another"; the demo for "Confessions"; and a cover of the classic country weeper "Long Black Veil."

The second disc contains several of Valentino's post-Brummels solo recordings including a handful of three more unreleased songs: an alternate version of singles from the era making their debut on CD, as well as "An Added Attraction (Come And See Me)" and the Johnny Cash covers "A Little At A Time" and "Home Of The Blues." BRADLEY'S BARN also features seven outtakes from the album's sessions that were originally compiled by Rhino Handmade on MAGIC HOLLOW, the now sold-out retrospective spanning The Beau Brummels' entire career released in 2005.

Issued in a hardbound booklet with rare photos and lengthy sleeve notes by co-producer Alec Palao that feature commentary from Valentino, Elliott, Waronker, and lyricist Bob Durand, BRADLEY'S BARN ships at the end of July, but you can pre-order it now. The first 500 pre-orders before 11:59pm PST 7/26/11 also receive a 7" featuring "Deep Water" b/w "Deep Water (Alternate Version)," a RhinoHandmade.com exclusive.

man this song. so good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTvhF4pxDEc

some good songs but sal valentino's voice weirds me out

tbh I've only ever heard "Triangle" (band meant nothing in the UK) and his vocals really are a problem for me

yeah, in the earlier stuff such as the post above you and this his style is more subdued, he kinda really indulged the odd aspects of his voice in triangle/bradley's barn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_FarOaN0XE

Sal Valentino is like Lee Hazlewood mixed with Gene Clark. What a voice.

geir et al OTM. beau brummels are so underrated.

over the last few months I've been getting into Gene Clark's solo stuff so maybe that will be my way in

this happened fwiw

beau brummels are great, and in some ways "bradley's barn" is more coherent of an album as the byrds ever released... but c'mon. the brummels never hit the heights of "8 miles high" or "turn turn turn."

I’ve been obsessed w Bradley’s Barn for a solid month now. Just outstanding playing all around. Really kicks a strong set of songs up a notch. Dude has a really interesting voice and he’s really leaning into it’s peculiarities on this record. But I can see how he might not be everyone’s cup of tea.

Not feelin Triangle much at all though

Was Bradley’s Barn recorded at, um, Bradley’s Barn?

it was indeed

Kenney Buttrey and Jerry Reed playing on it too

Okay, I’m there, thanks

yeah sal's voice was a plus on early singles but it became VERY mannered later on and it makes it hard to get into the last couple albums although i do sometimes get over it (i say this every revive it seems)

Now Sounds did a complete recordings box on The Beau Brummels that's now sold out.

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/the-beau-brummels-turn-around-the-complete-recordings-1964-1970-8-disc-remastered-box-set/

Still f with BB

Triangle has been oversold as a "Summer of Love masterpiece", but Bradley's Barn has a bunch of great songs and performances and isn't too "country-rock", if that scares off any potential listeners.

okay, sold, gotta check it all out, going by this:
I don't think Bradley's Barn is country-rock the way the Byrds and Clarence White and the Gosdins are country-rock. Although the album does utilize Nashville musicians (but zero pedal steel), it's more of a merger of country-inspired folk-pop and Tin Pan Alley/Broadway (that's the key). Elliott was more like a psychedelic Jerome Kern in the vein of Brian Wilson, Van Dyke Parks and Randy Newman. In this sense Bradley Barn, along with Triangle (which I think is better), have more in common with Pet Sounds, 12 Songs and Song Cycle than Sweetheart of the Rodeo or Fantastic Expedition of...
I only mention this because I often see the Brummels later LPs compared to late-60s Byrds, Gosdins, and so on. And I just think the Brummels can be easily lumped into that scene.

― QuantumNoise, Friday, February 29, 2008

Also this has got me wanting to hear it all:
Sal Valentino is like Lee Hazlewood mixed with Gene Clark. What a voice.

― nostormo, Saturday, December 28, 2013

Even if, as some of yall say, he got too or more mannered later, goes with the territory, and I wouldn't want Hazlewood to try to be unpretentious, doesn't suit him.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Ron_Elliott_-_The_Candlestickmaker.jpg

treat yourself to that one if you've never listened to it

I find the guy's voice unlistenable tbh.