Third-person Narrative Songs That Don't Suck

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For whatever reason, I really don't like narrative songs about made-up characters. I'm not sure why, it just sounds cheesy to me. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but I can't think of any right now.
It's especially bad if the songwriter sees fit to name the character. Even worse, is songs that aren't particularly narrative, but still have a cast of characters in them. Just strikes me as such a cheap songwriting gimmick. For some reason, first-person narratives don't seem to bother me much.
Any one else have this reaction? What are some exceptions?

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

how do we know the person they're referring to in the song is "made up" and not based on a personal aquaintance?

― Thea (Thea), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

we don't always know.
sometimes it sounds pretty clear one way or the other. i suspect songs that were written about real people probably don't bug me as much.

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

also, can someone delete the duplicate thread, please? thanks.

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

ummm, how about "Jesus Loves Me"

― Thea (Thea), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure why, but I think my favourite use of third person narrative (and it's part of what makes it my favourite album ever) is on Saint Etienne's Tiger Bay - "He's On The Phone", "I Buy American Records", "Like A Motorway", "Pale Movie", "Boy Scouts Of America". I suspect one aspect of these song's greatness is how impressionistic they are: just "she" and "he", almost always a sketchy, allusive/elusive portrait of a man and a woman in an ambiguous relationship to one another.

But it's also because this decision to tell stories is so informed by everything else going on in the music: Sarah Cracknell's sympathetic vocals which never give any hint of judgment of or partiality (never, in short, turn the songs into parables); the deliberate attempt to fashion a "techno-folk" album sonically etc.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:23 (twenty-one years ago)

From the other thread, the answer to your question is "no." Most pop songs are in the first or second person, so it's refreshing to hear good narrative ones in the third person.
The examples I gave you:
"Jenny & The Ess Dog" is by Stephen Malkmus & The Jicks
"The Hurricane" is by Dylan

― martin hilliard, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to mention "The Hurricane" and then saw it on the other thread. That one's by Dylan, since you asked.

― darin (darin), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Jenny and the Ess Dog is possibly the worst song Malkmus has ever written. Lyrically execrable from start to finish.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

"Elennor Rigby" would probably be a contender, too.

― darin (darin), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Shakey Mo Collier, with all due respect, you're fucked for thinking that. You have heard "Heaven Is a Truck," right?

― martin hilliard, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I recommend Slick Rick's "Children's Story". And pretty much the entire catalogs of Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Morrissey, etc.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:31 (twenty-one years ago)

What if it's two people referred to in the third person?
"The Sisters of Mercy" by Leonard Cohen, for example. That is a great song.

You know, you may be right.
"She's a Superfreak" - silly but not bothersome, just over-played.
"Brickhouse" does bother me but not for the stated reason.
"Arthur" - nothing to be said, here
"She's Always a Woman to Me" - Billy Joel - same
"Wonderful Tonight" - Eric Clapton- purest cheese
"She's a Lady" - bleh
"Dynamo Hum" - Frank Zappa - hmm.

"The Other Woman" - Nina Simone is, however, great.

― Thea (Thea), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Heaven is a Truck is a million times better than Jenny and the Ess Dog. Mostly because it isn't a patronizing, smug, self-righteous excercise in heavy-handed "irony". The characters in that song are painted in broad, clumsy strokes making them out to look like morons, so that the audience can pat themselves on the back for never playing hackey-sack or wearing toe-rings. It's almost offensive the way Malkmus positions himself as this erudite narrator, commenting on the amusing foibles of stupider people. And then there's the fact that the story goes nowhere, has no punchline, has no memorable hook or turn-of-phrase. Awful.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

also entire Ray Davies catalog to thread. "Two Sisters", "Situation Vacant", "Most Exclusive Residence For Sale", etc.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Was "Lola" real?

"She's Gone" - Tindersticks is moodily ok

― Thea (Thea), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Belle and Sebastian lyrics to thread (Photo Jenny, Beautiful, Judy and the Dream of Horses, If You're Feeling Sinister, She's Losing It, Hurley's Having Dreams, Lord Anthony...)

(I don't see these as bad, incidentally)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

mr. finney, when it's elusive and impressionistic, i don't mind nearly as much. i haven't heard that album, but a song about "a man" or "a woman" doesn't make me wince like a song about "sailor sam" or whoever.

shakey, good call on "children's story", but dylan and reed guilty as charged i'm afraid....

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

The song has a bittersweet poignance you're neglecting in your rush to condemn Malkmus as a dick. The dog's thoughts are cute. And the girl is a realistic portrait of a 19 college freshman. The punchline might be on the author, who I believe at the time was involved in his own May-December romance with a girl who'd just gotten her MFA while he was a dude in his mid-30s. "Heaven Is a Truck" cannot be construed as positively as "Jenny and the Ess Dog."

m0stly clean, more great third person songs are "Rock and Roll" by The Velvet Underground, "Pablo Picasso" by The Modern Lovers, "Space Oddity" and "Ziggy Stardust" by David Bowie, "The Battle of Evermore" by Led Zeppelin, and "Stevie" by Royal Trux.

― martin hilliard, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"Boris the Spider" is rarely a fave of Who fans, I'm guessing

― Thea (Thea), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, "space oddity"'s great.
"pablo picasso"'s not really a narrative.
"evermore" is great despite the silly lyrics.

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Neither is "Stevie," so scratch that one too.

― martin hilliard, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"Christine" is my least favorite Siouxsie song.

― Thea (Thea), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah, "boris" is great.
but it's about a spider. that's why it ROCKS.

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"The Gnome" by early Pink Floyd. And "Lucifer Sam" is sort of narrative.

― martin hilliard, Tuesday, 26 October 2004 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

speaking of Siouxsie, "Gecko" by the Creatures is good.

Speaking of "gnomes" - didn't Bowie do "Laughing Gnome?", way back? I might have that wrong...

― Thea (Thea), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Speaking of The Who, there's "Happy Jack." And all of Tommy. Or most of it, when they don't sing in first person. And speaking of Pink Floyd, The Wall might count. The "I" is supposedly a fictional character, and there are outright third person songs that get sung about Pink. And then apropos of nothing, there's Run DMC's "Peter Piper."

― martin hilliard, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

The Gift, of course!

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Am I the only person who hates the song "Hurricaine"? It just goes on and fucking on! I can't stand it!

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"Let's Make the Water Turn Black" - Mothers of Invention.

― Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

You might think it sucks, but "Jeremy." And then there's the line "I remember picking on the boy," so maybe that disqualifies it. Don't forget ELP's "Lucky Man" or The Smiths's "This Night Has Opened My Eyes." Even though there's a "My" it's about an abortion.

― steve hise, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Lots of Dylan songs go on and on.

Good call on the Velvets/Lou Reed upthread. Sweet Jane

― jim wentworth (wench), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

ooh! I'd say Nick Cave's "Stagger Lee" is a)the best song on that album, b)the best version of that song/legend, and c)a damn fine third person narrative song.

― Vampire Submarine (VampireSubmarine), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Clearly the best third-person song ever written is "Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner" by Warren Zevon.

― mrjosh (mrjosh), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Shakey already mentioned "Children's Story" so i'm gonna have to go with another Slick Rick song: the amazing "Indian Girl (An Adult Story)". Utter brilliance.

― lemin (lemin), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I seen crabs with spears and Indian drums!

― Archie Holland (VampireSubmarine), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Haven't we all, Archie ... haven't we all.

― lemin (lemin), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Brian Eno--"Baby's on Fire"

― martin hilliard, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

JOhnny Cash -- "Ballad of Ira Hayes"

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

AC/DC "Cold Hearted Man"
Judas Priest "Beyond the Realms of Death"
Don Henley "Johny Can't Read"

― dave q, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 02:46 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, "space oddity"'s great.

but it's not a third person song. it alternates between first person and second person, but there ain't no third person in there.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Even worse, is songs that aren't particularly narrative, but still have a cast of characters in them

this is a rather huge category of songs, isn't it? there are millions and millions of 'em. if not more. but the one fave that instantly jumped to mind was:

robert palmer, "johnny and mary"

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"Hurricane" isn't bad because it goes on and on, it's bad because it rhymes "jail house" with "man into a mouse." What saves it is the chord progression and the chorus.

A way better Dylan 3rd-person narrative (among many) is "Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts," which is like some Kenneth Anger highlight reel of a Sergio Leone film (and has 16 verses, which I keep telling myself I'm going to memorize so I can bore people by playing it at parties).

"The Sisters of Mercy" isn't 3rd-person, it's 1st-person.

This is kind of a silly thread though, right? There's tons of great 3rd-person songs. Start with "Barbara Allen" and work your way forward.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 04:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Fairport Convention, "Matty Groves"

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"Jungleland"
"The E Street Shuffle"
"Judy is a Punk"

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 06:05 (twenty-one years ago)

"Frank's Wild Years", shurely.

― Philip Alderman (Phil A), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 08:58 (twenty-one years ago)

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