― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)
― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)
― Charlie Rose (Charlie Rose), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 10:07 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)
― JimD (JimD), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)
― M Carty (mj_c), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)
― Charlie Rose (Charlie Rose), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)
― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)
― dave q, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)
― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)
Lots of Elvis Costello, too.
― mike a, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)
― Doobie Keebler (Charles McCain), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)
but the narrator of "short people," for example, is completely reliable. he may not accurately represent the feelings of the songwriter, and he may be the result of sarcasm, but within the world of the song, that narrator is consistent and reliable and completely telling his own truth. what isn't reliable about that?
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― frankE (frankE), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)
― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)
ooh, really? It only recently occurred to me that I maybe shouldn't take those lyrics at face value. But what's going on then? Is he just getting the silent treatment?
― JimD (JimD), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)
― Jay Kid (Jay K), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)
― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)
There was actually a thread about this (lyrics discussion toward the end):The Smiths - "Girlfriend In A Coma"
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)
I think "Sail Away" was the Newman song you were looking for....
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― Douglas (Douglas), Thursday, 28 October 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)
― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Thursday, 28 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Thursday, 28 October 2004 01:55 (twenty-one years ago)
― Sasha (sgh), Thursday, 28 October 2004 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― Kim (Kim), Thursday, 28 October 2004 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― cdwill, Thursday, 28 October 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)
Probably any Black Sabbath song counts -- can you rely on a narrator who thinks that sweet leaf "introduced me to my mind"?
― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 28 October 2004 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)
― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 28 October 2004 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)
― cdwill, Thursday, 28 October 2004 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 28 October 2004 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― Sympatico (shmuel), Thursday, 28 October 2004 03:14 (twenty-one years ago)
...'specially when you take into consideration the memory-impairment side effects?
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 28 October 2004 03:19 (twenty-one years ago)
Some say even his internet posts are written in the voice of an unreliable narrator, which begs the question 'Just as there's a 'moronic-ironic' mode of speech which consists of putting invisible quote marks around everything you say just so you never have to commit yourself to meaning any one clear thing, might there be a 'moronic-unreliable narrator' mode which consists in never meaning a thing you say or sing?' And 'Does using an unreliable narrator mean never having to say you're sorry?'
A tentative answer to those question might be, 'Well, those moronic-ironic people, are they finally less or more vulnerable because of all the invisible air quote marks? And the moronic-unreliables, are they finally more protected or more exposed because of the postures they allow their narrators to strike? And I'd say that the increased protection fiction gives you -- saying 'This is a character saying this, one you shouldn't trust' -- is offset and balanced by the increased exposure to risk that mask-wearing brings, because it emboldens you and tempts you to experiment, to find 'other yous', even taboo yous.
In the end, what I find so useful about unreliable narration, especially satire voiced by an unreliable narrator, is that it allows things to be discussed in a fuzzy, fizzy, non-judgemental space. Things are often at their most interesting when you don't know what you think about a subject, take more than one position on it, and dramatize it with more than one voice. 'What if I take the judgement out of this ultra-judgemental form, satire? What's left when I split myself into a lot of little characters and turn all satire's aggression, usually focused strongly by the ego on something outside it, against these new, dramatised micro-fragments of myself, my fantasies, my heroes, my enemies?' The result is a sort of 'fuzzy puppetry'.
But don't trust me, I'm just the narrator.
― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 28 October 2004 03:21 (twenty-one years ago)
― dr. phil (josh langhoff), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)
― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)
― briania (briania), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Thursday, 28 October 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)
― Atnevon (Atnevon), Thursday, 28 October 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 28 October 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)
― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 28 October 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)
― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Friday, 29 October 2004 06:44 (twenty-one years ago)
O Superman
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 17 April 2018 05:54 (eight years ago)
I nominate half of the TMBG catalogue
― frogbs, Wednesday, 18 April 2018 19:28 (eight years ago)
Rilo Kiley - Does He Love You?
― kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 18 April 2018 19:37 (eight years ago)
faith no more - RV
― after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Wednesday, 18 April 2018 19:53 (eight years ago)
Gnarls Barkley - Crazy
― bhad bhabie...you gon' hurt your bhack (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 18 April 2018 20:06 (eight years ago)
Drive-By Truckers probably have dozens.
Used To Be a Cop
― kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 18 April 2018 20:09 (eight years ago)
"Possum Kingdom" - seems pretty clear we're supposed to infer that all the proclamations of harmlessness, so help me Jesus, are not to be trusted. Not really "narrated" insofar as it's a second-person address but it feels close to the idea.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 18 April 2018 20:20 (eight years ago)
Richard Marx, “Hazard”. Promoted and marketed as such.
― breastcrawl, Wednesday, 18 April 2018 20:41 (eight years ago)
"Deacon Blues."
― fleetwood machiavellian (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 18 April 2018 21:11 (eight years ago)
Bruce Springsteen - Atlantic City
― kornrulez6969, Wednesday, 18 April 2018 21:27 (eight years ago)
Does a self-deluding narrator count? If so, "Bright Future in Sales."
― SlimAndSlam, Thursday, 19 April 2018 00:31 (eight years ago)
Basically all of Jim O’Rourke’s more song-oriented material?
― spastic heritage, Thursday, 19 April 2018 00:32 (eight years ago)
Oh yeah duh I don't know why I didn't think of that before. Yeah, everything.
― flappy bird, Thursday, 19 April 2018 01:06 (eight years ago)
Although some of the songs have obvious characters/stories, a lot of them sound like they're from the perspective of an all-seeing crank or something (Memory Lame, Insignificance, Ghost Ship in a Storm, Movie on the Way Down, Therefore I Am, Life Goes Off...)
― flappy bird, Thursday, 19 April 2018 01:07 (eight years ago)
lotsa paranoid and hopeful mountain goats songs
― lowercase (eric), Thursday, 19 April 2018 01:21 (eight years ago)
spastic OTM!
― after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Thursday, 19 April 2018 06:46 (eight years ago)
kornrulez, I've been thinking about that song lately. My wife suggested that the protagonist wants her dressed up so that they can have one last nice time. My reading is that he wants her dressed up so that she can be used as eye candy or sexual bait in a con or other potentially violent mob-flavored situation.
― as god is my waitress (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 20 April 2018 15:45 (eight years ago)
JOR really spells out his lyrical M.O. on “All Downhill from Here”—“Don't believe a word I sayNot that you would anywayI may be insincereBut it's all downhill from hereIf I seem a bit remoteYou'll feel better if you say I'm a misanthropeOr whatever floats your boatAs for me, I'd rather sink my ownEven though I'm here, you should feel all aloneMaybe the point of this you've just outgrownThere are names for me that are better knownJust draw a line and I'll add my own”
― spastic heritage, Friday, 20 April 2018 22:31 (eight years ago)
Surprised "Somebody I Used to Know" didn't come up
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 20 April 2018 22:57 (eight years ago)
I've always assumed that the protagonist of Peter Gabriel's "Big Time" is a fantasist:
My parties have all the big namesAnd I greet them with the widest smileTell them how my life is one big adventureAnd always they're amazed When I show them round my house, to my bedI had it made like a mountain rangeWith a snow white pillow for my big fat head
― Vast Halo, Friday, 20 April 2018 23:04 (eight years ago)
xp which one? Elliott Smith or Gotye?
― flappy bird, Friday, 20 April 2018 23:06 (eight years ago)
Gotye was the one I meant.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 20 April 2018 23:54 (eight years ago)