Big Star Member Percentage Breakdown

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My good friend (for now) just said that (and fucking get this) Alex Chilton had less to do with the greatness of Big Star than eveybody claims. I'm pretty much floored by this assertion. Here's his percentage breakdown of members:

Chris Bell - %45
Alex Chilton - 35%
Andy Hummell - 5%
Jody Stephens - 15%

Please weigh in with your thoughts. It's appreciated.

Handy Williams, Friday, 29 October 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree but only because I think I am the Cosmos is the equal of Sister Lovers and better than radio city and #1 record. actually come to think of it, I really don't care.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 29 October 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Ray Davies 9%
Yoko Ono 17%

cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 29 October 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

What of the Memphis and Jim Dickinson factors?

mottdeterre (mottdeterre), Friday, 29 October 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

chilton might agree i would say. he's oft referred to big star as having actually been chris bell's band.
and he has also seemed to think he finally found the stride of what at least HE was intending to do all along only with the recording of "like flies..." (which dickinson no like)
but... whatever. great band. some of the most important American music released in the last what 35 years. and they both def get huge prizes in my book.

duke huge, Friday, 29 October 2004 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex Chilton 50%
Jody Stephens 50%

Bumfluff, Friday, 29 October 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

wasn't the Rock City (the pre-Chilton BS prototype) album just reissued (maybe reissue is the wrong word, I think it had never been released originally) last year, including early versions of 3 songs from #1 Record? that gives some weight to the Chris Bell supporters. maybe the percentage of Chilton/Bell would be easier to calculate if you only evaluate the period in which they were both in the band.

Al (sitcom), Friday, 29 October 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, it's Bell 45%, Chilton 45%, Stephens 5%, Hummel 2%, Terry Manning 2%, John Fry 1%.

It was Bell's band. Bell was not quite capable of cooling out, which is what Chilton brought to the table. I don't really think "Cosmos" and the Bell recordings are the equal of the Big Star stuff myself. Bell didn't quite know what to do about the rhythm section.

And if Dickinson doesn't like "Flies on Sherbert" (I've never seen this opinion in print myself), he don't like himself, because that album is the logical (illogical) extension of his '72 "Dixie Fried," except far more fried.

But yeah, the Memphis factor is the main thing. Contrarian as it is--America's most contrarian, ornery town by a mile and the only worthwhile place in my home state of Tennessee--you can't never count 'em out. Never.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 30 October 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

CB was certainly a dominant force on their crappiest record.

Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Saturday, 30 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Jody is a girls name.

ALLMUSIC.COM (ddb), Saturday, 30 October 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Hummell ratings too low - "India Song" and "Way Out West" are two of their best ever

Paul (scifisoul), Saturday, 30 October 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"And if Dickinson doesn't like "Flies on Sherbert" (I've never seen this opinion in print myself), he don't like himself, because that album is the logical (illogical) extension of his '72 "Dixie Fried," except far more fried"

i mean he's on it as a matter of fact (at least the munster vinyl jammie i got) but i think i read him say that he felt like chilton only last had his whole thing specifically really together there on "3rd." i love "like flies" and afterwards, but icant say i disagree, particularly as "3rd" is probably my favorite record alltime..
love chris bell too tho dont get me wrong
still would rather listen to pretty much any of these people than most anything else out there

*and just got into sid selvidge too*

duke memphis, Saturday, 30 October 2004 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Donald Trump owns 12.5%

Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Saturday, 30 October 2004 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

dickinson produced and played piano on "sherbert." i bet he likes it fine. yeah, "third" is one of the half-dozen greatest '70s albums.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 30 October 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Eddie, where would you rate the early/mid 90s Memphis scene (Compulsive Gamblers, Impala, 68 Comeback, Oblivians) in the city's pantheon?

the apex of nadirs (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 30 October 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"Way Out West " yeahhh, "India Song" NNNOOOOOooo!!!!!!111

if by "ornery" you interminably drunk...
jim Dickinson plays fat, white man blues now. Somebody stop his sons
Drop everything, go see the Tearjerkers.

that is all


Superman dam fool (will), Saturday, 30 October 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

>Eddie, where would you rate the early/mid 90s Memphis scene (Compulsive Gamblers, Impala, 68 Comeback, Oblivians) in the city's pantheon?

Well, I used to see all of 'em when I lived there in the '90s. Monsieur Jeff Evans, I dunno, the '68 Comeback stuff always struck me as very smug shit, and you know, it's fun, no one could sing or anything. Impala did the ST for a movie in which I appreared for some vague reason, Mike McCarthy's fun but terminally inept "Teenage Tupelo" (I play a guy from Tupelo who gives up the kid for adoption, I think...). So, perfectly good instrumentals. Oblivions had their heart in the right place and their stuff w/ Mr. Quintron of New Orleans is fun. I guess the thing I found strange about Memphis music during this era was a certain inbred thing which of course is part of the Memphis ethos--it's about guitars and all that but me, I'm more of a pop fan myself. None of it ever really bowled me over, they were all into being such Memphians at the expense of actually trying to get something a bit more musical over to the People. Same thing w/ the Grifters, whose first few singles and several things after were amazing--"Corolla Hoist" and so forth. But again, they just seemed smug to me and they were almost always boring live. Memphis is so strange--in many ways that city is way ahead of everyone else, in many others it's so Middle American, lotsa bad local bands, people into prog-rock. Dylanologists everywhere, dumb old hippies into NRBQ. What a muddle-headed place and a place I dearly love.

Dickinson--well, yeah, there were times I saw him and Mud Boy and I thought, this is pretty good. Other times, well, just another bad local cover band. I used to see his sons back when they were doing something a bit less jam-band and Luther and Cody were amazing, Luther can really play man. But to what end in that stupid NMAS I have no idea, they've lost it. Jim D.'s last solo album "Free Beer" had some great moments and he's an entertaining guy with funny opinions, and he did produce two of the greatest Memphis Statements ever, the third Big Star album and the awesome "Sherbert." The Mud Boy track on the LP "Beale St. Saturday Night" is pretty great. I dunno, it's just hit-and-miss with that town's musical productions. Love the spirit, which pretty much doesn't exist anywhere else in the known universe, don't always think the actual excecution lives up to the "concept." That's rock and roll I guess.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 30 October 2004 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought the question was, what percentage of Big Star had breakdowns. (75 %?)

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Saturday, 30 October 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

and yeah, "India Song" and "Way Out West" are great, never understood why folks thought "India Song" was supposedly a "weak cut" on the great "#1 Record." Chris Bell wanted to be the Beatles--well, that's their George Harrison song.

Bell was never stable; Alex seems to have become fairly "normal" these days altho I miss the old crazed Chilton myself. Too many lame gigs at casinos with the Box Tops or something, one too many renditions of "Volare." But you know, I still think he's great. Most times I've seen him play, he really has tried to do something in-the-moment and cool, get something out there, and to do it so well with just his guitar is quite an achievement and one I respect immensely.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 30 October 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

. Same thing w/ the Grifters, whose first few singles and several things after were amazing--"Corolla Hoist" and so forth. But again, they just seemed smug to me and they were almost always boring live.

The Grifters came to my college town one night and invited some of us on stage with them. One friend of mine sat in a chair holding a keyboard while I did my imitation of Paul Westerberg falling on his back. Afterwards, we climbed up into the rafters and one of the bandmembers got me so fucking high that Seam's set seemed to only last ten minutes. I somehow made it down off of the ladder and passed out in the alley behind the club for four hours. I haven't seen the Grifters since.

But they sho' weren't smug. maybe only when they were in Memphis, but it seems like that happens to everyone once they get inside Mudville.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Sunday, 31 October 2004 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I asked Alex if Andy was still doing music. "Andy???"
like you'd have to be crazy to think the dude what wrote India Song and cowrote Way Out West was worth asking bout...

then again, Sister Lovers is my fave and Andy's not on it

Paul (scifisoul), Sunday, 31 October 2004 05:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Adam Duritz, 100%

jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 31 October 2004 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

naw, the grifters themselves were nice folks. their *performances* were kinda closed-in, better term. very non-swinging. static. memphis makes everyone crazy--they're a bit defensive about things there.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Sunday, 31 October 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

"But you know, I still think he's great. Most times I've seen him play, he really has tried to do something in-the-moment and cool, get something out there, and to do it so well with just his guitar is quite an achievement and one I respect immensely."

putting OTM here bores me but i will say i know what you mean. some of my rocknroller friends were bummed by him live, and i then had to wonder if they understood at all what this thing is they felt they identified with, being that they didnt respond to THAT
but ive been known to be a fascist

duke tenor, Sunday, 31 October 2004 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)

alex almost never plays anything really fast, he's got this deliberate thing going that "rockandroller" people don't always get. he's truly professional and also truly casual, and gives the songs about what they really deserve or just a touch more, which is actually a good thing to learn from his stuff. almost always there's a hidden warmth, esp in his guitar playing--i mean sure, alex can be boring and pro forma but how many "rockandrollers" appreciate just what a great guitarist he is, what a big, fat sound he gets from basically nothing? i think he's a lazy person and he's never quite fulfilled his potential, but it's almost as if he doesn't really need to...

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 1 November 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

alex hasn't made a record in years that's worth much of anything, but i'll see him live anytime. fantastic guitarist, as eddie says, and a great performer. a real pro, in the good way.

as for the percentage thing, i've always figured early big star was roughly 50/50 chris and alex, whereas "third" was 100 percent alex. in the 50/50 days, it's quite possible chris wrote most of any given song and alex wrote most of any other given song, but it was the kind of relationship where the two of 'em pretty clearly made each other better. there are two stupendous songs on the chris solo record ("cosmos" and "you and your sister") and a couple pretty good ones ("look up"), but it doesn't have the energy of a big star record. i've always assumed alex was the one who brought the energy.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 1 November 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Look up
look up

57 7th (calstars), Monday, 1 November 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't realize how much of a presence Bell was on #1 until I heard
'You and Your Sister.' I love you Liz Morton.

57 7th (calstars), Monday, 1 November 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex rocks Chris Christian rocks

Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 1 November 2004 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

The Grifters were always extraordinarily spotty live, a fact which they seemed to more or less cop to. I dunno, though, I saw what I thought was a very good show at the old 9:30 in D.C. after I moved north, and my friend Steve hated it so much he basically refused to discuss it on the ride home.

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Monday, 1 November 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Big Star is really about Alex Chilton impersonating Chris Bell and then both finding out that Alex was better at it than Chris

Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 1 November 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

>Big Star is really about Alex Chilton impersonating Chris Bell and then both finding out that Alex was better at it than Chris

that's a big part of it. first he impersonated dan penn and made hits, later bell, nothing, and then later, a whole lot of people, and even less.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 1 November 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

The Grifters were always extraordinarily spotty live

that dude had such a good guitar sound i didn't care what the hell else was going on onstage.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 1 November 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Eddie, we may or may not have met before. I had bit parts in Damselvis and The Sore Losers, cooked for the cast/crew for a few days during the Sore Losers shoot, and used to be pretty good chums with JMM in the 80s to the mid 90s. I was lucky enough to make it to a few Gamblers and Impala shows back then.

the apex of nadirs (Rock Hardy), Monday, 1 November 2004 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

JMM worked at the mailbox place I used to use when I lived in Mempho. What the hell ever happened to him?

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Monday, 1 November 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

He's still plugging away. He had something at the Memphis Indie Film Festival last week -- I guess it was "Broad Daylight." I'm not sure if it was the premiere or not.

the apex of nadirs (Rock Hardy), Monday, 1 November 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Nice to know. The movies of his I saw weren't that great, but he was one of the few people I met in Memphis who was actually nice to me right away, and he seemed really enthusiastic about what he was doing--another quality that seemed kinda thin on the ground, locally. No offense.

Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Monday, 1 November 2004 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

could be, apex! i lived there from '91 to '00, when i moved to boulder, co.

JMM is a great guy. I know what he's after in his films, but don't know or care if he actually gets it. He really believes. I mean, D'lana is worth filming any way, right? He's a true Memphian, don't care about received wisdom one bit. I did a little dialog for him for his "Elvis Meets the Beatles" film, right at the first where Elvis talks to Nixon in the words of Charles Manson. It's somewhat gratifying to know that people all over the weirdfilm world have seen my cameo turn in "Teenage Tupelo." "We're gonna adopt a kid...it ain't no big damn deal..."

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Mike's a great guy. The things that make him lovable and make him occasionally infuriating are the same — basically, his complete lack of self-doubt and his ability to promote himself and his work. I've been trying to figure out for years now why I've fallen out of touch with him, and I think it's because the last few times we met up, it was because one of us was trying to take advantage of the other's skills and contacts. This was a lot different than the early days — Distemper House, the Rockroaches, etc — when we were obviously destined to become friends because we were two of the only three nerds in Northeast Mississippi who loved the same comics and music and movies. Anyway, I guess I like remembering the days when we were dumb but enthusiastic college students more than the days when every meetup involved both of us trying to figure out how the other could help our careers.

And yes, D'lana is definitely worth filming. At least she was back during the Sore Losers shoot. As one of the shadowy FBI agents, I was privileged to witness her magnificence in person. Aiiieee, Papi! I haven't seen any pictures of her since then.

the apex of nadirs (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, D'lana, she's a beautiful woman still, and quite nice. I wish Mike would get a budget and do something really good. I hear he's trying to raise money, something like a million bucks? Did I read this in the Memphis Flyer a while back? I've only been down there once since 2000, I wish I lived there again...sometimes...

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I think he told me once that whenever he finds an investor willing to spend some real money, Cadavera will happen.

the apex of nadirs (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I work with one of the guys from Impala (who also had a bit part in TT) and the cinematographer for both Teenage Tupelo and Sore Losers (who I'm sure would be quick to tell you isn't entirely indicative of his craft). Anyway, I do think JMM is currently working on something larger in scope. As far as specifics, your guess is as good as mine. I know there was a fundraiser at Earnestine & Hazels recently.

Will (will), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

cinemtog was Darren Ipema, wasn't it? Great guy. He did wonders with the footage in "Tupelo." The scopitone bit should've really been the basis for the whole movie, that was really good. The score by Impala is very good.

This thread has gotten so derailed...well, all things Memphis, I suppose. I know JMM didn't like hippies or the Beatles, but I think he appreciated Big Star. Anyway, I think I read somewhere there was a bit of controversy over how JMM was raising money or something? I think that must've been in the story about the E&H fundraiser. Shit, if I had the money I'd probably help him out, but I don't. He inspires such belief in a way. I guess now I need to see if I can e-mail him, we traded a few e-mails a couple years ago, but I haven't seen him or talked to him since I moved outta Mempho four years ago.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

The venerable Mr. Ipema it is. There was definitely some controversy on the Goner board surrounding the JMM fundraiser. Pretty silly for the most part.

And to get things back on track, Chilton, Stephens and a couple of Posies (Stringfellow, Auer?) recently finished recording at Ardent as Big Star. A friend of mine helped engineer and couldn't say enough good things about the material. (I suspect he has some rough mixes in his possesion but he's like Fort Knox with that shit.)

Will (will), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, Will, I've been hearing about Chilton/Jody/Auer/Stringfellow recording there on Madison. I understand they were in the studio this spring, April-ish. I haven't checked with any of the Big Star geeks at various message boards but last I heard they didn't have a label--Ardent is now Christian music pretty much if I recall rightly. Hope it's better than that "Hot Thing" song, which was pretty lame. Maybe Alex will have been revealed to have actually tried a little bit when it does appear--every EP and CD he's released since '85 has had something good on it, and I quite like "Man Called Destruction" myself, that's mostly really good. So I remain a somewhat skeptical fan.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 2 November 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)


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