The whole panoply of Western popular music in ten tracks

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I'm teaching at the moment in a university in China, and I've got two classes of Maritime students, 65 in each class, most of whom come from very poor peasant backgrounds, and during a discussion this morning it turned out that they hadn't heard of any Western music apart from The Beatles and Victoria Beckham (sic) - apart, that is from a couple of the more worldly ones, who mentioned Westlife and 911. Oh, and Elton John. So, I promised them that in next week's class I'd bring in a few tracks for them to listen to.

Now, I could just play them some of my favourite songs, of course, and whatever I end up choosing will probably seem pretty random to anyone else. Obviously, I'm not going to be too ambitious and try and educate them about the entire history of rock and roll, soul music and techno etc, but I would actually like to give them a more general idea of what kind of things people of my generation (I'm 32) have been listening to.

So I'm partly looking for suggestions, but I'm also just interested in hearing about what other people would find it good to play in this situation.

What would you choose and why?

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 05:45 (twenty-one years ago)


So far I'm thinking about Common People and the Ace of Spades..

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 05:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I would think about it in terms of sonic textures and styles rather than lyrical content, for starters, and also because China Chinese tend to approach cultural artefacts in a holistic rather than an analytical sense.

1. Sam Cooke - "You send me"
2. Sly and the Family Stone - "Dance to the music"
3. Beatles - "When I'm 64"
4. James Brown - "It's a man's world"
5. Metallica - "Enter sandman"
6. Aaliyah - "Rock the boat"
7. Cyndi Lauper - "Time after time"
8. 50 Cent - "In da club"
9. Orbital - "Halcyon"
10. Krome and Time - "Ganjaman"

Because I think you need to play them chirpy, melodic music (Beatles). You need upbeat, stompy, danceable (Sly Stone). You need epic and grandiose (Metallica). You need swaggering (50 cent) you need sexual (Aaliyah) you need James Brown, because he's James Brown, you need melancholy pop (Lauper) you need smooooth (Cooke) you need delicate and electronic (Orbital) and you need percussive, driving dance music (Krome and Time).

Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 29 November 2004 06:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure Chinese peasants are really going to "get" the nuances of "Common People"

Ace of Spades though...you're on the right track.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 29 November 2004 06:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I was gonna suggest "In Da Club," v. universal party jam i think.

You should throw in some disco track though!

Daft Punk - "Digital Love," I bet the kids would love that. Or "One More Time."

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 29 November 2004 06:13 (twenty-one years ago)

That's an interesting list, you're right about the lyrics not being particularly important. In terms of textures, I'm not going to play them anything too 'polished', because it seems like in the predominant view of Western music here the Backstreets Boys are seen as pretty edgy! So maybe Cyndi Lauper might be a bit too much like what they've already heard.

Yes, I'm not too sure about Common People myself, the concept of dressing down for status wouldn't mean much to them I guess. I'm from Sheffield, so I'd like to play something 'local', it seemed like an obvious choice.

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 06:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Then play 'em something by Human League or ABC instead.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 November 2004 06:26 (twenty-one years ago)

who are 911?

duke wha, Monday, 29 November 2004 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

They're like this noise band from Ireland who only sing about dead firemen.

Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 29 November 2004 07:05 (twenty-one years ago)

beach boys - good vibrations
beatles - she loves you
elvis - love me tender
abba - mamma mia
michael jackson - beat it
prince - purple rain
poison - talk dirty to me
bon jovi- living on a prayer
madonna - holiday
kylie - i should be so lucky

paul wilson-bradley, Monday, 29 November 2004 07:10 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost
fine, then who are westlife?

duke fine, Monday, 29 November 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Depends on if you want contemporary only, rock and roll era only, or all of 20th century. If the third is true, I'd want to include some blues, tin-pan alley, maybe elvis, etc.

Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 29 November 2004 07:20 (twenty-one years ago)

joy division - transmission

because it builds so deliberately. perhaps thence could be gleaned some semblance of what it is to rock

james brown - sex machine

to see if it really is that intuitive

hip hop seems like the most daunting one to pick really, maybe just blaze bleak and free??!!??!

jake b. (cerybut), Monday, 29 November 2004 08:46 (twenty-one years ago)


james brown - sex machine

to see if it really is that intuitive

I like this suggestion. As for Elvis, the blues and the like, I'm loathe to play things that I wouldn't really listen to myself, but at the same time I'm aware that I should just be giving them an idea of what's popular and letting them choose for themselves. I mean, I could easily get away with telling them that Momus soundtracks Bud Ice commercials and people all over the English speaking world traditionally get married to the sound of MF Doom, but I'd also like to give them a chance to hear something they might have a chance of hearing again in the future.

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 09:28 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, if my limited experience of marketing to china is anything to go by, they'll be most interested in hearing "the latest thing" and won't give a shit about "the classics", so going modern is probably best...

Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 29 November 2004 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)


Hence my wanting to play Pulp, I don't think they're gonna be too impressed by a Christmas number 1 from 1981. Also, Pulp have a bit to say about Sheffield, which might catch their attention as they love to hear anything about hometowns, even when you repeatedly point out that yours is a shithole and you haven't lived there since you were 18. Mind you, a lot of the places they call home probably make Barnsley look like Shangri-La.

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 09:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Without nitpicking on the track choices themselves, I find it weird that none of you guys have included any pre-rock tracks.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 November 2004 10:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I've Got You Under My Skin - Frank Sinatra (prime example of Tin Pan Alley pre-rock)

Johnny B. Goode - Chuck Berry (since rock was a black invention, I prefer including a black artist rather than Elvis Presley as an example of 50s rock. Also, Berry was better, and he wrote his own songs)

I Want To Hold Your Hand - The Beatles (sort of the ultimate melting together of "black" rawness and "white" melody/harmony, and as such, important in the history of rock)

Respect - Aretha Franklin (Typical example of 60s soul, chosen instead of Motown as this is more "pure" R&B so to say, and as such a better example of the genre (even though Motown was musically better))

A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procol Harum (as I didn't want to include The Beatles twice, this one is my chosen example of rock trying harder to become "arty" towards the end of the 60s)

Anarchy In The UK - Sex Pistols (most famous example of a punk track)

Staying Alive - Bee Gees (disco)

The Message - Grandmaster Flash (rap)

Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana (the rise of alternative rock as a mainstream phenomenon, also made sure that the guitar was kept still alive and kicking as an important popular music instrument)

Firestarter - The Prodigy (Almost important to find a "representative" electronica track, but electronica/dance is too important not to include here)


10 tracks isn't a lot, and I had to skip synthpop and glamrock. I also considered including some Robert Johnson, but decided it wasn't "popular music" enough measured in actual popularity at the time.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 November 2004 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

And I now realise I didn't even have space to include Rolling Stones, which may not be a disaster considering we are speaking of popular music in general, not just rock'n'roll.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 November 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Swap Rolling Stones in for the Beatles then - not only are they infinitely better, but rwillmsen does state that they are more aware of the Beatles than other western artists, so it seems a shame to waste a track on them.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Rolling Stones would never replace The Beatles in exemplifying the most important event in 20th century popular music history - the merging of "white" melody and harmony with "black" groove and rawness. Rolling Stones were too "black" musically to fit into that.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Regardless, they know who the Beatles are - I wonder if some jazz would be a good idea?

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)


I don't really like jazz though.

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, okay. Showtunes?

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)


Well to be honest I'm really just interested in contemporary stuff, I think if I started including Ol' Blu Eyes and Billie Holiday and the like I'd have a much wider and more difficult choice.

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

ABBA, "Waterloo"
The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations"
James Brown, "Cold Sweat"
Patsy Cline, "Crazy"
John Coltrane, "Giant Steps"
Blind Willie Johnson, "Dark Was the Night, Cold Was the Ground"
Missy 'Misdemeanor' Elliott "Get Ur Freak On"
Johnny Pacheco & Celia Cruz, "Oriza Eh"
Wayne Smith, "Under Me Sleng Teng"
Donna Summer, "I Feel Love"

This was compiled before I realized you wanted more contemporary stuff. Back to the drawing board.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you should include some DEVO!

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Contemporary stuff representative of several different genres:

Hey Ya - Outkast
Sing - Travis
Independent Woman - Destiny's Child
Back In Black - AC/DC
Music - Madonna
The Real Slim Shady - Eminem
I Believe In a Thing Called Love - The Darkness
Don't Let Me Get Me - Pink
My Love - Westlife
Freak Like Me - Sugababes

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 November 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)


I've just got round to compiling my own provisional list, I really like some of the suggestions that have been made so far though.

Pulp - Sorted out for Es and whizz. I already mentioned Pulp, and I'm thinking about this one 'cos I once did a class on it before with some other students from various countries and they loved it. Maybe the drugs thing is a bit dicey, but it's not like I'm gonna be distributing the lyrics with free sample kits or anything. They might be interested in hearing about Glastonbury and the like.

Underworld - Born Slippy. I've never got bored of hearing this, and I want to be able to talk about each track with a certain amount of enthusiasm. I though that the Prodigy, which somebody suggested earlier, is too similar to the music they bombard themselves with on Wargasmcraft 8 or whatever. Orbital might be a bit soporific on first hearing.

Something by Eminem, or actually maybe 50 Cent, 'cos I'm not at all comfortable with introducing them to hiphop through a white artist.

Smells like teen spririt, they may already have heard it, but then again maybe not. As for the Sex Pistols, I think that talking about the 1970s or 1870s to them will mean just as little, so this will do instead.

Having said that, I want to include something by the Beatles, if only because they might just think of them as the Westlife of their day, and I want to play them something like It's all too much, Helter Skelter or Happiness is a warm gun to challenge that notion.

Jammin' by Bob Marley. I always think that he is the singlemost universally popular musician on the planet, and they should really have heard of him. Not that it's their fault if they haven't of course.

Hey Ya by Outkast, just really poppy, shiny and confident, I'd be amazed if they didn't catch on to this straight away.

Unfinished Sympathy by Massive Attack, just like the Outkast one this should grab their attention and I don't think they will have heard anything like it before.

Hyperballad by Bjork. I want to get accross to them just a little bit of the strangeness and exoticism of pop, while at the same tme bearing in mind that they're gonna have to like it straight off.

Which means that Devo is out.

I'm aware that some of this might come accross as patronising, but living here you realise just how thin is people's cultural diet. You just hear the same supermarket techno played at eyebleeding volume, or the same powerballads on endless repeat play. They really don't have any notion of the alternatives that are out there, I just want to open their ears a little! Hopefully, if it goes well, they'll be interested in hearing more, in which case I can bring in slightly more challenging stuff.

So, waddya think of the list? I'll welcome suggestions, the classes aren't 'til next Monday.

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

The list I would say it OK, but maybe a bit too 90s centred. If you are to have a contemporary taster, you should include more stuff from the 00s than just Outkast and Eminem or 50 Cent.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)


Yeah, I'd noticed that, but for someone of my age I'm quite proud that it's not just Erasure, ABC and the Pet Shop Boys!

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Sure, but I doubt that Massive Attack, Björk and Pulp are a lot more relevant to today's kids than ABC, Erasure or Pet Shop Boys are.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I really like the "Good Vibrations" and "Crazy" selections

Sonny, Ah!!1 (Sonny A.), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, let go of the Pulp choice. Just. Let go.

David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)


It's either that or Animal by Def Leppard.

rwillmsen (rwillmsen), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Chewing Gum by Annie?

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

'Fuck It' by Eamon?

B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Monday, 29 November 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a friend who lives in a mid-sized town in China, and she was able to find Medulla fairly easily. I'm not sure how popular Bjork is in China, but it sounds like she's not entirely unfamiliar.

Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Monday, 29 November 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

if you're going to play hip-hop, why settle for something like Eminem or 50 Cent? Play them some fucking Wu-Tang

Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Monday, 29 November 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

you should take in a mr. bungle album

King Kobra (King Kobra), Monday, 29 November 2004 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)


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