Cro-Mags, classic or dud

The "Krishna thing" WAS there at the beginning of hardcore as was Rastafari. 80's NYHC from the start was neo-straight edge and ripe for Krishna and Rasta. John Joseph was into Krishna by late 1981 or early 1982, probably around the time of Hardcore's official "arrivial"; the release of the ROIR Bad Brains cassette. One could also in those days see HR from the Bad Brains walking around the East Village with his "Moses-like" wooden walking staff.

vg

the guy wouldn't shut up, and we were eventually escorted out of the park by NYC cops because his unceasing dialogue lumbered on well beyond the park curfew.

I think part of the Cro Mags's (dare I say) charm is that they are blunt, uneducated, bitter assholes. They totally rejected the artification of hardcore, they weren't about writing witty or funny lyrics, these guys were about testoterone fuled me vs. the world metallic rage, that was it. They probably have the most enduring legacy of any hardcore band. You don't see many hardcore bands these days who tote the influence of Black Flag or Bad Brains... they see a lot of that as dated and more "punk" than hardcore ought to be. I'm not sure what I'm getting at, but it straight pisses me off that so many music journalists who don't exclusively write about aggressive music write off the Cro Mags and most of the early NYHC scene just because they were not intellectual or PC or even that diverse. Sheer aggression baby.

OTFM, it's a Spin magazinification of punk history. and it's profoundly irritating.

and by the way, that has nothing to do with them being "anti-intellectual" or "non-PC" or whatever the fuck excuses you want to give. they were just boring. they did things that hundreds of bands had done thousands of times better before. And Spin RAN a feature on them, in case you're interested. Which pissed me off. Because they sucked.

OTM. In much the same way I wasn't about to ring GG Allin to see if he wanted to come over for a spot of tea, I had no problem enjoying the music of the Cro-Mags, safe in the knowledge that they were slackjawed zinjanthropi who'd sooner punch my sorry, haired head in the jaw than give me the time of day. Who cares? Age of Quarrel is a great record ("We Gotta Know" alone is better than the entirety of Kix's already very sorry catalog, Xhuxkles!)

Agreed on everything else by them post-John Joseph being worthless though.

Gotta go with xhuxh here, actually, in that I never cared for "scenes" as much as I did about individual bands. That said, being a New Yorker, it was hard to escape hearing about the Cro-Mags, and I'm sorry Chuck doesn't like them, but I thought they were hugely enjoyable, albeit in a scary way (scary for those of us who had hair, that is).

Cite some bands from Indiana and British Columbia! I can't think of any (wait, were DOA from Vancouver?)

NYHC more or less sucked before the Cro-Mags debut

Oh hey now, let's not dis my beloved KRAUT!!!!

vancouver: young canadians, modernettes, pointed sticks, doa (get one *vancouver complication.)

"sheer aggression baby": get one antiseen, plus one rancid vat (hey, there's some "politically correct intellectuals" for you!)

still playing baldhead hardcore in 1986: how pathetic can you get?

kix: pushed many an envelope. trust me.

Pains me to admit it but Boston probably had the better hardcore scene in the early eighties with Mission Of Burma, The F.U's, SSD, DYS, Siege and Deep Wound.

But heck, hardcore wasn't even the best skinhead music! Oi was!! (And it was scarier too.) (Also funnier and catchier.) (And it rocked more.)

xx-post

Bands like this were a dime-a-dozen in the Lehigh Valley while I was working for the entertainment section of the local newspaper. They were all roughly as shitty as the Cro-Mags, some slightly less, some slightly more, usually less tattoo'd. Quite naturally, they were fond of collecting in crowds of about 200-250 at the Airport Music Hangar to fight. The strip club next door -- Irv's BYOB -- routinely drew more. At the end of the night, the two squad cars patrolling the lot would not be picking up the drunks coming out of Irv's, but the pointless brawlers coming out of the Music Hangar, who would continue to fight in the parking lot.

Let's see -- who were the poor poor man's Cro-Mags who were the tops of these bills? Murphy's Law, Agnostic Front, Mucky Pup.

Ah, so I have, Chuck. Figures. I was an English major, alas.

(ok, i'm outta this thread for good today. But i couldn't resist)

Anyway, when I hear the word "hardcore," I think of what it meant when I was in high school (Westfield, NJ class of 1990 because I repeated freshman year). And that means Gorilla Biscuits, Judge, Sick Of It All, Warzone, Breakdown, Cro-Mags, Killing Time, Leeway, etc., etc., etc. All that other stuff is/was just "punk," and shall ever be thus in my brain.

-- pdf (newyorkisno...), July 7th, 2005.

i told y'all it was a generational thing! FWIW whenever i think of "hardcore" i think of the straight edge kids in high school with earth crisis tatoos.

If he lasts ten years. People with tatoos of this nature on their faces are basically either frankly psychotic or plagued by severe underlying mental problems. Just like the occasional young man geek I see in the LA Times about once every two years -- described as having an obscenity or slightly less tattoo'd on his face, anything, really, that says, "Look at me, I am a troublesome and brainless fuck and I want you to know it."

The rider that comes with the story: They either just came out of prison or are waiting to permanently be sent into prison. Reminds of the scene in "Papillon," when McQueen and Hoffman stumble upon the guy with his eyes and upper face covered with a tattoo. They're clearly frightened. The guys asks, "Do you like my tatoo?" Not wishing to touch him off, they say, yes, it's wonderful. The guy, a recluse living by himself on an island, responds wryly, "I do, too. But I was drunk at the time."

The only exceptions are hermits with "fuck you" money or trust funds.

Listened to some Cro-Mags today for this first time in years. Yeah, they were slackjawed meatheads, but damn if Age of Quarrel still doesn't pack a fuckin' wallop.

Was watching the tale end of the American Hardcore movie on cable and a couple Cro-Mags were on, or maybe it was just Harley. Anyway, mostly all he talked about was being street and beating people up, often colleagues from Boston because they were uppity.

Between that and the Village Voice thing on Bloodclot, that's the legacy -- beatings administered for just about anything.

I guess that's just how one should deal with quarreling.

But yeah.....no think tank, they.

I got carried away today.

Awesome post Alex - so does this mean Age of Quarrel HAS been remastered and reissued? On vinyl?

Dunno about vinyl, but yes on the first count.

"Yeah, they were slackjawed meatheads"

doug holland was NOT a slackjawed meathead. and neither was parris mayhew. being a doug holland/kraut fan was the original reason why i wanted to hear cro mags in the first place.

one of the ironic things about chuck's posts on this thread - specifically where he says that there were so many bands that did what the cro mags did only earlier and better - is that members of the cro mags DID do it earlier and better. doug in kraut and harley with the stimulators. two great (and pioneering) u.s. punk bands. (though kraut were obviously more successful and influential)

i still dig age of quarrel, but i remember hearing it for the first time and thinking that every song on it would have been so much greater if the bad brains had done them instead! (especially we gotta know which i still love to death but which is really just a clunky bad brains homage with a killer intro)

and i wonder if chuck would give cro mags points for being the only krisna metal band (that i know of) to sample "buffalo gals" in a song. (something i didn't even know until i was on youtube one night. i never really listened to anything after the 2nd album.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/07/nyregion/stabbing-at-webster-hall-shuts-down-concert.html

http://www.boweryboogie.com/2012/07/more-photos-from-cro-mags-stabbing-at-webster-hall/

http://cdn10.boweryboogie.com/content/uploads/2012/07/20120706-2046401-620x465.jpg

hardcore

He does look kinda caveman in that pic.

bath salts?

NYC hardcore and all that surrounded it, always reminded me of flotsam closer to home, that surrounded shit like the Exploited.

Dunderheads

A former member of the hard-core punk band the Cro-Mags attacked two of the group’s current members with a hunting knife in a dressing room before a show at Webster Hall yesterday — biting one and slashing both.

The band was about to take the stage about 8:15 p.m. when tattooed rocker Harley Flanagan, 42, barreled through the East Village venue’s VIP section toward the Cro-Mags’ dressing room, sending nearly 30 guests on the balcony into a frenzy, law enforcement sources and witnesses said.

“Someone was yelling, ‘Get his hands, get his hands, he’s got a knife!’ ” witness Dave Gustav said. “Everything went nuts.”

Several beefy security guards rushed to contain Flanagan, who seemed about to boil over before he entered the East Village venue.

“I talked to him outside minutes before it happened and I knew something was going to go down,” a witness said, according to the Horns Up Rocks website. “He was like a lunatic outside. Next thing I know he’s in the VIP area stabbing people!”

Flanagan, the band’s former bassist and founder, suffered a broken leg by the time security finally pinned him down, witnesses said. Cops handcuffed him to a chair and took him out.

“People started booing him and throwing stuff at him,” eyewitness Justin Brannan said. “His hands were handcuffed but he still gave everyone the finger.”
William Berario, 45, was slashed above the eye and bitten on his cheek. Michael Couls, 33, — the band’s current bassist, who is known in the hardcore world as “The Gook” — was cut on his arm and stomach.

Both members of Cro-Mags were taken to Bellevue Hospital with non life-threatening wounds.

Flanagan, a New York native, was also taken to the hospital. He was hit with two counts of 2nd degree assault and weapons charges.

The melee forced the East 11th Street concert venue to cancel the show, which was part of the CBGB Festival and also featured the band Sick of It All.
“You can all thank Harley Flanagan for ruining the night for everyone,” Cro-Mags lead singer John Joseph McGowan told the crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUb9MPhhDec

read about this on adriens twitter last night.

Btw No way harley is 42!!

chill dude

Harley's likely a year or two older. Huge scandal.

“His hands were handcuffed but he still gave everyone the finger.”

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2Lu5LaivAIE/TzH1jpATErI/AAAAAAAAHeU/SRZnW8cwEp4/s1600/Harley7.jpg

why is the new bass player called 'the gook' what's goin on

am i right in understanding that he was not part of the band at the time of the stabbing?

you're saying The Gook was in the dressing room ready to play the show, Flanagan burst in with a knife, The Gook was quickly fired from the band and then stabbed, then rushed to the hospital and reinstated in time to be called "the current bassist" in the story?

Btw No way harley is 42!!

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, July 7, 2012 8:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he prolly is - he was ridiculously young when he started playing in bands etc

you're saying The Gook was in the dressing room ready to play the show, Flanagan burst in with a knife, The Gook was quickly fired from the band and then stabbed, then rushed to the hospital and reinstated in time to be called "the current bassist" in the story?

Heh. I meant Flanagan. Obviously I was a little unclear.

Boy is that guy gonna feel like a dick in about ten years.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, July 7, 2005 10:57 PM (7 years ago)

I wonder whatever became of Earth Crisis face tattoos guy.

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/07/08/news/web_photos/08.1n016.CroMags1--300x300.jpg

the EMT in those pics is an old friend of mine

Harley's side of the story...

http://www.nynatives.com/feature/exclusive-harley-flanagan-webster-hall-attack

I don't think I'm buying Harley's story.

John Joseph's rebuttal:

http://gunshyassassin.com/news/cro-mags-john-joseph-harley-flanagans-been-watching-too-many-sci-fi-movies/

I know the American thing is never to believe the accused and worship the "victims", but John's story is changing an awful lot...

I know you've been waiting with bated breath:

Bassist Harley Flanagan has reached a settlement with singer John Joseph and drummer Mackie Jayson regarding ownership of the Cro-Mags name. Flanagan will now perform under the name Cro-Mags while Joseph and Jayson will perform as Cro-Mags “JM.”

See below for Harley’s full statement:

"After many years of confusion, rumor and dispute, I, John Joseph and Mackie Jayson have reached a settlement designed to avoid any further confusion about the Cro-Mags mark and band. I, as the founder of the band and bass player on all Cro-Mags albums (Age of Quarrel, Best Wishes, Alpha Omega, Near Death Experience and Revenge) will be performing as Cro-Mags going forward and have exclusive ownership of the name as such in all commercial purposes world-wide. There will be a three month transition during which time I will be performing as Cro-Mags and John and Mackie’s shows may still be advertised as Cro-Mags as they finalize their name change to CRO-MAGS “JM”. During this transition period, to confirm which band you want to see, please check on our websites or social media pages. As of August 1, 2019, all shows under the CRO-MAGS name (on its own) will feature me, and all of John and Mackie’s shows will be under the name CRO-MAGS “JM”. Thanks for your patience as we wrap this up. Now that we have come to an agreement, I look forward to continuing to deliver music from the entire Cro-Mags catalogue the fans have come to know and love, be able to perform live without confusion and continue to create new music with the distinctive sound that is Cro-Mags."

well that's all cleared up then

I, as the founder of the band and bass player on all Cro-Mags albums (Age of Quarrel, Best Wishes, Alpha Omega, Near Death Experience and Revenge the good one and the other four)