Rock Drummers - Who are the best?

Chuck Eddy chose Ashlee Simpson's Autobiography in his Eddytor's Dozen last week, so I gave it a listen and...

???

also Brann Dailor, Mick Fleetwood and Bill Ward

And I love the Cramps (and yes, the drumming!) but uh, Nick Knox is really not that great a drummer. I mean he's on the Meg White level for technical flair.

also, yes, Bonham, Shelley, Fleetwood, dude from Deerhoof, etc. etc

I'd second Steve Shelley of Sonic Youth and the Crucifucks.

I'd also nominate these underrated drummers:

Bon von Wheelie of Girl Trouble
George Hurley of Minutemen
Mitch Mitchell of the Jimi Hendrix Experience
Clyde "the Funky Drummer" Stubblefield
Brendan Canty of Fugazi
Brad Nelson of Black-Eyed Snakes
Dan Bitney of the Tar Babies and Tortoise
Topper Headon of the Clash
Heather of Beat Happening
Mo Tucker of the Velvet Underground
Ringo Starr of you know who

That Giblet guy from the Wire was good cos of his minimal kit

And I second/third Mr Hurley cos of his ability to not get taffled in his bad hair, circa 'three way tie for last'

Wasn't that drmski from DRI pretty good too.

Actually, seriously, Ben Daughtry of Squirrel Bait sounded like a good drummer to me.
I am not a drummer. Of drums.

Sadly it was them Killdozer and that strange man that I blame for dragging my ex GF to Madison for. I told her it had a lake that was nice for walks.

Saw Sebadoh in Madison with......oh fu, somebody please help me here... they were like a pre cursor to Lightning Bolt. I can't remember a thing about them other than the bassist had a 'Super Dad' tee and the drummer had an 'Old Millwaukee' 3.4% tee.

Shut up.

Rock drummers.

Neil Peart.

Those Cougar tracks are fine, but rock's BEST drummer of the last couple decades?!?!
I had to go digging around, and Aronoff's website lists his discography from year to year -- Since those JCM albums it's been a litany of trainwrecks, peppered with the occasional hit (including ones by Hilary Duff, Anastacia, Avril Lavigne, and Betty Dylan this year).
I'm not saying the guy's a bad drummer, but I MUST take exception to this bit of hyperbole.

-- Taxi Dancing in the Soft Prison (fiestasandsiestas[nospam...), September 21st, 2004.

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"But then you've got the specific noting of Kenny Aranoff, who's like the ULTIMATE session guy with no real
standout identity beyond just solid drumming"
Yer crazy. He totally has an identity. He's one of the few rock session drummers that you could pick out of a lineup 9 times out of 10 when you hear a record.

-- scott seward (skotro...), September 21st, 2004.

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is that the guy who wears those bad Bono-shades?
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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he kinda flipped out when the Smashing Pumpkins invited him on board.
-- manthony m1cc1o (anthonyisrigh...), September 21st, 2004.

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If anything, He's TOO distinctive to be the ultimate session guy. The ultimate session guy just disappears into whatever is being played.
-- scott seward (skotro...), September 21st, 2004.

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b-b-b-but - the ultimate session drummer is Hal Blaine! And he's instantly recognizable as well.
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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The Smashing Pumpkins era was when he got super buff and wore black gloves when he played and those Bono glasses with the yellow lenses.
I couldn't pick the guy out of a lineup sound-wise, though. And, again, though I don't think he has any particular identity, and I think he's a fine drummer, Chuck's claim was "rock's best drummer of the past couple decades"!!! Which is insane!!!!!

-- Taxi Dancing in the Soft Prison (fiestasandsiestas[nospam...), September 21st, 2004.

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yeah well, chuck has a tendency to send the hyperbole-meter deep into the red.
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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"R.O.C.K. In The U.S.A.!"
-- scott seward (skotro...), September 21st, 2004.

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Hyperbole my ass. I mean, who the heck is *better* then? (Only guy I can think of is Stephen Adler on the first GnR album. But I'd be happy to hear other nominations. Except Grohl, which is a joke. If a drummer doesn't have any dance in him, that's a pretty huge mark against him in my book.) (I will admit, though, that the past couple decades have not been especially good one for rock drumming. In the '70s, Aranoff would have had *tons* of competition.)
-- chuck (cedd...), September 21st, 2004.

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Well, actually, by "past couple decades" I really mean "past quarter century," I guess. (Which would include the opening beats of "Tom Sawyer", too, I suppose, but it's not like Peart has made me care all that much otherwise in recent history.)
-- chuck (cedd...), September 21st, 2004.

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I admit it's been a sad era for drummers in general. I nominate, uh, Ken Nasta!
I'll have to think about this, I don't mentally catalog the names of drummers like I do other stuff.

-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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You know, I did think the Probot album needed to be more danceable.
-- My name is Kenny (bogususe...), September 21st, 2004.

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the only session drummer type guy I can think of who's done a similar variety of stuff is Joey Waronker... on the other end of the spectrum I'd nominate Joe Preston (especially since he started playing with High on Fire). I really like the Dirtbombs drummers, but maybe that's cuz there's two of them (neither of whose name I can recall). Andrew WK's drummer is fantastic.
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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How do you feel about Steve Sheeley Chuck? (Only drummer I can think of the name of that I like,so don't be too harsh)
-- Kevin Gilchrist (KevinGil14...), September 21st, 2004.

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oh man Shelley's the shiznit. and very versatile. why didn't I think of that? Duh!
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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>How do you feel about Steve Sheeley Chuck? <
Nowhere near as good as Richard Edson or Bob Bert.

>You know, I did think the Probot album needed to be more danceable.<

Just generally sucking less might have been nice as well:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0418/smith.php

-- chuck (cedd...), September 21st, 2004.

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You mean Edson as a drummer, or for his performance in the remake of Starsky and Hutch?
-- Kevin Gilchrist (KevinGil14...), September 21st, 2004.

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chuck has there ever been a thread where you DIDN'T post a link to yr rag?
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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Although if we're talking about SY's drummers, Sclavunos is great on the new Nick Cave (assuming he's drumming on it?)
-- Kevin Gilchrist (KevinGil14...), September 21st, 2004.

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I mean, look, there is probably somebody out there, in Los Fabulosos Cadillacs or Chico Science's Nacao Zumbi or whatever, who can totally wipe the floor with Aranoff. OK? But I don't know their name. Aranoff wins simply by virtue of making R.O.C.K. in U.S.A. swing (and using the whole damn kit to do it) when nearly everybody else was afraid to.
Shakey, stop whining about my links. That review is great.

-- chuck (cedd...), September 21st, 2004.

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can I whine about those damn ads for that John Waters movie? They're kinda ecchh.
-- manthony m1cc1o (anthonyisrigh...), September 21st, 2004.

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Yeah, that's okay. Those grossed me out too, Anthony.
-- chuck (cedd...), September 21st, 2004.

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i think Todd Trainer from Shellac is a great drummer, in a robotic John Bonham sorta way.
-- M@tt He1geson (mat...), September 21st, 2004.

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I actually prefered "Roland", in Big Black! But hey, I'm old school.
-- chuck (cedd...), September 21st, 2004.

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it's weird that that review takes Grohl to task for engaging in a "vanity venture" when I got the impression he just wanted to help out a bunch of people he admired. It's not like Lemmy, Wino, Cronos, et al have been realy busy raking in the cash lately. And just by making that album, Grohl was essentially just handing the label a bunch of cash so they can stay afloat and put out even better stuff. I haven't heard a note of it so I won't debate its musical merits, but slagging off Grohl's motives for doing it seems stupid.
also, I'm perplexed by chuck's insistence that rock drummers SWING. Who are you, Duke Ellington? I don't understand how the essentially jazz concept of swing has any place in rock whatsoever....

-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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I mean, how many great Goatsnake, Sun 0)))), etc. releases are gonna essentially be bankrolled by Probot? I see this as a good thing...
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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you didn't give roland much love in Stairway To Hell, Chuck.
-- manthony m1cc1o (anthonyisrigh...), September 21st, 2004.

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oh god please don't mention his book...
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 21st, 2004.

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He meant Edson in "Super Mario Brothers: The Movie" I think.
I suppose we're coming at this from different angles -- I'm getting the impression that by "best drummer" Chuck's talking more about how it "grooves" and "feels" rather than technical ability and originality.

So, sure, this comes down to how we're defining best, but I think a strong argument could be made in favor of any of these guys (a few of which will raise red flags because of the shitty bands they play(ed) in, but they are all incredibly gifted):

~ Zigaboo Modeliste
~ Pete Thomas
~ Damon Che
~ Chris Penne
~ Jimmy Chamberlain
~ Carter Beauford (yes, yes, I know, but still, he's incredible)
~ Brendan Canty
~ Stewart Copeland
~ Zach Hill
~ Danny Carey

-- Taxi Dancing in the Soft Prison (fiestasandsiestas[nospam...), September 21st, 2004.

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I think "Taxi" is coming at this the wrong way but I'd like Chuck to clarify the "swing" comment as well.
-- djdee2005 (ddrak...), September 22nd, 2004.

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chuck's probably busy looking up the appropriate Village Voice column to link in order to explain himself.
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 22nd, 2004.

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Oh, I'm definitely coming at it the wrong way; I always do --
but that comment, as a bit of a drummer myself, just drove me nuts --
and http://www.kennyaronoff.com/ didn't help matters.
-- Taxi Dancing in the Soft Prison (fiestasandsiestas[nospam...), September 22nd, 2004.

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I've done it many times, DJdee. Here and elsewhere. Search functions are widely available (though the one at the Voice website kinda stinks, much to Shakey's chagrin when he can't think of anything else to complain about ad infinitum.) Anyway, I am fond of 16th notes. And when rock stopped being dance music, it went way the fuck downhill. (Which isn't to say *all* the rock I like swings. Scandinavian goth metal sure doesn't. But we're talking about "best" here.) As for technical ability and originality, I care what you *do* with them.
-- chuck (cedd...), September 22nd, 2004.

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first of all, no self-respecting grown man calls himself "Kenny". Secondly 16th notes /= "swing".
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), September 22nd, 2004.

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Although I have just discovered he has his own line of signature cowbells, which you can't fuck with.
-- Taxi Dancing in the Soft Prison (fiestasandsiestas[nospam...), September 22nd, 2004.

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first of all, no self-respecting grown man calls himself "Kenny".
Hey, fuck you.

-- My name is Kenny (bogususe...), September 22nd, 2004.

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I'm not a musician, so I can't really dissect who I feel are the best drummers. But here are ones I like and who awe me.
Obviously, Neil Peart.

Lars Ulrich -- say what you want about the recording, but the drumming on St. Anger is fucking incredible.

?uestlove, who brings musicality to confining hip-hop beats and backs up all those good soul writers.

Keith Moon -- No joke, first time I heard "Goin' Mobile" I flipped. How the hell did guy do that?

Aranoff -- He really is a beast. The most underrated of Cougar/Mellencamp's records is the one they did with Junior Vasquez. Plus, he's the sole savior of Smashing Pumkins' Adore, imho. And, yeah, Hurts So Good is pretty good, too.

Chuck is right. The 70s were filled with great drumming. I like the dude from Grand Funk Railroad, even.

Dunno his name, but anybody remember the Breakbeat Era? That was Roni Size and DJ Die's live band d-n-b project. Saw them live during CMJ in '99, and that was a mindblower for sure.

Kinda like the drumming on DBT's records, too.

-- Chris O. (oconnorscrib...), September 22nd, 2004.

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And Chuck, Dave Grohl really does rule!
-- Chris O. (oconnorscrib...), September 22nd, 2004.

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So Chuck Eddy is the Momus of ILM, right?
No, Momus is the Jerry Saltz of ILM.

-- Momus (nic...), September 22nd, 2004.

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Although if we're talking about SY's drummers, Sclavunos is great on the new Nick Cave (assuming he's drumming on it?)
I haven't seen the new record, but historically Wydler is the drummer, Sclavunos is the percussionist

-- kit brash (kitbras...), September 22nd, 2004.

loving the futureheads robotic stlye of drumming!

fIREHOSE has some great drumming to go with that bass.

Hot Snakes. check the marching snare rolls and floor tom on the new album. how tight is that!

http://www.ollografik.com/magma/des_mots.htm
http://www.ollografik.com/magma/ka2.htm

Joey Baron's stuff in Naked City.

Also, i second Bill Berry.

and Steve Shelly. not just because he's a bad ass, but because he'll take the time to talk to two starstruck 16 year olds for fifteen minutes who happened get back stage at a Sonic Youth gig.

Mick Avory
Ginger Baker
Martin Chambers

martin...fucking...atkins.

I vote for Erin Tate (Minus The Bear, Kill Sadie, etc), Tony Thompson, Robert Wyatt, Phil Rudd, Phil Collins, John Weathers, Billy Cobham, Ken Coomer (more for Clockhammer than for Wilco), Bill Rieflin, and a bunch of other people already mentioned.

Is he? Wow. I didn't even know there still is a Megadeth. I will have to check it out. Is he touring with them? That guy is versatile. He just awes other drummers. I am talking great drummers here bow to him in awe at clinics.

I would also like to nominate Paul Cook. I like to think that Jonesy and Cookie had a similar musical relationship to that of Keith and Charlie.

Jim McCarty of the Yardbirds doesn't always get enough love, maybe because he is compared to Bonham or something, I don't know.

Oh yeah, Jim Gordon, for "You're So Vain" if nothing else.

Finally, I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but, while I like Steve Shelley is Sonic Youth, I've heard him in some other contexts where he was supposed to provide a simple backbeat and I was not convinced.

hahaha im an ass

about ten million New Orleans drummers

Howard Grimes

Topper Headon
Levon Helm
Charlie Watts (duh)
Keith Moon (duh)

That Giblet guy from the Wire was good cos of his minimal kit

Robert Gotobed (Gray)? When I saw them last year the kit seemed pretty standard size.

OTM then.

John Maher's kind of like a robot drummer with a third hand that's doing crazy shit with a spanner.

You are all hereby advised to check out the interview with Tommy and Marky Ramone at Perfect Sound Forever- an extended version of the one that appeared in the Voice.

I wish I could find a copy of that Jerry Nolan thing from the Voice years ago where he talks about seeing Elvis in Hawaii, among other things- best memoir evah.

The drummer for the Black Keys is better.

And how has this thread gotten this far without a mention of Tatsuya Yoshida?

Seriously, I really can't see how somebody can say that Meg White is a good rock drummer. The poor girl can't keep time half the time and when she attempts even the simplest fill she fails miserably. I mean, Charlie Watts is not actually known for hitting millions of things at blazing speed but he is a metronome.

Moe Tucker (Velvets)
Gina Schock (Go-Go's)
Georgia Hubley (Yo La)

I'll add Mick Fleetwood, Jimmy Chambers (Pretenders), and Steve Morris (New Order).

add:

Jody Stephens
Bobby Caldwell
Steve Gadd
Jeff Porcaro
Dave Lombardo

Picture thread: Your favorite drummer